Indonesia Invites SpaceX to Set Up Spaceport

[RedLineTrain]

Bloomberg is reporting that the President of Indonesia asked Musk to study setting up a spaceport in the country. The reporting doesn't mention anything concrete, such as location(s).

It appears that this was one of several topics in conversation between the President and Musk.  This is being swept in to the President's wooing of Musk to set up a battery factory in the country and a general effort to invite foreign investment.

This reporting is coming from the Indonesian side.

Indonesia invited SpaceX to assess the possibility of setting up a rocket launch site in the country, according to a ministry statement.

President Joko Widodo discussed the idea with SpaceX founder Elon Musk during a phone call on Friday, the Coordinating Ministry for Maritime and Investment Affairs said in the statement. Musk intends to send a team to Indonesia in January to study partnership opportunities, it said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-12/indonesia-asks-spacex-to-study-country-as-venue-for-launch-site

[xanmarus]

Private spaceport on the volcanic tropical island, owned by extravagant billionaire?

[hektor]

Er... ITAR ?

[spacenut]

If Indonesia builds the Spaceport to SpaceX's specifications, then equatorial launches could get more payload into orbit as well as geo orbits using Starships/Superheavies.  Also point to point for SE Asian markets. 

Maybe Japan would offer one of their islands south of Japan for the east Asian markets. 

This could get interesting. 

[Nomadd]

Private spaceport on the volcanic tropical island, owned by extravagant billionaire?

A tribute to the late, great Sean Connery?

[niwax]

I wish more space agencies looked at the diplomatic problems behind establishing international spaceports and bases instead of trying to aim for where SpaceX was five years ago. We're in for the same revolution as the jet age which resulted in only two remaining big aircraft manufacturers, but a flourishing industry backed by open skies agreements and common safety regulation. It is unreasonable to expect Europe to have a Starship in five years time, for example, but a good way to not be left behind is to operate them and establish technological exchange.

It's not impossible either. Remember when computing, networking and encryption were still considered military secrets? Imagine how the world would look if we had been forbidden from sharing technology for another ten or twenty years. The positive impact on world development was immense.

[RedLineTrain]

Er... ITAR ?

This can be solved, as did Rocket Lab in New Zealand.  As would Brazil with the launch site it was offering.  I think it takes a country-to-country operational agreement of some sort.

[Cherokee43v6]

Private spaceport on the volcanic tropical island, owned by extravagant billionaire?

*snerk*  Uh problem is that Elon is 'Iron Man' not 'Syndrome'...

[ncb1397]

Er... ITAR ?

Indonesia seems to be on the okay list currently for major arms exports. ITAR doesn't mean you can't export arms, it is ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations), not ITAB (International Traffic in Arms Ban).

Indonesia: Indonesia was cleared to spend an estimated $2 billion to buy eight MV-22 Block C Osprey aircraft. Also included are 24 AE 1107C Rolls-Royce engines; 20 each of the AN/AAQ-27 forward-Looking infrared radars, AN/AAR-47 missile warning systems and AN/APR-39 radar warning receivers; and 20 each of the M-240-D 7.64mm machine guns and GAU-21 machine guns, among other gear.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/the-americas/2020/07/06/us-approves-75-billion-in-foreign-weapon-sales-in-one-day/

So, things appear to have subsided after the issues with arms exports initiated due to the violence that occured during the East Timor independence movement. But the caveat being that this was done under Trump who tends to have lax arms export restraints and Ospreys aren't Intercontinental ballistic missile like objects. Those tend to be restricted to the closest allies such as SLBMs for the UK Royal Navy (being a NPT authorized nuclear weapon state will help). Anyways, I would imagine that for the time being, SpaceX or another U.S. corporation would maintain ownership and control over any large rockets that are operated out of Indonesia.

[baldusi]

The ITAR problem is solved by basically declaring the launch port a diplomatic premise. So they basically behave as in US soil. But that is also expensive. The question is if there's such demand for performance above Falcon 9's to equatorial orbits that justifies the investment and upkeep beyond making a bigger rocket. Give the bigger rocket that they are developing, I don't think this is something SpaceX would seriously think about.
Besides, there's a lot more to launching rocket than the latitude. SpaceX does has experience with equatorial remote location launch sites. And they certainly said that all the hassle and lack of infrastructure was not worth the hassle. KSC/CCAFS is probably the single best launch site in the world (not specifically for GTO nor Polar). You have everything. You want a contractor? You have them all at a few hours drive, or you can fly them from US soil on commercial flights all through the day. Any piece of equipment you need you can source in couple of days, and for general stuff like scaffolding, paint, cherry-pickers, hardware store stuff and such in hours. You simply can't do that anywhere else.

