Author Topic: Artemis Accords  (Read 161849 times)

Offline Frogstar_Robot

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #140 on: 10/21/2020 12:18 pm »
I see criticism of the article but no one has answered to the fact that when it states China is unable to enter into these accords due to US political will alone then it is perfectly correct.

That has been known since Day 1, so it's just stating the obvious. I mean, I could say "the Earth is round and we are being visited by aliens" and I would be 50% correct. :)

We also can't infer anything about China's willingness to sign if they are not even invited, with respect to the title of the article. The only comments I have seen from Chinese representatives is along the lines they believe that dialog should continue through UN offices (therefore COPOUS I guess).

The article really failed to answer the question why countries are refusing to sign, or even established that they are refusing to sign, which was the premise. Possibly it was a misleading headline inserted by a subeditor, which often happens. However,
I would expect more insight from a Professor of Space Law and Policy - any science journo could have written that. Generally I find the insight provided by "space law experts" rather lacking, mostly along the lines "yeah, this looks good and opens the way to space resource utilization".

Btw, I am not criticizing you, I am glad you posted the link as it gives me a chance to comment.
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Offline hektor

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #141 on: 10/21/2020 01:20 pm »
Taking the example of France which is my home country, CNES ' Jean-Yves Le Gall was everywhere last week in the media singing the praise of the Artemis program to the Moon and speculating when Thomas Pesquet would walk there. So I would not be surprised that France signs the Artemis Accords.

Maybe some European countries are just waiting for the outcome of the election.

Offline yg1968

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #142 on: 10/21/2020 03:46 pm »
Taking the example of France which is my home country, CNES ' Jean-Yves Le Gall was everywhere last week in the media singing the praise of the Artemis program to the Moon and speculating when Thomas Pesquet would walk there. So I would not be surprised that France signs the Artemis Accords.

Maybe some European countries are just waiting for the outcome of the election.

I doubt that they are waiting for the election. Bridenstine spoke of a second round later this year. The current administration will be in place, at least until the inauguration date which is on January 20th 2021.
« Last Edit: 10/21/2020 03:51 pm by yg1968 »

Offline Star One

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #143 on: 10/21/2020 04:55 pm »
Taking the example of France which is my home country, CNES ' Jean-Yves Le Gall was everywhere last week in the media singing the praise of the Artemis program to the Moon and speculating when Thomas Pesquet would walk there. So I would not be surprised that France signs the Artemis Accords.

Maybe some European countries are just waiting for the outcome of the election.

I doubt that they are waiting for the election. Bridenstine spoke of a second round later this year. The current administration will be in place, at least until the inauguration date which is on January 20th 2021.
Has Biden indicated he will support them if elected?

Offline yg1968

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #144 on: 10/21/2020 05:30 pm »
Not specifically but the Democratic platform supports going to the Moon and Mars. I am not sure why Biden would be against them, they are just non-binding principles. Nevertheless, it's better to sign the Accords before the end of the year to avoid any uncertainty.

The MOUs related to the Accords have not yet been signed. Those may not get done this year.  I can understand countries wanting to delay those after the election as the MOUs are more specific as to which space agency does what. 

« Last Edit: 10/21/2020 05:33 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #145 on: 10/21/2020 11:02 pm »
Artemis: What it Means for Luxembourg Op-ed by Ambassador Evans and LSA Board Advisor Dr. S. Pete Worden:
https://lu.usembassy.gov/artemis-what-it-means-for-luxembourg-op-ed-by-ambassador-evans-and-lsa-board-advisor-dr-s-pete-worden/

Offline yg1968

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #146 on: 10/22/2020 10:10 pm »
Quote from: Space Court Foundation
A big thanks to all who participated in our event today with the Space Court Foundation and to those who joined us! We hope you enjoyed the presentation and if you missed it, you can watch the archive on our Space Court Foundation youtube channel.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCSw0bB08_w2mODRm0y-9xdw

https://twitter.com/spacecourtfdn/status/1319399460028387329

https://twitter.com/spacecourtfdn/status/1319328620003921921


« Last Edit: 10/22/2020 11:06 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #147 on: 10/22/2020 10:53 pm »
One of the interesting thing that Mike Gold said during the presentation (at 1h13m of the archived video linked below) was that the related agreement between the agencies (the MOUs) will be binding even though the Artemis Accords are not. His explanation was that the Artemis Accords evolved during the negotiations and that the negotiating countries did not want the principles to be binding. However, they wanted the specific commitments to the Artemis program to be binding. 

Mike Gold also explained (at 1h1m) that the seven countries that are signatories were countries that were ready to contribute to Artemis now. He gave the example of JAXA and their pressurized rover. He also mentioned Australia but said that he couldn't disclose their contribution to Artemis for now. He said that any country that is interested in being part of Artemis should contact them.

« Last Edit: 04/08/2022 07:49 pm by yg1968 »

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #148 on: 10/24/2020 05:26 am »
He also mentioned Australia but said that he couldn't disclose their contribution to Artemis for now.

