Author Topic: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread  (Read 466964 times)

Offline Jansen

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #240 on: 01/24/2021 05:52 pm »
The last ten launches have gone at a pace equivalent to over 40 per year.

The launch cadence will actually increase during February and March due to being primarily Starlink launches and not having that holiday gap. There is much more control and the ability to cut corners. Also the reduced 35 day turnaround thanks to Elon’s initiatives.

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #241 on: 01/24/2021 08:23 pm »
The last ten launches have gone at a pace equivalent to over 40 per year.

The launch cadence will actually increase during February and March due to being primarily Starlink launches and not having that holiday gap. There is much more control and the ability to cut corners. Also the reduced 35 day turnaround thanks to Elon’s initiatives.
But the three items controlling the pace are:

1- The number of boosters is 5 in the rotation. 11 more launches will advance 2 boosters to 10 each when the max pace is performed. 10 launches starting 1 Feb over a period of 70 days minimum or ~10 weeks. One launch a week on average maximum.
2- The minimum cycle time Launch to Launch for a booster is 35 days. But it could be more leaving an average of from 37 to 40 days for this cycle time. See next item.
3- The minimum pad recycle time is 9 to 11 days for a Starlink launch depending on pad. Same for a Cargo D2. For all the others ~14 days. The pad cycle time for all launches is 14 days or less and with 2 pads gives a easy 1 a week launch rate. So the maximum rate defined by booster availability can be achieved without any additional effort than normal.

Note once the 2 reuse leading booster reach 10 each ther is a ? on whether they will continue launching after a significant inspection and some refurbishment. Such as replacement of some parts that have been superseded by updated ones on the latest boosters possibly even including new engines. For engines it is the carbon soot buildup primarily. If it is determined that the soot buildup is not as sever as predicted and the engines are in good shape the engines may not be replaced after a through inspection. In this case the boosters could be back in rotation in as little as 60 days Launch to Launch from their 10th flight.

So the next two months at max possible launch rates would have Feb with 3 launches (due to booster availability) and Mar with 3 or 4 Starlink launches with possibly 1 non-Starlink along with a low possibility of also a Crew Dragon flight which is on it's for now dedicated booster held out of the normal readiness que.

Which could result in total number of flights for Q1 2021 at 10 to 12. Note a sustained flight rate of 12 per quarter would result in 48 launches for the year.

Offline ZachF

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #242 on: 01/25/2021 04:12 pm »
Interesting factoid: In adjusted tonnage to orbit, it looks like SpaceX will have likely already beaten last year's totals for ULA or Arianespace (ex Soyuz) by early to mid February!  :o
artist, so take opinions expressed above with a well-rendered grain of salt...
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Offline Jansen

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #243 on: 01/26/2021 06:18 pm »
Confirmed:

Jan 30 LC-39A
B1049.8 - Starlink v1.0 L17
66 days Nov 25-Jan 30

Feb 04 SLC-40
B1059.6? - Starlink v1.0 L18
47 days Dec 19-Feb 04


Unconfirmed:

Feb 11 LC-39A
B1060.5 - Starlink v1.0 L19
35 days Jan7-Feb 11
Starlink v1.0 L19

Feb 24
B1051.9 - Starlink v1.0 L20
35 days Jan20-Feb 24

Feb 28
B1058.6 - Starlink v1.0 L21
35 days Jan 24-Feb28


There is an outside chance of 4 launches in February based on the new best case 35 day turnaround. I’m not saying that this will happen, just plotting out the possibility.

This is all based on the assumption that B1063 is on the west coast and there aren’t any NROL-108 type fastball launches thrown in. Also an outside chance of a Vandenburg launch.
« Last Edit: 01/27/2021 07:36 am by Jansen »

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #244 on: 01/26/2021 06:35 pm »
A flurry of Starlinks, I like it.

That would be a ton of additional on orbit capacity. 

Bye bye Better than nothing Beta, hello commercial operation.
Starship, Vulcan and Ariane 6 have all reached orbit.  New Glenn, well we are waiting!

Offline Jansen

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #245 on: 01/26/2021 06:51 pm »
A flurry of Starlinks, I like it.

That would be a ton of additional on orbit capacity. 

Bye bye Better than nothing Beta, hello commercial operation.


I’m predicting at least 10-15 Starlink launches in the first half of 2021.

