SpaceX is one of the RDOF Auction Winners

[Robotbeat]

NOTE: That once Starship starts launching Starlink sats the V2.0's will be deployed. The second generation sat is likely to be heavier but not that much. Produce possibly 4X the power and at least 4X the throughput per sat by more spot beams and 4X frequency reuse.

Frequency reuse cannot help here
You have only 4000 MHz in Ka band between Sat and GW . To increase this you have to change in V band  with 10000 MHz 37,5..42,5 GHZ or work with 2 or more GateWAys in Ka...

wrong! Yes it does! You can use smaller and more numerous spot beams with larger and more capable phased array antenna.

[su27k]

Yeah they really really want to claw it back somehow: Elon Musk’s SpaceX Riles Its Rivals for Broadband Subsidies - Competitors say government should think twice about backing SpaceX’s satellite-based system with nearly $1 billion

quote from reddit:

Rivals of SpaceX for subsidy dollars are calling on the FCC and its new leadership under the Biden administration to give those plans a closer look, and they are drumming up support for their cause on Capitol Hill.

More than 150 members of Congress wrote the FCC on Jan. 19 urging it “to thoroughly vet the winning bidders to ensure that they are capable” and to “consider opportunities for public input on the applications.”

The letter, which didn’t mention SpaceX or other companies by name, was subsequently promoted online by two trade groups that have competed for the federal subsidies: the National Rural Electric Cooperative Association and the Rural Broadband Association.

“We are in effect funding an experiment here,” said Jim Matheson, chief executive of the National Rural Electric Cooperative Association, which represents electricity providers also in line for subsidies to build out fiber-optic broadband networks. “We don’t know if it works or doesn’t work,” he said in an interview, referring to the SpaceX system.

[Lar]

Yeah they really really want to claw it back somehow: Elon Musk’s SpaceX Riles Its Rivals for Broadband Subsidies - Competitors say government should think twice about backing SpaceX’s satellite-based system with nearly $1 billion

quote from reddit:

Rivals of SpaceX for subsidy dollars are calling on the FCC and its new leadership under the Biden administration to give those plans a closer look, and they are drumming up support for their cause on Capitol Hill.

More than 150 members of Congress wrote the FCC on Jan. 19 urging it “to thoroughly vet the winning bidders to ensure that they are capable” and to “consider opportunities for public input on the applications.”

The letter, which didn’t mention SpaceX or other companies by name, was subsequently promoted online by two trade groups that have competed for the federal subsidies: the National Rural Electric Cooperative Association and the Rural Broadband Association.

“We are in effect funding an experiment here,” said Jim Matheson, chief executive of the National Rural Electric Cooperative Association, which represents electricity providers also in line for subsidies to build out fiber-optic broadband networks. “We don’t know if it works or doesn’t work,” he said in an interview, referring to the SpaceX system.

Betting against SpaceX is foolhardy. Unless you aren't competing on merits and think you have more clout than they do.

[docmordrid]

From the reddit quote,

“We are in effect funding an experiment here,” said Jim Matheson, chief executive of the National Rural Electric Cooperative Association,...“We don’t know if it works or doesn’t work,” he said in an interview, referring to the SpaceX system.

Says no one who has seen the YouTube videos or news reports, or talked to WA state officials, native people's who now have it, beta testers, etc.

Reeks of desperation.

[aero]

Seems to me that SpaceX is going to put Starlink up, with or without the RDOF money. They will have it up and operational well before the competition gets their systems in place which will, in the end, will pretty much eliminate the market for the competition.

[su27k]

Viasat wants FCC to review Starlink’s government funding

Satellite operator Viasat is stepping up efforts to stop Starlink’s growing constellation, taking aim at the nearly $900 million of rural broadband subsidies that SpaceX won in December.

The operator is asking the Federal Communications Commission to review decisions made around the Rural Digital Opportunity Fund (RDOF), claiming differential treatment and a lack of transparency.

In an Application for Review (AFR) filed June 1, Viasat calls on the regulator to probe a series of decisions related to bidding to provide low-latency internet service under RDOF’s Phase 1, also known as Auction 904.

