Quote from: LouScheffer on 11/28/2020 04:25 amUpon closer inspection, I'm changing my estimates. By counting, there are only 1563 antennas on the board. Therefore each small chip cannot drive 3 antennas. The same results can be obtained by superimposing the component side and antenna side, which shows each small chip drives 2 antennas. It also shows that around the edges, many elements have no corresponding small chip. This makes sense - you would want the outer edges antennas to be dummies, so that every active element is surrounded by 6 other antennas and sees the same environment. Also, the digital circuits take some room, and it looks like the RF spots under them are also not driven.So overall, I now think there are 72 big chips, each driving 8 small chips, each driving 2 antennas, for a total of 1152 active elements in the array. The others, all round the edge, are dummies to preserve a uniform electromagnetic environment for the active elements, and to make room for the other needed circuits.I counted 1336 antennas. (Double checking of counts and math welcome.)Bottom group (344):- rows of 8 to 18 antennas (incremented by 1)- rows of 17 to 21 antennas (by 1)- rows of 20 to 22 antennas (by 1)- rows of 21 and 22 antennasCenter group (648):- one row of 23 antennas- 15 pairs of rows with 22 and 23 antennas in each row pairTop group (344):- same as the bottom groupThe video indicates 79 larger chips, not 72. I counted 79 as well.That allows 632 smaller chips. If two antennas per smaller chip, then 1264, which agrees well with 1336 minus border cells. As you (I think) pointed out, some larger chips may have fewer than 8 smaller chips attached to them.I agree that some of the edge cells are likely to be passive/grounded or parasitic to modify the beam edge characteristics.
Upon closer inspection, I'm changing my estimates. By counting, there are only 1563 antennas on the board. Therefore each small chip cannot drive 3 antennas. The same results can be obtained by superimposing the component side and antenna side, which shows each small chip drives 2 antennas. It also shows that around the edges, many elements have no corresponding small chip. This makes sense - you would want the outer edges antennas to be dummies, so that every active element is surrounded by 6 other antennas and sees the same environment. Also, the digital circuits take some room, and it looks like the RF spots under them are also not driven.So overall, I now think there are 72 big chips, each driving 8 small chips, each driving 2 antennas, for a total of 1152 active elements in the array. The others, all round the edge, are dummies to preserve a uniform electromagnetic environment for the active elements, and to make room for the other needed circuits.
The video indicates 79 larger chips, not 72. I counted 79 as well.That allows 632 smaller chips. If two antennas per smaller chip, then 1264, which agrees well with 1336 minus border cells. [...]I agree that some of the edge cells are likely to be passive/grounded or parasitic to modify the beam edge characteristics.
Quote from: groknull on 11/28/2020 08:25 pmQuote from: LouScheffer on 11/28/2020 04:25 amUpon closer inspection, I'm changing my estimates. By counting, there are only 1563 antennas on the board. Therefore each small chip cannot drive 3 antennas. The same results can be obtained by superimposing the component side and antenna side, which shows each small chip drives 2 antennas. It also shows that around the edges, many elements have no corresponding small chip. This makes sense - you would want the outer edges antennas to be dummies, so that every active element is surrounded by 6 other antennas and sees the same environment. Also, the digital circuits take some room, and it looks like the RF spots under them are also not driven.So overall, I now think there are 72 big chips, each driving 8 small chips, each driving 2 antennas, for a total of 1152 active elements in the array. The others, all round the edge, are dummies to preserve a uniform electromagnetic environment for the active elements, and to make room for the other needed circuits.I counted 1336 antennas. (Double checking of counts and math welcome.)Bottom group (344):- rows of 8 to 18 antennas (incremented by 1)- rows of 17 to 21 antennas (by 1)- rows of 20 to 22 antennas (by 1)- rows of 21 and 22 antennasCenter group (648):- one row of 23 antennas- 15 pairs of rows with 22 and 23 antennas in each row pairTop group (344):- same as the bottom groupThe video indicates 79 larger chips, not 72. I counted 79 as well.That allows 632 smaller chips. If two antennas per smaller chip, then 1264, which agrees well with 1336 minus border cells. As you (I think) pointed out, some larger chips may have fewer than 8 smaller chips attached to them.I agree that some of the edge cells are likely to be passive/grounded or parasitic to modify the beam edge characteristics.Upon recount, I get 1463 antennas. I've attached the picture so others can check. From the numbers in each region (defined by blue lines), I get 8*100+90+14+66+77+15+50+24+45+36+78+57+10+86+15 = 1463 antennas.The antennas covered with black lines are those that do not have a full complement of 6 neighbors. There are 132 of these, which I'm sure will not be used, leaving a max of 1463-132 = 1331 active antennas. Others may be unused as well for real estate reasons, or if one row of unused cells around the rim is not enough electrically.
