Author Topic: Europe Wants Its Own Alternative to Elon Musk’s Starlink Network  (Read 27811 times)

Offline su27k

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https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/1417442539137867790

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EU Commission @defis_eu issues RFP to NewSpace co's for ideas on future secure comms/QKD/brdbnd constellation. Sept 10 bid deadline; 2 winners to get EUR 1.4M ($1.65M) each for 6-month study, to include satellite, launch cost estimates. @DigitalEU @esa https://bit.ly/3BwKpPA

Offline SweetWater

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https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/1417442539137867790

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EU Commission @defis_eu issues RFP to NewSpace co's for ideas on future secure comms/QKD/brdbnd constellation. Sept 10 bid deadline; 2 winners to get EUR 1.4M ($1.65M) each for 6-month study, to include satellite, launch cost estimates. @DigitalEU @esa https://bit.ly/3BwKpPA

Does anyone have a ballpark estimate on the number of Starlink satellites that will be on orbit by March 2022 (when this 6-month study would end, if awarded on Sept 10)?

Offline su27k

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Europe’s satellite dreams risk being lost in space

Quote from: telegraph
There could be another thorn in the Commission’s plan. While Breton has disowned Eutelsat and its investment in OneWeb, the UK firm has been eyeing Europe’s plans.

The operator’s biggest backer, Indian billionaire Sunil Mittal of Bharti Global, is understood to have written to the European Commission expressing an interest in collaborating on the EU constellation.

Project sources believe the EU wants a “sovereign” capability and any involvement from OneWeb is likely to be “difficult”.

Offline RoadWithoutEnd

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"European politicians and industrial elites want an alternative to Starlink that they can control, even if it comes at a hefty premium to European consumers."

That's the real headline.
Walk the road without end, and all tomorrows unfold like music.

Offline Rebel44

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IMO, the whole thing is a dumb PowerPoint project that will never actually be built.

Offline spacenut

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Without reusable F9 rockets and future reusable Starships, building an alternative network will be quite expensive.  Launch costs from other launch providers would have to come down. 

Starlink just has a very good head start, by several years. 

Offline edzieba

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Without reusable F9 rockets and future reusable Starships, building an alternative network will be quite expensive.  Launch costs from other launch providers would have to come down.
It does solve the chicken-and-egg issue for developing a re-usable Ariane: a reusable Ariane that launches a handful of times per year cannot support the development costs and ongoing support (e.g. you can't employ a standing army to manufacture more vehicles when they only need to make one every few years, but if you fire them and close the facility then you have no fallback on loss of a vehicle) without ballooning launch costs to match expendable vehicles, but you can't launch tens to hundreds of times per year to bring the costs down if there is no demand, and there is no demand if the costs are not brought down. A constellation manufactures your own demand for a high flight rate, which justifies a re-usable launcher.

Offline libra

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Without reusable F9 rockets and future reusable Starships, building an alternative network will be quite expensive.  Launch costs from other launch providers would have to come down.
It does solve the chicken-and-egg issue for developing a re-usable Ariane: a reusable Ariane that launches a handful of times per year cannot support the development costs and ongoing support (e.g. you can't employ a standing army to manufacture more vehicles when they only need to make one every few years, but if you fire them and close the facility then you have no fallback on loss of a vehicle) without ballooning launch costs to match expendable vehicles, but you can't launch tens to hundreds of times per year to bring the costs down if there is no demand, and there is no demand if the costs are not brought down. A constellation manufactures your own demand for a high flight rate, which justifies a re-usable launcher.

Musk is creating his own "reusability flight rate killer app" with Starlink. 42 000 satellites to launch - plenty enough to keep F9 and Starship busy for a very long time.

Offline geekesq

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Musk is creating his own "reusability flight rate killer app" with Starlink. 42 000 satellites to launch - plenty enough to keep F9 and Starship busy for a very long time.
Plus there will be a constant need to replace satellites as they fail or become obsolete.
So there will never be an end to Starlink launches, until (if ever) something better supercedes the entire LEO satcom paradigm.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Without reusable F9 rockets and future reusable Starships, building an alternative network will be quite expensive.  Launch costs from other launch providers would have to come down. 
....


