Canceled: SpaceX F9 : Space Adventures private Dragon flight

[Comga]

With the latest design review approved by NASA, SpaceX can now start building the hardware at the heart of its innovative launch abort system. The SpaceX design incorporates the escape engines into the side walls of Dragon, eliminating a failure mode of more traditional rocket escape towers, which must be successfully jettisoned during every launch. The integrated abort system also returns with the spacecraft, allowing for easy reuse and radical reductions in the cost of space transport. Over time, the same escape thrusters will also provide Dragon with the ability to land with pinpoint accuracy on Earth or another planet.

What a delightful trip down Memory Lane, Steven.
Thank you.
It all seemed so straight forward in 2011.
Things have been so much more difficult, but better in many ways. However those prices almost comic.

I don’t know how many times these private flights have been touted, but some of us can hope this one succeeds.   

[ChrisC]

Note: above quote is from this 2011 SpaceX press release that Steven P linked to yesterday.

[MattMason]

"There's no way a BEAM and a Crew Dragon could dock, so no. "

Dock elsewhere and transit to BEAM?  Lots of ways to do things...

BEAM was a technology demonstrator, intended to be disposed of after its 2-year test of its radiation, pressure and micrometeoroid qualities.

It passed those tests so spectacularly that NASA chose to keep the module aboard semi-permanently--as a storage closet.

BEAM has no windows and cannot be used for habitation as it possesses no means of life support, cooling or heating. The hatch to it is normally closed with only a ventilation hose between it and the station.

Any Bigelow module for habitation will be built specifically for that--but Bigelow waived on that with the ISS and Axiom Space is going forward with commercial ISS modules under a NASA agreement.

[TrevorMonty]

While NASA may not allow propulsive landing of their Dragon missions, it doesn't mean SpaceX can't use it for commercial missions. For tourism flights its worth working on as it would save lot money and time turning around a Dragon.

[Comga]

While NASA may not allow propulsive landing of their Dragon missions, it doesn't mean SpaceX can't use it for commercial missions. For tourism flights its worth working on as it would save lot money and time turning around a Dragon.

While I have suggested something like this in the past, you don’t know if any of your statements are true.
SpaceX would have to test a major change like dry land landing at least once before putting people on it.
We don’t know the costs of a test flight, which expends at least the second stage and trunk, vs one or more retrieval runs off the coast of Florida with their dedicated ships.

Edit: It would also expend at least the heat shield. There are no legs under Dragon 2.

[yg1968]

Space Adventures Inc. of Vienna, Virginia, also has teamed up with SpaceX. Planned for late next year, this five-day-or-so mission would skip the space station and instead orbit two to three times higher for more sweeping views of Earth. The cost: around $35 million. It’s also advertising rides to the space station via Boeing Starliner and Russian Soyuz capsules.

https://apnews.com/e57b0241cac209caad4f16b88a2b6377

https://twitter.com/ec_anderson/status/1269448731570532352

A new era of amateur astronauts: @SpaceAdventures also has teamed up with @SpaceX. Planned for late next year, this five-day-or-so mission would skip the space station and instead orbit two to three times higher for more sweeping views of Earth.

[DistantTemple]

And Dragon is a robo-taxi, it doesn't need professional astronauts to fly it. The professionals in charge will be on the ground.

This does raise the question: What about the manual controls? For example the abort lever, or the deorbit now button.

People here seem to assume that the four rich folks will be the only ones onboard such a solo-flight of Crew Dragon.

Here's news for you: wrong assumption.

I thought Dragon was limited to 4 by seat position change due to NASA requirements for landing impact forces on the crew. Will they redesign the interior for a private flight to seat a 5th professional crewmember, and are the impact loads no longer an issue?

That four seat limitation is for NASA Crew Dragon. People need to stop assuming that the Crew Dragon for private missions is identical to NASA Crew Dragon.

There will be differences.