[docmordrid]

ISTM Viasat thinks they're in a cage death match (they aren't wrong).

[M.E.T.]

How long can Viasat survive once Starlink is operational?

Just trying to adjust my expectations as to how long we’ll still have to endure this cynical, litigation-based rearguard action before Viasat goes quietly into the night.

[electricdawn]

You know, Viasat could've just took the punch in the gut, roll with it and then get on with developing something better.

Instead, they decided to go the way of the lawyer. IMHO, not a good move in this case.

Compete on your merit as a technical company, not on how expensive your lawyer is.

[jpo234]

How long can Viasat survive once Starlink is operational?

Just trying to adjust my expectations as to how long we’ll still have to endure this cynical, litigation-based rearguard action before Viasat goes quietly into the night.

Imagine Nokia petitioning the FCC in 2007 to block the iPhone because it would disrupt their business. Companies should compete on the merit of their offerings.

[RedLineTrain]

To the merits of Viasat's arguments, they aren't very strong.  Their LEO constellation was only proposed.  They didn't have the regulatory approval for the constellation.  Also, they said the only reason for the LEO constellation was the subsidies.

Contrast to SpaceX, which was in the middle of a constellation launch campaign, was able to provide testing showing the low latency to a skeptical FCC, and had regulatory approval for a full constellation.

In my opinion, the disparate treatment, such as it existed, was warranted.  But in the end, all of these arguments by Viasat and others such as the rural electricity cooperatives hinge on whether SpaceX can deliver this constellation.  So far, SpaceX has shown it is likely to do so in short order.  And so those arguments will fall away as time goes on.

[gongora]

How long can Viasat survive once Starlink is operational?

Just trying to adjust my expectations as to how long we’ll still have to endure this cynical, litigation-based rearguard action before Viasat goes quietly into the night.

Viasat has multiple business lines and Starlink isn't going to have the capacity to completely replace all of their competitors.

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

This current attack  (strategy) by Viasat will very unlikely do anything to SpaceX's Starlink launches. Since the Starlink launches are decoupled from RDOF since they are not paid for by RDOF. Only the purchases of the UT's by the Rural customers is subsidized making the service affordable to the Rural communities. Such that a suit about RDOF would only affect that UT subsidy program which whether it exists or not will not affect service offerings to rural US customers. RDOF for Starlink is an accelerator not a lifeline.

This suit can only delay the funds by RDOF. Such that if Starlink's funds are suspended likely the complete program's funds would get suspended to all the providers that won bids. Either the bid process was faulty or it was not. Such that all bids and payouts are halted or non are.

The suit is a nuisance to the FCC RDOF program. Not to Starlink. Starlink does not need RDOF to thrive.

[Jcc]

How long can Viasat survive once Starlink is operational?

Just trying to adjust my expectations as to how long we’ll still have to endure this cynical, litigation-based rearguard action before Viasat goes quietly into the night.

Viasat has multiple business lines and Starlink isn't going to have the capacity to completely replace all of their competitors.

Imagine you live in a forested area and like it that way, all you need to find is a narrow line of site to a Geo satellite to mount your antenna, and it stays there. With a Leo constellation you ideally need a clear view all the way around to get the max bandwidth, because the sats will be all over the sky. Some people may prefer to stick with Geo for that reason.

[Robotbeat]

How long can Viasat survive once Starlink is operational?

Just trying to adjust my expectations as to how long we’ll still have to endure this cynical, litigation-based rearguard action before Viasat goes quietly into the night.

Viasat has multiple business lines and Starlink isn't going to have the capacity to completely replace all of their competitors.

Imagine you live in a forested area and like it that way, all you need to find is a narrow line of site to a Geo satellite to mount your antenna, and it stays there. With a Leo constellation you ideally need a clear view all the way around to get the max bandwidth, because the sats will be all over the sky. Some people may prefer to stick with Geo for that reason.

On the contrary, I think as Starlink fills out, you can use a small area of the sky for access. In the early days with a thin constellation, you still need a really good view of the sky.