The rationale for that is simple. SpaceX can easily launch 4 flights a month with its current rate of booster reprocessing. However, there are only 7-8 external launches booked for 1H 2021. Three Starlink launches a month would fill that gap.

There is a huge demand for Starlink, and they will need a lot of capacity to meet that demand, which is reflected in the chart below.

Currently, there is a backlog of at least 720 Starlink satellites waiting to be launched.

With at least 16 external launches in 2H 2021 planned, the time to launch is sooner rather than later.

Pretty much as I predicted almost two months ago. 1H on the manifest is wide open versus 2H.

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #246 on: 01/26/2021 06:57 pm »
A flurry of Starlinks, I like it.

That would be a ton of additional on orbit capacity. 

Bye bye Better than nothing Beta, hello commercial operation.


I’m predicting at least 10-15 Starlink launches in the first half of 2021.

The rationale for that is simple. SpaceX can easily launch 4 flights a month with its current rate of booster reprocessing. However, there are only 7-8 external launches booked for 1H 2021. Three Starlink launches a month would fill that gap.

There is a huge demand for Starlink, and they will need a lot of capacity to meet that demand, which is reflected in the chart below.

Currently, there is a backlog of at least 720 Starlink satellites waiting to be launched.

With at least 16 external launches in 2H 2021 planned, the time to launch is sooner rather than later.

Pretty much as I predicted almost two months ago. 1H on the manifest is wide open versus 2H.

100% your analysis on 1H is right on.  2H from the east coast is tight.  But they could shift Starlink activity to the west coast in 2H and put all the Polar birds up this year.

I agree the demand for Starlink is gigantic and increasingly global.  Global is kind of big.
« Last Edit: 01/26/2021 06:59 pm by wannamoonbase »
Starship, Vulcan and Ariane 6 have all reached orbit.  New Glenn, well we are waiting!

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #247 on: 01/31/2021 01:32 am »
There is a possible patter that could emerge over the next month of Feb and Mar. And that is that every ~14 days SpaceX would do Starlink launch followed a couple of days later by another Starlink launch. Thereby utilizing the two fairing catchers in one deployment. A 14 day spacing for a launch from a specific pad plus for a specific ASDS would be about the best possible launch rate achievable. It also after 2 months would then run into another problem of booster availability restricting launch rate back down but also into April other non Starlink launches also complicate the usage of this launch pattern so it would only exist for 4 or at most 5 clusters of Starlink launches L17/18, L19/20, L21/22, and L23/24. 8 launches over 2 months or 11 for the quarter. Also note that if this pattern holds that booster 1051 will fly not only 9 th time but also a 10th time. A VAFB launch in the quarter would make it 12. The next quarter (Apr, May, Jun) may see a drop in the total to under 10 due to booster availability and payload schedules. Note that a Crew 2 is showing a April 20 date. Also there is a possible range complication with the Starliner launch in late March on the neighboring 41 pad to 40. This may cause any Starlink launches in the last week of March move into April.

Offline Jansen

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #248 on: 01/31/2021 04:17 am »
There is a possible patter that could emerge over the next month of Feb and Mar. And that is that every ~14 days SpaceX would do Starlink launch followed a couple of days later by another Starlink launch. Thereby utilizing the two fairing catchers in one deployment. A 14 day spacing for a launch from a specific pad plus for a specific ASDS would be about the best possible launch rate achievable.

The best rate launch cadence from SLC-40 without a static fire is theoretically around 7-8 days. There are other ships that can recover  fairings out of the water. I don’t see SpaceX waiting an extra week on launches just to catch fairings.

If you look at the best case scenario a few posts above, they are already booster constrained in mid February.
« Last Edit: 01/31/2021 04:22 am by Jansen »

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #249 on: 01/31/2021 04:53 am »
There is a possible patter that could emerge over the next month of Feb and Mar. And that is that every ~14 days SpaceX would do Starlink launch followed a couple of days later by another Starlink launch. Thereby utilizing the two fairing catchers in one deployment. A 14 day spacing for a launch from a specific pad plus for a specific ASDS would be about the best possible launch rate achievable.

The best rate launch cadence from SLC-40 without a static fire is theoretically around 7-8 days. There are other ships that can recover  fairings out of the water. I don’t see SpaceX waiting an extra week on launches just to catch fairings.

