Quote from: Athelstane on 02/10/2021 06:22 pmI shudder to think what this would have cost on a Delta IV Heavy. Better part of a billion dollars. Delta IV Heavy is $350M. Ask Tory.
I shudder to think what this would have cost on a Delta IV Heavy. Better part of a billion dollars.
Quote from: Steven Pietrobon on 02/11/2021 08:57 amQuote from: Athelstane on 02/10/2021 06:22 pmI shudder to think what this would have cost on a Delta IV Heavy. Better part of a billion dollars. Delta IV Heavy is $350M. Ask Tory.And Falcon Heavy is $150M. Ask Elon. See how helpful these kinds of statements are? (As in; not).
The SPP spacecraft will launch aboard a Delta IV Heavy rocket from Space Launch Complex 37 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida. Launch is targeted for July 31, 2018, at the opening of a 20-day launch period. The total contract award amount for launch services is $389.1 million.
NASA spokesperson says Falcon Heavy will launch the Gateway's PPE & HALO modules into an initial Earth orbit, and PPE thrusters will send it to orbit the moon.Parking orbit parameters under review & Falcon Heavy capability hinges on whether boosters are recovered or expended.
Quote from: Stephen ClarkNASA spokesperson says Falcon Heavy will launch the Gateway's PPE & HALO modules into an initial Earth orbit, and PPE thrusters will send it to orbit the moon.Parking orbit parameters under review & Falcon Heavy capability hinges on whether boosters are recovered or expended.https://twitter.com/StephenClark1/status/1359973708744581123
I have it from several sources that PPE/HALO indeed requires vertical integration. From the same sources I also heard that only part of the costs for VIF and long fairing were amortized thru NSSL-67. The majority of the rest will be amortized thru the PPE/HALO launch. Particularly VIF and related VI GSE turn out to be expensive due to the DoD/NSS requirements for these structures and systems.SpaceX has known for at least two years that DoD was not the only customer requriring vertical payload integration for Falcon Heavy. So, the cost for VIF, long fairing and other VI-related GSE (such as a new payload transporter) is split over DoD and other government launches (such as the PPE/HALO launch for NASA).Although it was mentioned that PPE-to-HALO integration will take place at the launchbase, it does NOT mean that this happens in the VIF. PPE and HALO are integrated into a single payload in a separate SpaceX facility at CCAFS. The integrated PPE/HALO stack will then be transported to LC-39A in upright (vertical) position. Next, it is hoisted to the top level of the VIF and will then be integrated on top of Falcon Heavy.
Quote from: woods170 on 02/11/2021 07:00 amI have it from several sources that PPE/HALO indeed requires vertical integration. From the same sources I also heard that only part of the costs for VIF and long fairing were amortized thru NSSL-67. The majority of the rest will be amortized thru the PPE/HALO launch. Particularly VIF and related VI GSE turn out to be expensive due to the DoD/NSS requirements for these structures and systems.SpaceX has known for at least two years that DoD was not the only customer requriring vertical payload integration for Falcon Heavy. So, the cost for VIF, long fairing and other VI-related GSE (such as a new payload transporter) is split over DoD and other government launches (such as the PPE/HALO launch for NASA).Although it was mentioned that PPE-to-HALO integration will take place at the launchbase, it does NOT mean that this happens in the VIF. PPE and HALO are integrated into a single payload in a separate SpaceX facility at CCAFS. The integrated PPE/HALO stack will then be transported to LC-39A in upright (vertical) position. Next, it is hoisted to the top level of the VIF and will then be integrated on top of Falcon Heavy.It's awfully convenient how every time a SpaceX contract comes in higher than expected people magic up a reason that it's not SpaceX's fault with literally zero evidence beside vague rumors and supposition.
SpaceX is however charging the government for the cost of an extended payload fairing, upgrades to the company’s West Coast launch pad at Vandenberg Air Force in California, and a vertical integration facility required for NRO missions. The price “reflects mostly the infrastructure,” Shotwell said. Shotwell noted that the Aug. 7 contract does not completely cover all infrastructure expenses and other costs will be included in future Phase 2 bids.
Quote from: jadebenn on 02/12/2021 06:50 amQuote from: woods170 on 02/11/2021 07:00 amI have it from several sources that PPE/HALO indeed requires vertical integration. From the same sources I also heard that only part of the costs for VIF and long fairing were amortized thru NSSL-67. The majority of the rest will be amortized thru the PPE/HALO launch. Particularly VIF and related VI GSE turn out to be expensive due to the DoD/NSS requirements for these structures and systems.SpaceX has known for at least two years that DoD was not the only customer requriring vertical payload integration for Falcon Heavy. So, the cost for VIF, long fairing and other VI-related GSE (such as a new payload transporter) is split over DoD and other government launches (such as the PPE/HALO launch for NASA).Although it was mentioned that PPE-to-HALO integration will take place at the launchbase, it does NOT mean that this happens in the VIF. PPE and HALO are integrated into a single payload in a separate SpaceX facility at CCAFS. The integrated PPE/HALO stack will then be transported to LC-39A in upright (vertical) position. Next, it is hoisted to the top level of the VIF and will then be integrated on top of Falcon Heavy.It's awfully convenient how every time a SpaceX contract comes in higher than expected people magic up a reason that it's not SpaceX's fault with literally zero evidence beside vague rumors and supposition.The DoD/NSS have specific requirements that they should pay for. What part of that is not clear to you?