Also, if you live at like 45 degrees latitude or higher (i.e. northern Europe, like the UK and Germany, etc) it's probably more convenient to use LEO which allows you to access the sky upwards than GSO which requires a view  toward the horizon.

[Robotbeat]

How long can Viasat survive once Starlink is operational?

Just trying to adjust my expectations as to how long we’ll still have to endure this cynical, litigation-based rearguard action before Viasat goes quietly into the night.

Viasat has multiple business lines and Starlink isn't going to have the capacity to completely replace all of their competitors.

I am not sure that's true. In a few years, Starlink may indeed have much more capacity than everyone else combined.

Still, there will be some residual business for Viasat as they cut their prices. Some businesses don't care about latency.

[zubenelgenubi]

Moderator: The fan-boy / fan-boy opposite argument is off-topic. It appears to have come to a halt. Please keep it that way.
Posts deleted.

[vsatman]

NOTE: That once Starship starts launching Starlink sats the V2.0's will be deployed. The second generation sat is likely to be heavier but not that much. Produce possibly 4X the power and at least 4X the throughput per sat by more spot beams and 4X frequency reuse.

Frequency reuse cannot help here
You have only 4000 MHz in Ka band between Sat and GW . To increase this you have to change in V band  with 10000 MHz 37,5..42,5 GHZ or work with 2 or more GateWAys in Ka...

wrong! Yes it does! You can use smaller and more numerous spot beams with larger and more capable phased array antenna. 

Better just explain how  antenna on the satellite will understand between two signals on the same frequency of the Ku band (500 MHz in which 8 beams of 60 MHz are currently operating) coming from two different terminals. Now in satellite communication it is radio interference (jamming)

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

NOTE: That once Starship starts launching Starlink sats the V2.0's will be deployed. The second generation sat is likely to be heavier but not that much. Produce possibly 4X the power and at least 4X the throughput per sat by more spot beams and 4X frequency reuse.

Frequency reuse cannot help here
You have only 4000 MHz in Ka band between Sat and GW . To increase this you have to change in V band  with 10000 MHz 37,5..42,5 GHZ or work with 2 or more GateWAys in Ka...

wrong! Yes it does! You can use smaller and more numerous spot beams with larger and more capable phased array antenna. 

Better just explain how  antenna on the satellite will understand between two signals on the same frequency of the Ku band (500 MHz in which 8 beams of 60 MHz are currently operating) coming from two different terminals. Now in satellite communication it is radio interference (jamming)

Something for those interested to read.
Simulation and experimental measurement of digital multi-beamforming phased antenna array in the frequency range C
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211379718320990

It is not that difficult from a mathematical standpoint but becomes much more difficult from a practical engineering standpoint due to the speeds needed by the digital signal processors involved. But even then for what we are talking about is still doable as long as the beams are non moving with fixed directions. In order to have say 4 separate spot beams in different directions, you would probably need a phased array about 2X the diameter of that of a single beam array. To increase the gains and to make enough physical separation of the formed beams so there is margins between the beams to lessen the interference between beams on the same frequency. Note is that for just 4 beams there is not much of an incentive to do multiple beams in the same array. But for 9,16 or more beams will be more space efficient (as in the surface area that the phased arrays take up) using a single array is less than using separate ones.

[Robotbeat]

NOTE: That once Starship starts launching Starlink sats the V2.0's will be deployed. The second generation sat is likely to be heavier but not that much. Produce possibly 4X the power and at least 4X the throughput per sat by more spot beams and 4X frequency reuse.

Frequency reuse cannot help here
You have only 4000 MHz in Ka band between Sat and GW . To increase this you have to change in V band  with 10000 MHz 37,5..42,5 GHZ or work with 2 or more GateWAys in Ka...

wrong! Yes it does! You can use smaller and more numerous spot beams with larger and more capable phased array antenna. 

Better just explain how  antenna on the satellite will understand between two signals on the same frequency of the Ku band (500 MHz in which 8 beams of 60 MHz are currently operating) coming from two different terminals. Now in satellite communication it is radio interference (jamming)

Because a phased array will only have all the antenna elements in phase if the signal is coming from only a certain area in the sky. All other areas will be out of phase and thus not highly amplified.