Europe Wants Its Own Alternative to Elon Musk’s Starlink Network

[woods170]

Europe, most particularly France, is in the throes of a populist "sovereignty" psychodrama.
<snip>

Sovereighnty is something the EU has been promoting for a long time (many decades in fact). It is what led to Ariane series of rockets. It's what led to EUMETSAT and the Meteosat series of weather satellites. It's what lead to the Galileo navigation constellation. It's what led to European development of comsats, starting with OTS and Olympus. It's what lead to the Copernicus programs Sentinel series of Earth observation satellites.

There is no "psychodrama" here. It is simply the EU and ESA making sure they are not totally dependent on others such as the USA or Russia or China.

Being totally dependent on others never has been a good thing.

The EU wanting its own version of Starlink is no different from the USA wanting its own capability to fly astronauts to the ISS or China wanting its own capability to robotically explore Mars.

"Psychodrama"? Hardly....

[Darkseraph]

Constellations like this might give more incentive for Europe to develop a reusable launch vehicle in this decade. Europe's argument that reusable vehicles don't make sense for less than a dozen launches a year makes sense with conventional payloads we've been used to: GEO commsats, a few Science missions. Europe doesn't currently have as many payloads to spread launch costs among as the US does, such as DoD missions and crew delivery.  But large constellations for many different applications changes this.

Hopefully they speed up efforts in this and bring Ariane 7 forward, as large amounts of cheap launch capacity from multiple providers will accelerate human presence and economic activity in space, creating a virtuous cycle.

[woods170]

Internet for isolated communities? In Europe?
We are 3 times more densly populated than the USA.

Please don't waste my money on that and better spend that money on rolling out Fibre optics faster

Don't assume  average density = density everywhere. Europe has large, thinly populated areas in e.g. Sweden, Norway, Finland, Spain, France. Isolated communities on a large number of small islands.

Spain for example has put in place very strong, pluripartisan fiber-tending programs, including through rural or non-profitable areas, that make its data ground infrastructure the most developed in Europe (more FTTH than France, Italy, Germany and UK combined, at 80.4% of connected homes, the perspective to reach >90% in one year's time, and 100% including rural communities in 2025), one of the best in the world - in spite of the large swaths of territory that are sparsely populated and the off-mainland archipielagos.

It would be against its interests and investments to strongly support maintenance-intenstive, non-resilient megaconstellations instead of the more robust ground technology it has become a forefront player on. 'Of course, if Spain can do this, most mid-sized countries with a reasonably large economy can too.

A good review (in Spanish): https://www.xataka.com/otros/estado-conexion-fibra-espana-2020-cobertura-actual-planes-operadoras-para-proximos-anos

Emphasis mine.

Yes, they probably could.
Question is: will they?
Answer: likely not IMO.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that Spanish national priorities (fiber for everyone) are similar to, say, Dutch or Polish national priorities.

Many of the EU programs are voluntary. Those EU member states who participate must fund it and will enjoy the benefits. Those EU member states who decline to participate are not obliged to fund it, but they will also not benefit from it.

[freddo411]

This is disappointing. Starlink is inherently global and  could serve  Europe extremely well.

Yes, but the euros would be heading to the US instead of Europe and it would be at the whim of US political interference. The EU can easily afford its own system (its GDP is only 9% less than the US) so that it too can provide a global system that would also serve the US extremely well. :-)

Any European system would probably arrive about 30 years after starlink, and would never arrive unless some other party built one first

I’m extremely happy to send my dollars to Europe to buy Italian cheese, French wine, German engineered cars and so forth.  Trade is good for everybody

[Phil Stooke]

And you just can't have too many mega-constellations.

[M.E.T.]

This is the launch business all over again, with maybe two thirds of the market inaccessible to the cheapest operator simply because each major power wants its own launcher, however inefficient.

Starlink could be the cheapest service by a long shot and yet still have to deal with inefficient competitors propped up by hapless taxpayer Pounds/Euros, long after they should have been taken off life support (looking at you, Oneweb).

Sigh.

[Asteroza]

EU still has the fig leaf of needing a true global megaconstellation, rather than something focusing on the continental european latitudes and longitudes, due to overseas territories all over the world. If it was just continental europe, you could cheat with interesting orbits to get the constellation numbers down.

[RonM]

And you just can't have too many mega-constellations.

I don't know, it could get crowded up there.

[high road]

Is wanting something because the neighbors have it the way things are now? Maybe be motivated by what your populace needs and not by the need to prove something.

That's a funny thing to say on a spaceflight forum.

Looking forward to ESA astronomers complaining about European megaconstellations corrupting their data, and bad communication when satellites are on a collision course

[eeergo]

Is wanting something because the neighbors have it the way things are now? Maybe be motivated by what your populace needs and not by the need to prove something.

That's a funny thing to say on a spaceflight forum.

Looking forward to ESA astronomers complaining about European megaconstellations corrupting their data, and bad communication when satellites are on a collision course

Difficult to complain when there isn't even a conceptual design available. You'll find my comment about what I think of megaconstellation systems a few posts upthread and in other areas.

[high road]

I was referring to strong anti-megaconstellation feelings that are apparently quite widespread among ESA-astronomers according to a friend of a friend there, and ESA's very public calling out of SpaceX not being responsive when ESA had to move one of their satellites to avoid a collision with a SpaceX satellite. 

[woods170]

I was referring to strong anti-megaconstellation feelings that are apparently quite widespread among ESA-astronomers according to a friend of a friend there, and ESA's very public calling out of SpaceX not being responsive when ESA had to move one of their satellites to avoid a collision with a SpaceX satellite. 