If up to 4 billionaires are paying somewhere between 20 and $60M for a ride in a Dragon, whether it is to the ISS or "just" to orbit, it makes sense that there is a SpaceX "customer services attendant" (pilots have come down in the world, as have butlers) to smooth their experience.
This is not just guarding the big red button (ok little black buttons behind a safety panel) but seeing to the expoditionists' food and comfort as well as being their private science, engineering, and geography correspondant and their tour guide. Also that operative will be the "cook" and cleaner. You have to be an expert, to provide (a high class... better than) an airline like meal in zeroG having disappeared the packaging etc!!!! (tubes of goo will be for emergencies only I think at this price)

Anyone going without such a member of the SpaceX "workforce" would need much more extensive training, and have to do without such mollycoddling! They would have to be skilled campers! But would get privacy. Obviously a team could carefully craft a programme, and experience, at this price, not just blast them into deprived solitude for a week!

The "spacecraft manager" (pick your designation) will be the heart of discretion, decorum, .......... etc.

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

With the definet support of NASA for capsule reuse. These adventurer flights could use used (refurbished) capsules and used boosters to lower the cost/price of a crew flight to as low as $90M. With a full complement of 7. One SpaceX employee and 6 customers that is $15M each. At complement of 4 with only 3 customers that is $30M each.

For most customers having more room is probably worth the extra $15M. It also means no modification from that of a NASA used capsule other than the customized seats adjusted for size per person.

[TrevorMonty]

Place Dragon XL in orbit permanently as destination and they would have room to carry 7. Use XL for sleeping and livibg space with D2 providing bathroom and life supply. Keep all comsumerables on visiting Dragon.

NB could do it now refurbished cargo Dragon.

[Oersted]

And it would give the heat shield quite a beating on the way back.

Just the SpaceX way of doing things: experiementing on other people's money.  :-)

[Zed_Noir]

Place Dragon XL in orbit permanently as destination and they would have room to carry 7. Use XL for sleeping and livibg space with D2 providing bathroom and life supply. Keep all comsumerables on visiting Dragon.

NB could do it now refurbished cargo Dragon.

Well the Dragon XL will need an upgraded docking port first to be able to received a docking attempt.

After that, wouldn't be that hard to installed a 3 or 4 segment pressurized module derived from the Cygnus PCM with a cupola on top of the Dragon XL. SpaceX need to test out the extended payload fairing and Dragon XL after all.

[Comga]

This is becoming “what can SpaceX cobble together as a private space station” instead of a discussion of the announced Space Adventures Flight about a year and a half from now.
There must be a better thread for that.

[JAFO]

Still going to have to poop and be space sick in an area the size of a VW camper bus in zero G with little privacy. Wonder who will be willing to do that vs bragging rights?

[darkenfast]

Still going to have to poop and be space sick in an area the size of a VW camper bus in zero G with little privacy. Wonder who will be willing to do that vs bragging rights?

The same kind of adventure-oriented wealthy person who goes up Mount Everest.  It'll cost more but be a lot easier physically.

[Zed_Noir]

From post in the "Upcoming Talks - SpaceX Related" thread
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43154.msg2093611#msg2093611

In interview podcast done by Aviationweek's Irene Klotz with Gwynne Shotwell.

Shotwell stated that SpaceX will unlikely to have it's own astronaut aboard the crewed Dragon due to lack of seats.

She later said that SpaceX is thinking of have one of the passengers in each of the upcoming private Dragon flights trained to a higher level. To be the vehicle operator/commander IMO.

So who pays to get the more qualified passenger in a private Dragon flight trained? 

[Lars-J]

From post in the "Upcoming Talks - SpaceX Related" thread
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43154.msg2093611#msg2093611

In interview podcast done by Aviationweek's Irene Klotz with Gwynne Shotwell.

Shotwell stated that SpaceX will unlikely to have it's own astronaut aboard the crewed Dragon due to lack of seats.

She later said that SpaceX is thinking of have one of the passengers in each of the upcoming private Dragon flights trained to a higher level. To be the vehicle operator/commander IMO.

So who pays to get the more qualified passenger in a private Dragon flight trained?

