Canceled: SpaceX F9 : Space Adventures private Dragon flight

[Kansan52]

No numbers, just opinion. You must reach a destination and participate in activities to be a tourist. So trips to the ISS could be tourism the rest just seem like fancy roller coasters.

[Comga]

No numbers, just opinion. You must reach a destination and participate in activities to be a tourist. So trips to the ISS could be tourism the rest just seem like fancy roller coasters.

There are tourist flight in passenger airplanes across the North and South Poles.
There are cruises to see solar eclipses from the middle of oceans.
Many things can be considered “tourist destinations” that are not specific locations.
Then there are certain roller coasters that ARE tourist destinations.....😁

[tonyq]

I’m a little surprised we have five pages of comments, and no-one has really mentioned the ‘people’ aspects of this plan.

I’m not a psychologist, but I’d have thought putting four strangers, of an unknown mix of ages and genders, into a taxi-sized vehicle for five days, comes with all sorts of challenges and issues. And that’s before you shoot them all into Space!

Where are the professional astronauts to fly this vehicle coming from?

Who is going to vet these passengers, and who will train them? Not NASA. Not Roscosmos.

Who is going to determine if they are suitable to work as a team?

Considering that their main qualification will be access to vast sums of money, and a big ego, what could possibly go wrong....

This whole thing has the makings of a great psychological drama-come-disaster movie.

[envy887]

I’m a little surprised we have five pages of comments, and no-one has really mentioned the ‘people’ aspects of this plan.

I’m not a psychologist, but I’d have thought putting four strangers, of an unknown mix of ages and genders, into a taxi-sized vehicle for five days, comes with all sorts of challenges and issues. And that’s before you shoot them all into Space!

Where are the professional astronauts to fly this vehicle coming from?

Who is going to vet these passengers, and who will train them? Not NASA. Not Roscosmos.

Who is going to determine if they are suitable to work as a team?

Considering that their main qualification will be access to vast sums of money, and a big ego, what could possibly go wrong....

This whole thing has the makings of a great psychological drama-come-disaster movie.

Might I suggest you read up on what Spaceflight Adventures, Inc. does?

And Dragon is a robo-taxi, it doesn't need professional astronauts to fly it. The professionals in charge will be on the ground.

[tonyq]

I’m a little surprised we have five pages of comments, and no-one has really mentioned the ‘people’ aspects of this plan.

I’m not a psychologist, but I’d have thought putting four strangers, of an unknown mix of ages and genders, into a taxi-sized vehicle for five days, comes with all sorts of challenges and issues. And that’s before you shoot them all into Space!

Where are the professional astronauts to fly this vehicle coming from?

Who is going to vet these passengers, and who will train them? Not NASA. Not Roscosmos.

Who is going to determine if they are suitable to work as a team?

Considering that their main qualification will be access to vast sums of money, and a big ego, what could possibly go wrong....

This whole thing has the makings of a great psychological drama-come-disaster movie.

Might I suggest you read up on what Spaceflight Adventures, Inc. does?

And Dragon is a robo-taxi, it doesn't need professional astronauts to fly it. The professionals in charge will be on the ground.

Don’t patronise me. I suspect that I know a good deal more about Space Adventures track record, and history, than you do!

You should perhaps do a little reading yourself. Space Adventures do not have any direct experience, or competence, in the areas I have mentioned. To date, they have merely acted as a broker, between rich people, and Roscosmos. The latter have provided all the services I’ve mentioned.

They are moving into wholly new territory here.  The questions I’ve posed, still stand. Who is going to examine and certify these people?

Regarding the ‘astronauts on the ground’ aspect, I would doubt very much that the FAA, or other competent authorities, would sanction such a flight, without a qualified astronaut onboard, and in command.

[matthewkantar]

They are not babies, they are grownups who can sign waivers in the presence of lawyers and cameras. Let the folks with the money decide wether they (and fellow travelers) are fit for flight.

[abaddon]

Regarding the ‘astronauts on the ground’ aspect, I would doubt very much that the FAA, or other competent authorities, would sanction such a flight, without a qualified astronaut onboard, and in command.

People will sign waivers and the FAA will only care if there is a risk to the general population.  Not a problem.

