Author Topic: Canceled: SpaceX F9 : Space Adventures private Dragon flight  (Read 48082 times)

Offline freddo411

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What I find very interesting is the other "record" that would be broken.
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Fly further from Earth than anyone in the last 50 years".

That would be a world altitude record for a grammatical error in the 21st century.  It should be "farther". ;)

But seriously....
The highest the Shuttle went was 620 km when servicing Hubble.
So the flight is planned to over 620 km.
An interesting choice for a flight under one week.

This would probably land in the ocean, like Dragon 2 missions to the ISS will have by then.
But could they land in the desert, using SuperDracos and coming to rest directly on the heat shield?



My guess is they will not land on land.   

If they do return to land, and use thrusters, then they have difficult potential contamination issues right outside their spacecraft.    They won't have any experience with this issue prior to these commercial tourist flights; seems like that might be a good reason not to do that.

I'm hoping I'm wrong.   I'm hoping that the improved experience is worth the investment
« Last Edit: 02/19/2020 06:03 am by freddo411 »

Offline QuantumG

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heh, so they lost their fight to get private astronauts on the ISS.

What a surprise.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline wannamoonbase

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Been waiting to see this become a real thing.
Starship, Vulcan and Ariane 6 have all reached orbit.  New Glenn, well we are waiting!

Offline Phil Stooke

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Off topic I know, but you can safely ignore the grammar lesson.

"Fly further from Earth than anyone in the last 50 years".
"That would be a world altitude record for a grammatical error in the 21st century.  It should be "farther"  "

The two words are synonyms when referring to distance.  Further has other meanings (more, additional etc.) which are not synonymous with Farther, but in this case either will do. 

Of course, there is always the dad joke about the young boy and his elderly relative on the bus.  As more people got on the driver called 'please move farther down the bus'.  The boy replied 'It's not Father, it's grandfather'.  But the driver could have said 'further' and avoided further embarrassment.

Offline Dante2121

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Does dragon even have a good toilet?

Offline joek

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Does dragon even have a good toilet?
Heh; I'll take that as a humorous counterpoint.  And if not... define "good".  Apollo and Gemini crews managed; if you can't handle it, you should not be on this mission.

Offline ThePonjaX

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Well apart from the very interesting toilet question, some other questions:
Is going to be a new dragon or a refurbished one?
I think the rocket is going to be a flight proven, to low the cost.
Are they going to do just 1 orbit, 2, or 3 , more?

Online armchairfan

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Some of the above questions are answered on the Space Adventures LEO webpage:
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The Dragon low-Earth orbit spaceflight will fly a similar mission profile to the Gemini XI mission. Gemini XI was a NASA mission flown in 1966. Astronauts Pete Conrad and Richard Gordon spent 3 days in low-Earth orbit completing 44 orbits of the Earth. The spacecraft flew an elliptical orbit, with an altitude of 300 km as its closest point to Earth, and 1,350 km at its highest.

The price for this mission is in the same range as past private orbital spaceflights.

Expected launch: Late 2021 - Mid 2022 from Cape Canaveral
Flight duration: up to 5 days
Training: a few weeks conducted in the USA
Spacecraft: SpaceX Crew Dragon
No doubt the elliptical orbit was chosen in part for the dramatically different views of the earth at various altitudes. Here's a set of Gemini XI pics that they show on their website.

Offline freddo411

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Well apart from the very interesting toilet question, some other questions:
Is going to be a new dragon or a refurbished one?
I think the rocket is going to be a flight proven, to low the cost.
Are they going to do just 1 orbit, 2, or 3 , more?


For 20 million bucks a person ( speculative price ), they will orbit for days.

Offline high road

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This mission is a nice stepping stone though for SpaceX, between ISS crewed Dragon ops and the circumlunar Starship flight.

I think price will be the big issue for what the demand is. A few days in a capsule is rather different from a week or more on the ISS. Not sure the higher altitude of this Dragon flight will be a big draw, although the drastically reduced training time (weeks not months) may bring in a number of people who baulk at the time needed to prepare to visit the ISS.

By the time this mission actually launches, they'll probably be thinking about (sub)orbital hops with StarShip. Spread the costs over many more seats. So I doubt this will be a recurring thing.

Online M.E.T.