The company that charters the flight - Axiom or Soave Adventures - I would think.

They (and SpaceX) will likely poach astronaut talent from NASA, or hire recently retired ones.

Michael López-Alegría already works for Axiom, so I would consider his participation in the first Axiom mission as very likely. SpaceX also has Garret Reisman, who worked for the but still does consulting with them, he could be a potential candidate for a near future mission. I’m sure there are others.

[smisamore]

From post in the "Upcoming Talks - SpaceX Related" thread
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43154.msg2093611#msg2093611

In interview podcast done by Aviationweek's Irene Klotz with Gwynne Shotwell.

Shotwell stated that SpaceX will unlikely to have it's own astronaut aboard the crewed Dragon due to lack of seats.

She later said that SpaceX is thinking of have one of the passengers in each of the upcoming private Dragon flights trained to a higher level. To be the vehicle operator/commander IMO.

So who pays to get the more qualified passenger in a private Dragon flight trained?

The company that charters the flight - Axiom or Soave Adventures - I would think.

They (and SpaceX) will likely poach astronaut talent from NASA, or hire recently retired ones.

Michael López-Alegría already works for Axiom, so I would consider his participation in the first Axiom mission as very likely. SpaceX also has Garret Reisman, who worked for the but still does consulting with them, he could be a potential candidate for a near future mission. I’m sure there are others.

Actually, didn't Garret kind of already... "volunteer"?? 

Image credit :
Walter Scriptunas II on Twitter.  @scriptunasphoto

[tonyq]

From post in the "Upcoming Talks - SpaceX Related" thread
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43154.msg2093611#msg2093611

In interview podcast done by Aviationweek's Irene Klotz with Gwynne Shotwell.

Shotwell stated that SpaceX will unlikely to have it's own astronaut aboard the crewed Dragon due to lack of seats.

She later said that SpaceX is thinking of have one of the passengers in each of the upcoming private Dragon flights trained to a higher level. To be the vehicle operator/commander IMO.

So who pays to get the more qualified passenger in a private Dragon flight trained? 

I only picked up on Shotwell's comments today, and reviewing the transcript, what she actually said is:-

"We'll fly Dragon 2 autonomously and we'll opt to work on ensuring that, uh, at least one of the astronauts -- one of the private passengers -- are trained up enough to be in charge."

This seems to say, that one of the paying passengers will be given additional training to be 'in charge'. They're not looking for, or expecting to use, ex-astronauts for this role. Ex-astronauts who would probably want paying. By training a paying passenger, the overall economics of such mission would look rather different. Presumably, that 'passenger in charge' would have some appropriate background, and core skills, for the role.

Some of you may have previously seen my 'blog' about an Austrian/German pilot, Johanna Maislinger, who has been on Space Adventures books, as a would-be client for their Soyuz mission, also in late 2021. It is beyond any doubt that she is a client, and in continuing negotiations with Space Adventures, although the source of her funding remains opaque.

https://spacesleuth2.blogspot.com/2019/01/could-this-pilot-be-europes-next-woman.html

If Space Adventures were looking for a paying client with the mix of skills to be 'in charge' an experienced commercial pilot, with a medical degree, and a background in engineering, would surely be a almost ideal candidate.

Perhaps Space Adventures will look to steer Johanna Maislinger towards this role, rather than the Soyuz visit to the ISS?

Of course, in throwing this speculation out there, I have no knowledge of how many other clients Space Adventures may have, in the overall mix.

[zubenelgenubi: tonyq corrected the blogspot link.]

[scr00chy]

Today's announcement means SpaceX now has 4 private space tourism missions on the books:

Q4 2021 — Inspiration4 free flyer
Q1 2022 — Axiom's AX-1 to the ISS
2022 — Space Adventures' free flyer
2023 — Yusaku Maezawa's @dearmoonproject on Starship

(emphasis mine)

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1356376011563282434

[hektor]

Is this project still active or given Inspiration 4 success, potential Space Adventures customers now negotiate directly with SpaceX ?