Future engineer in the spaceflight industry (hopeful) with endless questions

[southcounty253]

Quick backstory:

Active duty Navy (joined after high school), separating this August and heading back home (Kent, WA) to go to school. Was interested in engineering in general, but after watching SpaceX's SAOCOM 1A launch at VAFB in October '18, have become infatuated with spaceflight and want to work in no other industry. As a Kent native and having seen a SpaceX launch, them and Blue Origin have gotten me hooked.

Plan right now is to go to junior college out of pocket and transfer to UW (University of Washington) for Aerospace Engineering, or as UW calls is, Aeronautics and Astronautics. Want to hold onto my GI Bill until third year of college in hopes of pursuing a master's.

Now onto my many questions and cries for advice!

-Do I need to know what I want to specialize in before I graduate? I.e. propulsion, aerodynamics, orbital mechanics, etc. Propulsion speaks to me, but I'd work in any area of spaceflight that'll have me.
-How can I make best use of my electives, both general and degree electives?
-Go directly into a master's program, or try and work a bit first?
-What're some things I ought to learn while working on my degree? What aspects of spaceflight should I have a basic understanding of no matter what? Should I learn some topics on the side, such as programming?

These are just a few of my questions and curiosities as I prepare to take on this new chapter in life. I know this is bar none the best place to come to ask these questions, and I appreciate what everyone here contributes to this community as it only continues to fuel my passion!

[Markstark]

Hey there. Thank you for your service. I'll try to respond to some of your questions.

There is no rule of thumb. You might get a dozen different answers based on each person's experience.

In response to you first two questions. You don't HAVE to know what you want to specialize in when going through your undergraduate coursework. But if you're already passionate about a specific area, like propulsion, you could tailor your technical electives to match that area. On the UW website, I see they offer Rocket Propulsion (separate from the required 'general' propulsion course), and several other propulsion-centric courses. At my school, you could also take grad courses to satisfy you're technical electives. They counted towards both my undergrad and grad degree. But, of course, the classes were a bit harder. Anyhow, if you're set on working propulsion, you can go that route. In the job market i hired in, i was prepared to take any job. Fortunately, I got an internship with NASA and eventually a full-time offer. But I didn't care what they wanted to me to.

For your third question, I recommend you start trying to at least secure an internship while doing your undergraduate coursework. Sometime between your sophomore or junior year. If you don't get an internship or don't have something lined up for when you graduate and can financially support yourself, then go for master's program. I got the internship at the start of my junior year, then starting working full-time after graduating with my BS. But I kept taking grad classes one or two at a time after starting full-time (paying out of pocket). Eventually, I got in a program at work were they paid for my remaining grad classes. I believe Blue, SpaceX and Boeing have similar programs for grad work in your field. But if you can use GI bill that probably doesn't matter much for you. Btw, I think paying for junior college out of pocket and saving the GI bill for your last 4 (out of 6) years of school is very smart.

For your last question, I think being here and staying up to date on what is going aerospace is a good start. As far as coding, through your engineering courses you'll likely use Matlab. Maybe even VB or C++. My friend works launch vehicle environments and he uses Python everyday. He said the free Google Python course is very good. Other software you might use in your classes include LabView and Mathcad. At work we use Creo (formally Pro E) a lot. NX, CATIA and SolidWorks are also popular in aerospace. This might sound stupid, but I've found being good at Excel to be very helpful.

Feel free to PM with any more questions. We can even schedule a call if you want to have a more detailed discussion.

[Fequalsma]

Markstark has good advice for you. I'd add that Aero/Astro is a "systems" degree, where I took at least 2 classes in each of: structures/materials, fluids/aerodynamics, dynamics, controls, propulsion, and vehicle design. I also "specialized" in two of these areas, which meant an additional 2 or 3 classes each, as well as taking other elective classes.

I don't know how UW organizes their AA undergrad, but just because you "specialize", doesn't mean that you can't work in the other areas. The systems aspect means that you have some understanding and appreciation of how all of the disciplines interact and affect each other.   

Doing a MS is a first step towards further specialization, so it would be good - but not essential - that it be in an area that you're interested in, and passionate about. Working can help you to determine what area(s) you like. This is even more critical if you decide you want to do a PhD! 

Internships are great, but I did a co-op program at NASA during my undergrad. It was an amazing experience, and I'm still with them 30+ years later. Highly recommend either option!

Good luck!
F=ma

[Eric Hedman]

I'm just going to chime in on one question: "Should I learn some topics on the side, such as programming?"

I went to the other UW - University of Wisconsin Madison 4 decades ago and got a degree in mechanical engineering.  Back then programming was already a required part of the course work (FORTRAN for those who remember that primitive language).  Several other classes required programming knowledge after that.  I've hire engineers over the years, both MEs and EEs, and the level of programming required has only grown.  It never hurts to have extra knowledge of any topic gained on the side that prepares you.

[gtae07]

I strongly recommend a co-op (better) or internships.  The real-world experience will be extremely valuable when it comes time to interview for your first full-time job, plus you get paid.  I dare say most employers will value good work experience over somewhat higher grades.  Your Navy experience will count for a lot, too.  What do you do?