Then Europe will have to book passage on Starships to deployed their LEO constellation. Which will reduce the cost and tme needed deploying a LEO constellation. There is really no affordable alternate launch options.

Offline daedalus1

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The best the EU can do is give the UK unrestricted access to Galileo in exchange for unrestricted access to Oneweb. That way the whole of Europe wins.

Offline edzieba

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The best the EU can do is give the UK unrestricted access to Galileo in exchange for unrestricted access to Oneweb. That way the whole of Europe wins.
Like with launch vehicles, that's a sovereignty rather than a technical issue (same reason why Galileo exists in the first place rather than 'just use GPS', why EDRS exists rather than 'just use TDRS', why CRS exists rather than 'just use Soyuz', etc).
« Last Edit: 08/10/2021 10:30 am by edzieba »

Offline daedalus1

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The best the EU can do is give the UK unrestricted access to Galileo in exchange for unrestricted access to Oneweb. That way the whole of Europe wins.
Like with launch vehicles, that's a sovereignty rather than a technical issue (same reason why Galileo exists in the first place rather than 'just use GPS', why EDRS exists rather than 'just use TDRS', why CRS exists rather than 'just use Soyuz', etc).

Not sure that you are agreeing with me or not.
Nevertheless it is a European win/win with little extra cost. UK doesn't have to reinvest in GPS system and EU doesn't have to launch thousands of broadband satellites on a not so cheap Ariane 6.

Offline edzieba

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The reason the UK has been excluded from the PRS segment is a sovereignty issue, not a technical one. Likewise, the reason the EU wants a domestically owned and operated communications network is a sovereignty requirement, not a technical one.

Offline daedalus1

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The reason the UK has been excluded from the PRS segment is a sovereignty issue, not a technical one. Likewise, the reason the EU wants a domestically owned and operated communications network is a sovereignty requirement, not a technical one.

Yes I'm aware of that (I didn't say it was a technical issue, only a cost issue). But there is a mutual advantage of you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours, so to speak, in the interests of European independence.

Offline su27k

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EU Commission, facing budget, schedule issues, willing to consider buying stake in non-EU broadband constellation

Quote from: spaceintelreport.com
The European Commission, heading off the possibility that it will have neither the funds nor the expertise to manage a constellation of broadband/quantum communications satellites, has asked industry to assess less-costly alternatives.

Options the Commission will assess include purchasing a minority stake in a non-EU constellation already being built. This capacity would later be supplemented by EU infrastructure.

Offline JCRM

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Offline su27k

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Europe awards study contract for disruptive satellite constellation ideas

Quote from: SpaceNews
A consortium of more than 20 European space companies said Dec. 8 it won a six-month contract to study disruptive ideas for Europe’s planned satellite broadband constellation.

The contract from the European Commission is worth 1.4 million euros ($1.6 million) and was awarded to New Symphonie, a consortium led by market intelligence firm Euroconsult and French satellite surveillance startup Unseenlabs.

New Symphonie aims to investigate and recommend the most optimal infrastructure for Europe’s sovereign multi-orbit connectivity vision, drawing on new business models and capabilities in the emerging space ecosystem.

Offline alanr74

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Looks like they have 2 successful bids now. I can't imagine how quickly they can go from this stage to having a network up and running.
https://www.satellitetoday.com/government-military/2021/12/13/two-consortiums-to-explore-future-european-satellite-constellation/
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Explore Future European Satellite Constellation

By Rachel Jewett | December 13, 2021
Europe
European Union EU FlagThe European Commission has selected two consortiums of European space companies for initial study on a future European satellite constellation. A consortium called New Symphonie, led by Unseenlabs and Euroconsult, was announced Dec. 8. A second consortium, UN:IO, led by Mynaric, Isar Aerospace, and Reflex Aerospace was announced Monday.

 
It seems dead in the water now the UK is talking about gen2 OneWeb satellites being built in the UK by 2024, and airbus & oneweb moving into military markets in Europe. 


« Last Edit: 12/17/2021 05:38 pm by alanr74 »

Offline JCRM

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The UK builds a lot of satellites, it's one of their strengths.

This scheme allows EU counties to pump money into their companies, which will result in them having a more competitive spacecraft capability.

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