[steveleach]

The ITAR problem is solved by basically declaring the launch port a diplomatic premise. So they basically behave as in US soil. But that is also expensive. The question is if there's such demand for performance above Falcon 9's to equatorial orbits that justifies the investment and upkeep beyond making a bigger rocket. Give the bigger rocket that they are developing, I don't think this is something SpaceX would seriously think about.
Besides, there's a lot more to launching rocket than the latitude. SpaceX does has experience with equatorial remote location launch sites. And they certainly said that all the hassle and lack of infrastructure was not worth the hassle. KSC/CCAFS is probably the single best launch site in the world (not specifically for GTO nor Polar). You have everything. You want a contractor? You have them all at a few hours drive, or you can fly them from US soil on commercial flights all through the day. Any piece of equipment you need you can source in couple of days, and for general stuff like scaffolding, paint, cherry-pickers, hardware store stuff and such in hours. You simply can't do that anywhere else.

That's true, but with an equatorial site, cheap labour and a government bending over backwards to offer investment and subsidies they could in time create the world's best spaceport. One thing they would need is a high-profile, high-volume keystone customer which could be why they are courting SpaceX.

And it might be attractive to SpaceX if the US Government doesn't allow them to launch as often as they want from the sites they want. Or if congress slaps overbearing regulations on Starship to try to protect SLS.

Also, if KSC/CCAFS is the best launch site in the world, why did SpaceX decide to do Starship in Boca Chica?

[baldusi]

The ITAR problem is solved by basically declaring the launch port a diplomatic premise. So they basically behave as in US soil. But that is also expensive. The question is if there's such demand for performance above Falcon 9's to equatorial orbits that justifies the investment and upkeep beyond making a bigger rocket. Give the bigger rocket that they are developing, I don't think this is something SpaceX would seriously think about.
Besides, there's a lot more to launching rocket than the latitude. SpaceX does has experience with equatorial remote location launch sites. And they certainly said that all the hassle and lack of infrastructure was not worth the hassle. KSC/CCAFS is probably the single best launch site in the world (not specifically for GTO nor Polar). You have everything. You want a contractor? You have them all at a few hours drive, or you can fly them from US soil on commercial flights all through the day. Any piece of equipment you need you can source in couple of days, and for general stuff like scaffolding, paint, cherry-pickers, hardware store stuff and such in hours. You simply can't do that anywhere else.

That's true, but with an equatorial site, cheap labour and a government bending over backwards to offer investment and subsidies they could in time create the world's best spaceport. One thing they would need is a high-profile, high-volume keystone customer which could be why they are courting SpaceX.

And it might be attractive to SpaceX if the US Government doesn't allow them to launch as often as they want from the sites they want. Or if congress slaps overbearing regulations on Starship to try to protect SLS.

Also, if KSC/CCAFS is the best launch site in the world, why did SpaceX decide to do Starship in Boca Chica?

KSC/CCAFS is the best launch site in the world for the whole stack. Boca Chica is just a rocket development ground. They are their own range, among other things. So they are free to play. But if you actually have a satellite, and need suplies like storable propellants, sophisticated payload processing installations and equipment, having an expert on any possible subject available and being able to get repair parts and services a call away, there's very little other places that can compete.

[su27k]

I don't see this go anywhere. Well, maybe if E2E works, they can get an E2E spaceport, other than that, no.

Brazil sent similar invitation to US launch companies, and they're a lot closer than Indonesia, I think SpaceX basically ignored them.

[Robotbeat]

You could use it to launch propellant to orbit. That'd reduce any logistical headaches of getting payloads down there.