That's because Australia doesn't know what they are contributing yet. Funding from the $150M Moon to Mars program is currently being used to help develop the space industry. That leaves $124.3M for Artemis. I suspect our contribution might be in robotic mining.

https://www.industry.gov.au/news-media/australian-space-agency-news/new-frontier-for-space-supply-chains
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Offline yg1968

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« Last Edit: 10/25/2020 03:03 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #150 on: 10/25/2020 03:27 pm »
The article cites the following decision in respect of due regard (which is relevant to the safety zones concept in the Artemis Accords):

Chagos Marine Protected Area Arbitration (Mauritius v United Kingdom), Mar. 18, 2015, para. 519.

Quote from: paragraph 519 of the decision
In the Tribunal’s view, the ordinary meaning of “due regard” calls for the United Kingdom to have such regard for the rights of Mauritius as is called for by the circumstances and by the nature of those rights. The Tribunal declines to find in this formulation any universal rule of conduct. The Convention does not impose a uniform obligation to avoid any impairment of Mauritius’ rights; nor does it uniformly permit the United Kingdom to proceed as it wishes, merely noting such rights. Rather, the extent of the regard required by the Convention will depend upon the nature of the rights held by Mauritius, their importance, the extent of the anticipated impairment, the nature and importance of the activities contemplated by the United Kingdom, and the availability of alternative approaches. In the majority of cases, this assessment will necessarily involve at least some consultation with the rights-holding State.

https://files.pca-cpa.org/pcadocs/MU-UK%2020150318%20Award.pdf
« Last Edit: 10/25/2020 03:35 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #151 on: 10/27/2020 04:49 pm »
Quote from: Marcia Smith
Espinasse [from ESA]: ESA is not a regulatory agency, that's up to each of our 22 members. They have quite different ideas about use of lunar resources, eg. General consensus on need for disc at intl level, but diff on how to develop these rules. Disc at UNCOPUOS is unavoidable.#VBS2020

Quote from: Marcia Smith
Gold-we look forward to a robust discussion at COPOUS, hopefully at Legal Subcommittee in April. [COVID permitting]

https://twitter.com/SpcPlcyOnline/status/1321129620654198785
https://twitter.com/SpcPlcyOnline/status/1321130130392100864
https://twitter.com/SpcPlcyOnline/status/1321122831300763648
« Last Edit: 10/27/2020 04:52 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #152 on: 10/27/2020 06:13 pm »
Here is a good summary of some of the presentations that I posted above:

The Artemis Accords take shape

https://www.thespacereview.com/article/4054/1
« Last Edit: 10/27/2020 06:17 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #153 on: 10/29/2020 12:03 pm »
From the Truman Proclamation to the Artemis Accords: steps toward establishing a bottom-up framework for governance in space:
https://www.thespacereview.com/article/4053/1

https://twitter.com/tsr/status/1321777309397979138

Offline yg1968

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #154 on: 11/06/2020 03:38 pm »
Quote from: Astralytical
The US isn't the only country that interprets the 1967 Outer Space Treaty as allowing ownership of space resources. Luxembourg, the UAE, and now Japan have a similar interpretation.

Space resource utilization is a component of the Artemis Accords.

Japan is moving forward with legally allowing ownership of space resources along with the US, Luxembourg, the United Arab Emirates.

Expect to see continued momentum for this legal interpretation as more countries explicitly or implicitly agree.

https://twitter.com/Astralytical/status/1324751267588169729
« Last Edit: 11/06/2020 03:41 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #155 on: 11/08/2020 02:54 pm »

Offline Forrest White

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #156 on: 11/09/2020 07:30 am »
The beginning of the UK space industry is considering to be the returning home Black Arrow by private company Skyrora, which produces different satellites for climate change and wild nature observing. The company is also making launch vehicles. For example, the Skylark Micro rocket which can be used to test the construction materials or thermal protection coating under the flight loads. In addition, the rocket can also be used to investigate ambient conditions of the dense atmosphere for education purposes.

Offline SciNews

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #157 on: 11/12/2020 05:49 pm »
Scientific American - "Do NASA's Lunar Exploration Rules Violate Space Law?"
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-nasas-lunar-exploration-rules-violate-space-law/

Offline yg1968

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #158 on: 11/13/2020 11:45 am »
Scientific American - "Do NASA's Lunar Exploration Rules Violate Space Law?"
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-nasas-lunar-exploration-rules-violate-space-law/

Quote from: Tanja Masson-Zwaan
I have several issues w this @sciam, e.g. there is no 'acquisition' of safety zones; #ArtemisAccords were not 'dictated' but result of bilateral discussions; the accusation that signatories are 'complicit in hollowing out the OST' is unfounded #spacelaw

https://twitter.com/tanjamasson/status/1327183422884810756

Offline yg1968

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Re: Artemis Accords
« Reply #159 on: 11/13/2020 11:55 am »
Ukraine joins the Artemis Accords:

Quote from: Jeff Foust
Ukraine’s space agency says it’s signed the Artemis Accords, making it the first beyond the original set of eight countries to join.

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1327227637819985920

https://112.international/politics/ukraine-signs-agreement-with-nasa-to-study-moon-mars-comets-and-asteroids-56458.html
« Last Edit: 11/13/2020 11:57 am by yg1968 »

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