Good call on knocking out some of your basic classes at a local school, first.  That’s a great cost-cutting measure that most people dismiss or don’t think of.  And for those who go straight from high school to college without working on their own or joining the military, it can be a good way to transition to more independence without just jumping into a major college campus and all the issues that can bring.  (I think a whole lot of things would be different if most people took a year or two between high school and college and worked/lived on their own first...)

No, you don’t need to know your specialty first.  And there’s a good chance that whatever you pick will be irrelevant in two years and you’ll be working in another area entirely.  My specialty was orbital mechanics; jet passenger aircraft don’t bother with that outside their GPS receivers and satellite comms, and now I’m a systems guy.  My friend’s specialty was thermo and heat transfer; he now does structural repair.

Programming would be good to learn, yes.  Even if nothing else you’ll want to be able to write basic Excel macros from time to time.  I was using various flavors of BASIC as a kid and found Matlab to be extremely similar so that wasn’t hard.  But I’m not a “real” programmer; I couldn’t make heads or tails of C++ and when we had to use Scheme (shudder) in the “programming for engineers” class, it was awful.  And speaking of Excel, get to know it; you’ll use it a lot.

Some form of solid-modeling CAD program would be useful to learn, too.  Which one isn’t super important; get the basic principles down and the rest is just learning where the buttons are.

As far as electives... if you have any elective options that involve building something real, take those.  Hands-on experience with real hardware is a really good thing.  Too many college “design” classes stop with pretty powerpoint pictures. 

I’m not sure how UW splits up their basic engineering classes, but Georgia Tech’s AE program has its own professors for controls and structures.  This, to me at least, was bad; I didn’t learn much in those classes (failed my first controls class even) because I had a hard time understanding the way they were teaching.  I needed remedial structures instruction at work just to get past beams, and I still don’t really get controls.  Found out later (after graduating) that the Civil and Mechanical classes would have counted and their professors use a teaching style that meshes a lot better with the way I learn.  So the point is, don’t assume you have to take all of your classes within the A/A school; if those subjects taken from other professors will count, “shop around” and find out which professor will work best for you.  I wish I had done that.

Get to know a few upperclassmen, as they can give you hints about which professors are good or bad (which isn’t “who gives the best grades”), what the best order to take certain classes is, which classes are good or bad to take together (due to workload), etc. 

Take advantage of opportunities to go to industry conferences cheaply.  Join the student AIAA chapter and go to their events, especially if there are people active or retired from industry attending them. That’s networking and it can help with a job search.  You also meet cool people that way—I’ve met a few astronauts, and Bob Crippen came and watched us present at a conference.  I met John Young at a little presentation on campus one day. 

I mentioned earlier that I “specialized” such as it was, in orbital mechanics.  This was because I had a much better intuitive grasp of it (how orbits behaved, what effect thrust would have at different points and orientations in an orbit, etc) than my peers.  I got that from years of playing around in Orbiter.  It didn’t teach me the math, but I was much more comfortable in the subject than my peers who mostly had to start from equations and derivations.  Similarly, despite doing poorly in controls, I did very well in my lab classes, flight dynamics, and performance.  I had a lot of experience building and flying R/C airplanes, using PC flight simulators, and building/flying a real airplane, and that gave me a real big leg up on those classes because I could just map the math onto the real world experiences that I already had.  I don’t know what your background is (hobbies, interests, Navy experience), but anything you can do to get some real-world applications (or, in the case of orbital mechanics, at least a qualitative understanding of the subject) under your belt before getting to the classes will help you understand them better. 

If you know you want to be a propulsion guy, I might almost suggest going Mechanical and taking the aero propulsion classes as electives.  Reason being is in a tight job market, ME’s seem to find jobs in other fields more easily than AEs do.  It’s stupid, but it is what it is, and despite having lived and breathed airplanes since I was a small child*, I’m now wishing I’d done ME with an AE minor or something.  I’m at the point now where I’m looking into getting my PE even though it’s mostly useless in the aerospace field, just as insurance.  And it’s funny how many people I know who picked more specialized majors (like my brother, a biomed guy) now wish they’d gone with one of the “big three” of Civil, Mechanical, or Electrical.  Those won’t stop you from going into the aerospace field—in fact, several of our chief engineers were Civil guys.


* I was fascinated by airplanes and spacecraft as long as I can remember, just like my dad who recently retired as an airline captain.  When Mom first told me about this thing called college, and that your pick an area to learn about, I asked her what Dad did at the Naval Academy because I wanted to be just like him.  She said “aeronautical engineering”, and just like that, my decision was made at age 4.  I remember that conversation to this day.

[southcounty253]

Thanks to all of you who took the time to provide your wisdom and insight!

I PM'd all of you and hope I don't overload you with more questions- always hungry for more knowledge. I didn't realize you need to check the box to save sent messages on here, so I'm about 90% sure I messaged anyone who replied to this thread.

Many thanks again for your time!