To be fair, it is not just European and ESA astronomers who have strong anti-megaconstellation feelings. Some of the most vocal opponents are among USA astronomers.

[saliva_sweet]

This is not about connecting hermits and robinsons with fast internet. It's about strategic/military capabilities. Once the intersattellite link tech is up we are headed for a unipolar world. The US is close to capability to dogfight with UAV-s on the other side of the globe and missiles can be directly piloted. Also google earth with live video instead of static imagery. EU doesn't like it and cost is not a factor.

[DreamyPickle]

It is not clear why the EU needs its own LEO satellite constellation when it seems that multiple commercial options will exist. It seems more like a prestige project than a necessity.

If they foresee a situation in which US, UK and China would all deny them satellite services then just what is the EU planning?

[Frogstar_Robot]

In the past, the marker for national prestige in the civilian technology field was a national airline, or a nuclear power plant. Now it is a presence in the space sector, whether launch vehicle, space station, GNSS, satcoms etc.

It might not make sense from an engineering POV to re-invent the wheel, but that is not the purpose for these prestige projects.

[high road]

I was referring to strong anti-megaconstellation feelings that are apparently quite widespread among ESA-astronomers according to a friend of a friend there, and ESA's very public calling out of SpaceX not being responsive when ESA had to move one of their satellites to avoid a collision with a SpaceX satellite. 

To be fair, it is not just European and ESA astronomers who have strong anti-megaconstellation feelings. Some of the most vocal opponents are among USA astronomers.

I know. But up to this point, most of their ire has been focused on the private sector. Now it'll be pretty much their colleagues, getting funding from the same goverments and leveraging ESA services.

[edzieba]

and ESA's very public calling out of SpaceX not being responsive when ESA had to move one of their satellites to avoid a collision with a SpaceX satellite. 

You mean the ESA thanking SpaceX for their response*, while simultaneously using it as a point to emphasise the need for a global platform for communicating conjunctions and collaborating on avoidance (rather than the current non-mechanism of 'erm, send them an email, or maybe a fax?')?
The ESA only pointed the finger of blame within the minds of tabloid headline writers, not in reality.

*

Contact with Starlink early in the process allowed ESA to take conflict-free action later, knowing the second spacecraft would remain where models expected it to be. [...] “No one was at fault here, but this example does show the urgent need for proper space traffic management, with clear communication protocols and more automation,”

[su27k]

European space and digital players to study build of EU’s satellite-based connectivity system

Brussels, 23 December 2020 - The European Commission has selected a consortium of European satellite manufacturers, operators and service providers, telco operators and launch service providers to study the design, development and launch of a European-owned space-based communication system.

The study will assess the feasibility of a new initiative aiming to strengthen European digital sovereignty and provide secure connectivity for citizens, commercial enterprises and public institutions as well as providing global coverage for rural and ‘not-spot’ areas. Complementing Copernicus and Galileo, this new EU flagship programme, once given the green light, would fully exploit the synergies of the technological potential akin to the Digital and Space industries. The contract value of the year-long feasibility study amounts to € 7.1 million.

The European space-based connectivity system, advocated by Commissioner Breton, is set to provide secure communication services to the EU and its Member States as well as broadband connectivity for European citizens, companies and mobility sectors, strengthening EU digital sovereignty. It will build upon  the European Union’s GOVSATCOM programme of pooling and sharing satellite services, and will ensure a high level of reliability, resilience and security not currently available in the market; it will also leverage the EuroQCI initiative that promotes innovative quantum scamgraphy technology.

More specifically, the study phase awarded by the European Commission will consolidate the user and mission requirements and provide a preliminary architectural design and service provision concept, as well as associated budgetary estimates. A Public-Private Partnership (PPP) scheme will be considered and assessed during this phase.

The study will look at how the space-based system could enhance and connect to current and future critical  infrastructures, including terrestrial networks, strengthening EU capability to access the cloud and providing digital services in an independent and secure way, which is essential for building confidence in the digital economy and ensuring European strategic autonomy and resilience.

It will leverage and strengthen the role of satellites in the 5G ecosystem, assessing interoperability whilst also taking into account the evolution towards upcoming 6G technologies.

This European sovereign infrastructure is set to benefit a large range of sectors, including road and maritime transport, air traffic and control, autonomous vehicle development as well as many Internet of Things (IoT) applications. It is intended to offer enhanced security in the transmission and storage of information and data supporting the needs of various users such as governmental agencies, finance & banking companies, science networks, critical infrastructures and data centres.

The consortium members are: Airbus, Arianespace, Eutelsat, Hispasat, OHB, Orange, SES, Telespazio and Thales Alenia Space.

@AirbusSpace @Arianespace @EU_Commission @Eutelsat_SA @Hispasat @OHB_SE @orange @SES_satellites @telespazio @Thales_Alenia_S

[Lar]

It would be against its interests and investments to strongly support maintenance-intenstive, non-resilient megaconstellations instead of the more robust ground technology it has become a forefront player on. Of course, if Spain can do this, most mid-sized countries with a reasonably large economy can too.

Satellites (launched from one place, and self deorbiting when not working properly) and isolated (but essentially single design and made in mass quantities)  ground stations are maintenance intensive, and fixed fiber running in a myriad different directions is *not* maintenance intensive?

That seems counterintuitive, so please justify that if you would.

[Lar]

Easy to say living from moeny from the western EU.

The money (printed paper) flows from the metrpolis to periphery. While the resources to sustain the metropolis come from the periphery. So please don't feel so smug. EU is not a charity project.

Maybe it's just me but the general state of the EU, whether it's charity, who funds what, etc... political. We don't do general politics.

Some posts trimmed. Don't make me lock this thread.