Quote from: jadebenn on 02/12/2021 06:50 amQuote from: woods170 on 02/11/2021 07:00 amI have it from several sources that PPE/HALO indeed requires vertical integration. From the same sources I also heard that only part of the costs for VIF and long fairing were amortized thru NSSL-67. The majority of the rest will be amortized thru the PPE/HALO launch. Particularly VIF and related VI GSE turn out to be expensive due to the DoD/NSS requirements for these structures and systems.SpaceX has known for at least two years that DoD was not the only customer requriring vertical payload integration for Falcon Heavy. So, the cost for VIF, long fairing and other VI-related GSE (such as a new payload transporter) is split over DoD and other government launches (such as the PPE/HALO launch for NASA).Although it was mentioned that PPE-to-HALO integration will take place at the launchbase, it does NOT mean that this happens in the VIF. PPE and HALO are integrated into a single payload in a separate SpaceX facility at CCAFS. The integrated PPE/HALO stack will then be transported to LC-39A in upright (vertical) position. Next, it is hoisted to the top level of the VIF and will then be integrated on top of Falcon Heavy.It's awfully convenient how every time a SpaceX contract comes in higher than expected people magic up a reason that it's not SpaceX's fault with literally zero evidence beside vague rumors and supposition.[snark]It is awfully convenient how every time, that SLS has become more expensive than originally projected, people magic up a reason it's not NASA's fault, with literally zero evidence beside vague rumors and supposition.(That is: until OIG comes out with a report confirming it actually IS NASA's fault, which has been happening fairly regularly in the last 5 years)[/snark]@Jadebenn: don't give me this crap. SLS amazing people are as bad as SpaceX amazing people. I'm neither of those and I just report what sources at SpaceX tell me.Also, you would be well adviced to do some research into the prices SpaceX announces on its website. Had you done so you would have known that the listed $150 million for fully expendable FH is for a stock (= reference) comsat payload going to a stock (= reference) orbit.The minute the customer wants a customized launch, the price goes up with every item added or changed from a stock launch.In case of PPE/HALO the customer (NASA) wants all kinds of new stuff: a (currently) non-existing long fairing, vertical integration of the payload and hiring a SpaceX integration facility (for final payload integration) for six months. Customized data services. Customized quality control. Increased insight into SpaceX activities regarding this launch. Etc, etc, etc. I've seen the list, and it is long. NASA wants a boatload of stuff extra on top of a stock FH launch service. Do you actually expect SpaceX to charge ZERO for all those extras? Not gonna happen. The customer will be charged fully for all those extras. No different from ULA charging NASA fully for all customer-required extras on top of a stock launch.
Why is NASA planning on payload integration (i.e assembly of sub-components) at a facility operated by the launch service provider? Why isn't this activity taking place somewhere like e.g. the Space Station Processing Facility? Or perhaps more suited for vertical payloads, the VAB?Isn't it because at these firesale prices for services, having SpaceX do the job ends up being less expensive?
Quote from: sdsds on 02/12/2021 08:17 amWhy is NASA planning on payload integration (i.e assembly of sub-components) at a facility operated by the launch service provider? Why isn't this activity taking place somewhere like e.g. the Space Station Processing Facility? Or perhaps more suited for vertical payloads, the VAB?Isn't it because at these firesale prices for services, having SpaceX do the job ends up being less expensive?Did NASA announce where the payload integration would be done?
Although it was mentioned that PPE-to-HALO integration will take place at the launchbase, it does NOT mean that this happens in the VIF. PPE and HALO are integrated into a single payload in a separate SpaceX facility at CCAFS. The integrated PPE/HALO stack will then be transported to LC-39A in upright (vertical) position. Next, it is hoisted to the top level of the VIF and will then be integrated on top of Falcon Heavy.
The payload stack wouldn't be assembled in the VIF, that's not what it's for. It will be stacked at one of several payload processing facilities in the area. The SpaceX facility is one of the options. NASA has started using SpaceX payload processing facilities for some missions but not all.
Guessing: This vertical stacking of a larger (I assume) stack, and preparation for encapsulation in the new larger fairing, may require a NEW payload processing facility.
Quote from: gongora on 02/13/2021 03:48 pmThe payload stack wouldn't be assembled in the VIF, that's not what it's for. It will be stacked at one of several payload processing facilities in the area. The SpaceX facility is one of the options. NASA has started using SpaceX payload processing facilities for some missions but not all.Guessing: This vertical stacking of a larger (I assume) stack, and preparation for encapsulation in the new larger fairing, may require a NEW payload processing facility. Most satellites arrive nearly ready to go and have a much shorter time (one month?) taking up space in SX's PPF.The PPF is a cleanroom.... with all normal facilities... crane, offices, workshop, computing, ... etcThis new PPF I guess will be needed, will likely be used for the DoD contracts... A separate facility would make it easier to manage security clearance / secrecy etc... and customer tweaking/operations. This new facility should be away from the launch pads so work is not interrupted by launches. The lower cadence of FH, works well with customers likely (as in this case) to book it for longer.