Blue Origin's suborbital capsule will also be fully autonomous without an "astronaut commander" for another example of this model.

[envy887]

I’m a little surprised we have five pages of comments, and no-one has really mentioned the ‘people’ aspects of this plan.

I’m not a psychologist, but I’d have thought putting four strangers, of an unknown mix of ages and genders, into a taxi-sized vehicle for five days, comes with all sorts of challenges and issues. And that’s before you shoot them all into Space!

Where are the professional astronauts to fly this vehicle coming from?

Who is going to vet these passengers, and who will train them? Not NASA. Not Roscosmos.

Who is going to determine if they are suitable to work as a team?

Considering that their main qualification will be access to vast sums of money, and a big ego, what could possibly go wrong....

This whole thing has the makings of a great psychological drama-come-disaster movie.

Might I suggest you read up on what Spaceflight Adventures, Inc. does?

And Dragon is a robo-taxi, it doesn't need professional astronauts to fly it. The professionals in charge will be on the ground.

Don’t patronise me. I suspect that I know a good deal more about Space Adventures track record, and history, than you do!

You should perhaps do a little reading yourself. Space Adventures do not have any direct experience, or competence, in the areas I have mentioned. To date, they have merely acted as a broker, between rich people, and Roscosmos. The latter have provided all the services I’ve mentioned.

They are moving into wholly new territory here.  The questions I’ve posed, still stand. Who is going to examine and certify these people?

Regarding the ‘astronauts on the ground’ aspect, I would doubt very much that the FAA, or other competent authorities, would sanction such a flight, without a qualified astronaut onboard, and in command.

Sorry, many people post first and read later. I'm certainly not immune.

In this case, Space Adventures will do what they have always done: connect rich people with those who know how to vet, train, and approve them. In this case, they are probably paying SpaceX to do those things. I'd also be interested in more details on the training if anyone can find them.

The FAA rules on commercial spaceflight are very clear: only 1) informed consent and 2) an appropriate vehicle test program are required. They say nothing about needing a babysitter onboard. SpaceX will have already conducted the vehicle test program to meet NASA requirement, so as far as the FAA is concerned they will be allowed to launch anyone who signs on the dotted line.

[su27k]

And Dragon is a robo-taxi, it doesn't need professional astronauts to fly it. The professionals in charge will be on the ground.

This does raise the question: What about the manual controls? For example the abort lever, or the deorbit now button.

[envy887]

And Dragon is a robo-taxi, it doesn't need professional astronauts to fly it. The professionals in charge will be on the ground.

This does raise the question: What about the manual controls? For example the abort lever, or the deorbit now button.

Somebody should write "How to Fly a Dragon For Dummies"

[woods170]

And Dragon is a robo-taxi, it doesn't need professional astronauts to fly it. The professionals in charge will be on the ground.

This does raise the question: What about the manual controls? For example the abort lever, or the deorbit now button.

People here seem to assume that the four rich folks will be the only ones onboard such a solo-flight of Crew Dragon.

Here's news for you: wrong assumption.

[envy887]

And Dragon is a robo-taxi, it doesn't need professional astronauts to fly it. The professionals in charge will be on the ground.

This does raise the question: What about the manual controls? For example the abort lever, or the deorbit now button.

People here seem to assume that the four rich folks will be the only ones onboard such a solo-flight of Crew Dragon.

Here's news for you: wrong assumption.

I thought Dragon was limited to 4 by seat position change due to NASA requirements for landing impact forces on the crew. Will they redesign the interior for a private flight to seat a 5th professional crewmember, and are the impact loads no longer an issue?

[tonyq]

And Dragon is a robo-taxi, it doesn't need professional astronauts to fly it. The professionals in charge will be on the ground.

This does raise the question: What about the manual controls? For example the abort lever, or the deorbit now button.

People here seem to assume that the four rich folks will be the only ones onboard such a solo-flight of Crew Dragon.

Here's news for you: wrong assumption.

Don't include me in that number! I thought it was frigging obvious that at least one professional, experienced, astronaut would be onboard and in command.

Some of the language being used on here suggests that some posters see this venture like an extreme theme park ride. They are wrong too.