If you look at the best case scenario a few posts above, they are already booster constrained in mid February.
The problem is a combination of booster availability, ASDS cycle time, Pad cycle time, faring catchers cycle time, and not to forget weather which is a wild card. Plus after 11 more launches that includes L17 launch, 2 boosters out of the 5 available will have reach 10 flights each. What happens then is a ???. But the pattern is one that can save a little time and money for SpaceX if managed correctly. It ends with an average launch rate of 1 launch a week. But only can be kept up for 11 more weeks from now. After that with only 3 available boosters and a 35 day launch to launch for a booster. Those 3 boosters would only support 3 launches a month at best. After Crew 2 1061 may be added to the que so that in June there would be 4 boosters in rotation. The other question is the number of flights 10 and then a significant refurb or is the number flexible?

To many unknowns. But the main driver limiting in Feb and Mar to ~4 launches each month are booster availability even with a few 35 day launch to launch booster cycles.

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #250 on: 01/31/2021 07:07 am »
It feels like a long time since we have seen a new built booster (out side of the FH ones)

Surely one or 2 should be coming out of Hawthorne soon?

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #251 on: 01/31/2021 08:28 am »
It feels like a long time since we have seen a new built booster (out side of the FH ones)

Surely one or 2 should be coming out of Hawthorne soon?

My suspicion is that the Hawthorne facility is rolling out just upper stages lately. How else they keep up their current launch cadence. ;)
 

Offline Jansen

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #252 on: 01/31/2021 08:38 am »
It feels like a long time since we have seen a new built booster (out side of the FH ones)

Surely one or 2 should be coming out of Hawthorne soon?

There is speculation that B1067 will be a regular booster, with B1068-70 for another FH.

Offline cwr

Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #253 on: 01/31/2021 07:00 pm »
It feels like a long time since we have seen a new built booster (out side of the FH ones)

Surely one or 2 should be coming out of Hawthorne soon?

Pure speculation on my part, but given the projected shortage of boosters
projected in the near term and the next two FH vehicles will use all new cores,
I've wondered if 1052 and 1053 aren't due to be refurbished as F9 boosters?

18 months sitting idle seems like a long time!

Plus SpaceX is quite good at logistics planning  yet we've not heard rumours
about 1052 and 1053 in a long while.

Carl

Offline mandrewa

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #254 on: 01/31/2021 08:01 pm »
It feels like a long time since we have seen a new built booster (out side of the FH ones)

Surely one or 2 should be coming out of Hawthorne soon?

Pure speculation on my part, but given the projected shortage of boosters
projected in the near term and the next two FH vehicles will use all new cores,
I've wondered if 1052 and 1053 aren't due to be refurbished as F9 boosters?

18 months sitting idle seems like a long time!

Plus SpaceX is quite good at logistics planning  yet we've not heard rumours
about 1052 and 1053 in a long while.

Carl


That is what I've been thinking for some time.  I'm not even sure that there is an alternative.

1063.2 is the Vandenberg booster, and it should launch Sarah 1, Sarah 2/3, Dart, and then are plenty of other missions for it at Vandenberg after that.

1062.2 is dedicated to GPS III-5 and is not for the use of anything else in between.  The earliest it will be available for other missions is August.

1061.2 is dedicated to CCtCap Crew-2 and then CRS2 SpX-22 and the earliest it will become available for other missions is July.

That leaves five boosters, 1049.8, 1051.9, 1058.6, 1059.6, and 1060.5, for everything else, and they can support, based on the empirical evidence, three missions per month. 

Except that 1049 and 1051 are almost at the end of their planned life.  And then 1058 and 1059 aren't that far behind.

So where are the other boosters going to come from?  Well it wouldn't surprise me if 1067.1 is going to be put into this pool.  And I won't be at all surprised if 1049 and 1051 end up doing more than ten missions.  But I can't believe that SpaceX actually planned for that to happen.  It's more that it's great if it happens, but they didn't count on it happening.

So that leaves 1052.3 and 1053.3 which I suspect have been sidelined because SpaceX has some kind of contract to keep a Falcon Heavy set ready.  And I speculate that they will show up in use for other missions, once USSF-44 launches.