[freddo411]

Depending on the hypothetical launch location one could have a first stage return to land down range.  This would result in greater payload to orbit

[steveleach]

The ITAR problem is solved by basically declaring the launch port a diplomatic premise. So they basically behave as in US soil. But that is also expensive. The question is if there's such demand for performance above Falcon 9's to equatorial orbits that justifies the investment and upkeep beyond making a bigger rocket. Give the bigger rocket that they are developing, I don't think this is something SpaceX would seriously think about.
Besides, there's a lot more to launching rocket than the latitude. SpaceX does has experience with equatorial remote location launch sites. And they certainly said that all the hassle and lack of infrastructure was not worth the hassle. KSC/CCAFS is probably the single best launch site in the world (not specifically for GTO nor Polar). You have everything. You want a contractor? You have them all at a few hours drive, or you can fly them from US soil on commercial flights all through the day. Any piece of equipment you need you can source in couple of days, and for general stuff like scaffolding, paint, cherry-pickers, hardware store stuff and such in hours. You simply can't do that anywhere else.

That's true, but with an equatorial site, cheap labour and a government bending over backwards to offer investment and subsidies they could in time create the world's best spaceport. One thing they would need is a high-profile, high-volume keystone customer which could be why they are courting SpaceX.

And it might be attractive to SpaceX if the US Government doesn't allow them to launch as often as they want from the sites they want. Or if congress slaps overbearing regulations on Starship to try to protect SLS.

Also, if KSC/CCAFS is the best launch site in the world, why did SpaceX decide to do Starship in Boca Chica?

KSC/CCAFS is the best launch site in the world for the whole stack. Boca Chica is just a rocket development ground. They are their own range, among other things. So they are free to play. But if you actually have a satellite, and need suplies like storable propellants, sophisticated payload processing installations and equipment, having an expert on any possible subject available and being able to get repair parts and services a call away, there's very little other places that can compete.

I'm not at all convinced of that, tbh. SpaceX were looking to launch lots of F9s from BC before they refocussed on Starship. I think this was because KSC/CCAFS couldn't support the launch rate they wanted.

Regardless, the fact that a certain facility is currently the best for something doesn't mean it will remain so.  In any contest, incumbents have an advantage, but they can also be too slow to react to nimble new entrants into their field.

I wouldn't be surprised if, fifty years from now, almost all launches are from massive international spaceports in Brazil, Somalia (!!??) and Indonesia, each with facilities that make KSC/CCAFS look like a clearing in a swamp by comparison.

[Zed_Noir]

Er... ITAR ?

On a US flagged launch platform along with a US flagged payload processing platform operating in Indonesian waters?

[Zed_Noir]

I don't see this go anywhere. Well, maybe if E2E works, they can get an E2E spaceport, other than that, no.

Brazil sent similar invitation to US launch companies, and they're a lot closer than Indonesia, I think SpaceX basically ignored them.

Brazil don't have massive nickel deposits. IIRC Indonesia recently prohibits the export of nickel ore. Might be worth it put up some floating launch facility to get access to the nickel for SX CTO's side business of making batteries.

[docmordrid]

I don't see this go anywhere. Well, maybe if E2E works, they can get an E2E spaceport, other than that, no.

Brazil sent similar invitation to US launch companies, and they're a lot closer than Indonesia, I think SpaceX basically ignored them.

Brazil don't have massive nickel deposits. IIRC Indonesia recently prohibits the export of nickel ore. Might be worth it put up some floating launch facility to get access to the nickel for SX CTO's side business of making batteries.

IMO this whole thing is a deal-sweetener for the proposed Tesla-Indonesia deal for nickel sales

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indonesia-battery/tesla-teams-to-visit-indonesia-to-check-on-investment-in-ev-components-government-idUSKBN28M08H

DECEMBER 12, 2020

JAKARTA (Reuters) - Tesla, the U.S. automaker, will send delegations to Indonesia next month to discuss potential investment in a supply chain for its electric vehicles, the government said on Saturday in a statement.

President Joko Widodo has touted Indonesia’s nickel reserves on a number of occasions, telling Reuters last month that “it’s very important because we have a great plan to make Indonesia the biggest producer of lithium batteries and we have the biggest nickel (reserves).”

[RedLineTrain]

I don't see this go anywhere. Well, maybe if E2E works, they can get an E2E spaceport, other than that, no.

Brazil sent similar invitation to US launch companies, and they're a lot closer than Indonesia, I think SpaceX basically ignored them.

What do you mean by E2E?  Do you mean point-to-point? And, if so, why would there be much difference between an orbital spaceport and a point-to-point spaceport?

In any event, I do think that your view of this invitation rests on how viable you think the point-to-point service will be and how aggressively SpaceX will pursuit it. The GEO-sat market is basically nil right now.