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OK, might as well use Dragon while it’s around - which won’t be long once Starship is operational. Other than for legacy customers like NASA with their archaic capsule based flight requirements.

Offline nuukee

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From the Spaceflight now article (https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/02/18/space-adventures-announces-plans-to-launch-private-citizens-on-spacex-crew-capsule/):

"Eric Anderson, chairman of Space Adventures, suggested on Twitter that the price per seat could be less than $50 million.

Responding to a question on Twitter about a possible price tag of $52 million per seat, Anderson tweeted: “Per seat price for a full group of four not quite that much (not dramatically less, but significant enough to note). Definitive pricing confidential, and dependent on client specific requests, etc.”"

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Here’s the tweet and another of interest:

twitter.com/beatsbykana/status/1229814778111000576

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Now I just need to borrow 52 million dollars and I'm set

https://twitter.com/ec_anderson/status/1229840671856615424

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Per seat price for a full group of four not quite that much (not dramatically less, but significant enough to note). Definitive pricing confidential, and dependent on client specific requests etc

So 40 to 50m a seat?

https://twitter.com/ec_anderson/status/1229821309087100929

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Several potential customers already. It’s a new concept, as ppl become more familiar and educated more qualified candidates will emerge. Firm commitments likelier after first crew launch in a couple months.

https://twitter.com/ec_anderson/status/1229819192871964674

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Dragon in this profile allows up to 5 days. 3 days is probably ideal, 40-50 orbits or so.

Offline TrevorMonty

While NASA only wants new ones for its crew missions doesn't mean SpaceX can't use used Crew Dragons for private missions.

If it works out they could place 2nd dragon in same orbit as mini station to give future missions a bit more living space. With extra space could fly 6-7 passengers per mission. Also acts as backup return and rescue vehicle.
« Last Edit: 02/19/2020 11:49 am by TrevorMonty »

Online M.E.T.

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How about putting a Starship up there for living space, presuming that Starship human flights will take much longer to qualify than its initial cargo capability?

So put a Starship up there as an alternative space station, and then fly tourists up there for extended visits via Dragon.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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twitter.com/anoushehansari/status/1229933350414176256

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Hummmm sounds really intriguing May be there is a frequent flyer discount :)

https://twitter.com/ec_anderson/status/1229937517329174529

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It's hard to say no to you Anousheh

https://twitter.com/thaddeusces/status/1230116377517793280

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I’m in!  How does that discount work?

Offline TrevorMonty

How about putting a Starship up there for living space, presuming that Starship human flights will take much longer to qualify than its initial cargo capability?

So put a Starship up there as an alternative space station, and then fly tourists up there for extended visits via Dragon.
Can also double as rescue and backup return vehicle. Not sure on its in orbit life. With 2 dragons they can be rotated.

Ideally launch Dragon on SS then SpaceX get 3 for 1
LV
Space habitat
Backup crew vehicle.

Online M.E.T.

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How about putting a Starship up there for living space, presuming that Starship human flights will take much longer to qualify than its initial cargo capability?

So put a Starship up there as an alternative space station, and then fly tourists up there for extended visits via Dragon.
Can also double as rescue and backup return vehicle. Not sure on its in orbit life. With 2 dragons they can be rotated.

Ideally launch Dragon on SS then SpaceX get 3 for 1
LV
Space habitat
Backup crew vehicle.

Yes, considering that Starship might be ready to go to orbit in a couple of years, but might take 5 or more years to be safe enough to reliably land with humans aboard.

So it is just taking humans up and down safely that will require Dragon for the foreseeable future. For the time they spend in space and to get the hardware and cargo up there cheaply, Starship will be available soon.
« Last Edit: 02/19/2020 01:06 pm by M.E.T. »

Online M.E.T.

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It states here the price is likely to be $10-15 million.

https://www.space.com/spacex-crew-dragon-will-fly-space-tourists.html

Highly unlikely to be profitable at that price. Not with Dragon thrown into the mix.

Offline mandrewa

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It states here the price is likely to be $10-15 million.

https://www.space.com/spacex-crew-dragon-will-fly-space-tourists.html

The article you linked to has been updated this morning.  It now gives $35 million for the last person to pay for a trip on the Soyuz to the ISS, and says that prices are expected to be in "the same range."

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