Offline Jansen

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #255 on: 01/31/2021 08:48 pm »
Pure speculation on my part, but given the projected shortage of boosters
projected in the near term and the next two FH vehicles will use all new cores,
I've wondered if 1052 and 1053 aren't due to be refurbished as F9 boosters?

There is extensive debate about those particular boosters in the reusability subforum. I’m going to suggest that discussion continue over there, as it’s more appropriate than a launch manifest thread.

Converting Falcon Heavy core/side boosters for regular launches
« Last Edit: 01/31/2021 08:50 pm by Jansen »

Offline PM3

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #256 on: 02/03/2021 11:02 am »
BTW how do we know the "L17" & "L18" designators are assigned to specific rockets/satellites and not sequential?

Those are the mission names they provide to the range.  They are on all of the planning documents (weather forecasts, hazard areas).

Further analysis shows that the rest of the naming scheme has been somewhat volatile. These are all from the weather reports:

- Starlink-1
- StarlinkV1.0-L2
- StarlinkV1.0-L3
- StarlinkV1-L4
- Starlink V1.0-L5
- (no weather report preserverd for L6)
- Starlink L7
- Starlink L8
- Starlink L9
- Mission Name  ::)
- Starlink V1.0-L11
- Starlink v1.0-L12
- Starlink V1.0-L13
- Starlink V1.0-L14
- Starlink V1.0-L15
- Starlink V1.0-L16
- Starlink L17
- Starlink L18

Let's see if the version numbers were permanently dropped now or if they will return.
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Offline SMS

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #257 on: 02/04/2021 10:02 am »
---
SMS ;-).

Offline hopalong

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #258 on: 02/04/2021 10:22 am »
It feels like a long time since we have seen a new built booster (out side of the FH ones)

Surely one or 2 should be coming out of Hawthorne soon?

Pure speculation on my part, but given the projected shortage of boosters
projected in the near term and the next two FH vehicles will use all new cores,
I've wondered if 1052 and 1053 aren't due to be refurbished as F9 boosters?

18 months sitting idle seems like a long time!

Plus SpaceX is quite good at logistics planning  yet we've not heard rumours
about 1052 and 1053 in a long while.

Carl


That is what I've been thinking for some time.  I'm not even sure that there is an alternative.

1063.2 is the Vandenberg booster, and it should launch Sarah 1, Sarah 2/3, Dart, and then are plenty of other missions for it at Vandenberg after that.

1062.2 is dedicated to GPS III-5 and is not for the use of anything else in between.  The earliest it will be available for other missions is August.

1061.2 is dedicated to CCtCap Crew-2 and then CRS2 SpX-22 and the earliest it will become available for other missions is July.

That leaves five boosters, 1049.8, 1051.9, 1058.6, 1059.6, and 1060.5, for everything else, and they can support, based on the empirical evidence, three missions per month. 

Except that 1049 and 1051 are almost at the end of their planned life.  And then 1058 and 1059 aren't that far behind.

So where are the other boosters going to come from?  Well it wouldn't surprise me if 1067.1 is going to be put into this pool.  And I won't be at all surprised if 1049 and 1051 end up doing more than ten missions.  But I can't believe that SpaceX actually planned for that to happen.  It's more that it's great if it happens, but they didn't count on it happening.

So that leaves 1052.3 and 1053.3 which I suspect have been sidelined because SpaceX has some kind of contract to keep a Falcon Heavy set ready.  And I speculate that they will show up in use for other missions, once USSF-44 launches.

The planned life is in the order of 100 missions with 10 missions between major overhauls / inspections.

Will SpaceX pull one at 10 flights and completely disassemble it for a very deep inspection, then let the others go beyond 10 flights based on the results on that destructive inspection?   

Offline SMS

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Discussion Thread
« Reply #259 on: 02/04/2021 11:04 am »
After Starlink-18 launch:
Core   Mission      retry    Last flight
B1049   Starlink-19   7x           2020 Nov 24
B1051      ?                8x       2021 Jan 20
B1058      ?                5x       2021 Jan 24
B1059       ?             5x       2020 Dec 19
B1060       ?             5x       2021 Feb 4
B1061   Crew-2      1x       2020 Nov 16
B1062   GPS 3-5      1x       2020 Nov 05
B1063   DART      1x       2020 Nov 21
« Last Edit: 02/04/2021 11:06 am by SMS »
---
SMS ;-).

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