As such, the process of choosing people will not be done by bankers and lawyers, with waivers and indemnities, but by aerospace professionals, doctors and psychologists, whoever they may work for.

For safety, and success, money will only be a part of the picture.

[woods170]

And Dragon is a robo-taxi, it doesn't need professional astronauts to fly it. The professionals in charge will be on the ground.

This does raise the question: What about the manual controls? For example the abort lever, or the deorbit now button.

People here seem to assume that the four rich folks will be the only ones onboard such a solo-flight of Crew Dragon.

Here's news for you: wrong assumption.

I thought Dragon was limited to 4 by seat position change due to NASA requirements for landing impact forces on the crew. Will they redesign the interior for a private flight to seat a 5th professional crewmember, and are the impact loads no longer an issue?

That four seat limitation is for NASA Crew Dragon. People need to stop assuming that the Crew Dragon for private missions is identical to NASA Crew Dragon.

There will be differences.

[CorvusCorax]

Warning:
You have pulled the abort lever.
This will terminate your space mission prematurely. There will be no refund.
Abort is a high G maneuver. SpaceX is not to be held liable for any damages or injury resulting from a passenger initiated abort.
Are you sure you want to abort?

<yes get me out of here>        <no, continue flight>

[su27k]

Warning:
You have pulled the abort lever.
This will terminate your space mission prematurely. There will be no refund.
Abort is a high G maneuver. SpaceX is not to be held liable for any damages or injury resulting from a passenger initiated abort.
Are you sure you want to abort?

<yes get me out of here>        <no, continue flight>

  I was thinking they may want to disable the manual controls if it's just 4 rich folks flying alone.

[punder]

I’m a little surprised we have five pages of comments, and no-one has really mentioned the ‘people’ aspects of this plan.

I’m not a psychologist, but I’d have thought putting four strangers, of an unknown mix of ages and genders, into a taxi-sized vehicle for five days, comes with all sorts of challenges and issues. And that’s before you shoot them all into Space!

Where are the professional astronauts to fly this vehicle coming from?

Who is going to vet these passengers, and who will train them? Not NASA. Not Roscosmos.

Who is going to determine if they are suitable to work as a team?

Considering that their main qualification will be access to vast sums of money, and a big ego, what could possibly go wrong....

This whole thing has the makings of a great psychological drama-come-disaster movie.

Just what exactly do you think these individuals, all of whom would have to be highly motivated and disciplined to have reached this point, all of whom spent a great deal of money to get here, and who have probably trained together... are going to do? Riot at the first fart? Come on.

[Steven Pietrobon]

Dragon 2 is designed to carry up to seven astronauts. From a 2011 version of its website! That $20M per seat price would be $23M today, accounting just for inflation.

"By comparison, Dragon is designed to carry seven astronauts at a time for an unparalleled $20 million per seat."

https://web.archive.org/web/20120503032852/http://www.spacex.com/press.php?page=20111020

[ncb1397]

...Folks like Dennis Tito and Mark Shuttleworth were much more annoying to NASA than most people realize. NASA detested that the Russians sold surplus seats to Space Adventures.

I remember watching the video of Tito boarding the station. Each astronaut got a big hug from the current crew as they came through the hatch. Except for Tito. They just sort of left him floating there. It was a deliberate, planned insult.

Three people walk into walmart. 2 are walmart employees and get hugs from other walmart coworkers. The third one is a customer and doesn't get a hug. Seems normal to me.

[Alexphysics]

Dragon 2 is designed to carry up to seven astronauts. From a 2011 version of its website! That $20M per seat price would be $23M today, accounting just for inflation.

"By comparison, Dragon is designed to carry seven astronauts at a time for an unparalleled $20 million per seat."

https://web.archive.org/web/20120503032852/http://www.spacex.com/press.php?page=20111020

Ah yes, when they thought Crew Dragon missions would cost like Dragon 1 missions then the seat price went to $31M for a full capsule with 7 astronauts. With reuse integrated into it and with less requirements to meet than for a NASA mission it can realistically get to around $20M but not precisely because of Crew Dragon being as cheap as they thought it would be back then.