The numbers on your annotated antenna count image need to be tweaked slightly:66 in the upper left corner should be 67 (+1).86 in the lower left corner should be 84 (-2): the element at the extreme corner is not an element - easier to see a few frames later, and that section is hard to count (at least for me).78 in the lower right corner should be 77 (-1).10 in the lower left corner should be 11 (+1). I kept missing that last element because the eye is drawn to the line of 10.57 in the lower right corner should be 59 (+2).This nets out to +1, or 1464 elements.This matches to the per row incremental element recount I did.
What's the lowest frequency these things can use?
The U.S. Patent Office this morning published 8 SpaceX filings for different parts and features of the Starlink antenna:
Quote from: RedLineTrain on 02/09/2021 07:20 pmIt appears to be a useless report because, for instance, it assumes a 17-23 Gbps per satellite bandwidth in 2028, even with the added v-band. This seems unrealistic, given the SpaceX's demonstrated pace of iteration.You're assuming the V-band constellation will actually happen. I'm not so sure about that. Regardless of the V-band situation, that report, which was commissioned by SpaceX competitors, is not so great. It doesn't use the correct orbital planes (for either the existing or proposed constellation layouts).
It appears to be a useless report because, for instance, it assumes a 17-23 Gbps per satellite bandwidth in 2028, even with the added v-band. This seems unrealistic, given the SpaceX's demonstrated pace of iteration.
Quote from: Mandella on 02/18/2021 02:39 amQuote from: OxCartMark on 02/18/2021 12:59 amDetroit area - Just received invitation a few minutes ago and signed up immediately ($99 deposit). Received confirmation email - "Starlink will begin offering service in your area beginning mid to late 2021. Orders will be fulfilled on a first-come, first-served basis. You will be notified via email prior to shipment, and you will be charged the remainder of your balance once your kit ships."I'm happy but very concerned about reports that the dishy requires 100W. If that's continuous 24/7/365 I'll be signing off quickly. Does anyone have any deeper info on power consumption?That 100W sounds not much more than what my Dish/Router/Modem pulls right now for standard satellite, so it's competitive. I also think, but do not know for certain, that Starlink does not pull it's full wattage rating unless it is running its anti-ice heater.But all in all, we're still talking to things in orbit here, so it's going to use some power.My Starlink has averaged 98.4 watts over the last 11 days since I put it on the power monitor, with a peak draw of 185 W. It's been very cold, between -10 and 24 F, and snowy so I think the dish heater has been running most of that time.
Quote from: OxCartMark on 02/18/2021 12:59 amDetroit area - Just received invitation a few minutes ago and signed up immediately ($99 deposit). Received confirmation email - "Starlink will begin offering service in your area beginning mid to late 2021. Orders will be fulfilled on a first-come, first-served basis. You will be notified via email prior to shipment, and you will be charged the remainder of your balance once your kit ships."I'm happy but very concerned about reports that the dishy requires 100W. If that's continuous 24/7/365 I'll be signing off quickly. Does anyone have any deeper info on power consumption?That 100W sounds not much more than what my Dish/Router/Modem pulls right now for standard satellite, so it's competitive. I also think, but do not know for certain, that Starlink does not pull it's full wattage rating unless it is running its anti-ice heater.But all in all, we're still talking to things in orbit here, so it's going to use some power.
Detroit area - Just received invitation a few minutes ago and signed up immediately ($99 deposit). Received confirmation email - "Starlink will begin offering service in your area beginning mid to late 2021. Orders will be fulfilled on a first-come, first-served basis. You will be notified via email prior to shipment, and you will be charged the remainder of your balance once your kit ships."I'm happy but very concerned about reports that the dishy requires 100W. If that's continuous 24/7/365 I'll be signing off quickly. Does anyone have any deeper info on power consumption?
it will happen "when V-transmitters are ready". Of course the FCC application deadlines will be reset. Just like I claimed in the beginning.According to what I hear from ex-colleagues who landed in space comm industry the bottleneck is production capacity of antenna modules which is "bad". Very "bad". Hence everything is too expensive for SpaceX volumes. When this will be solved, you will see new job offers on SpaceX site.
Quote from: dondar on 02/25/2021 10:00 amit will happen "when V-transmitters are ready". Of course the FCC application deadlines will be reset. Just like I claimed in the beginning.According to what I hear from ex-colleagues who landed in space comm industry the bottleneck is production capacity of antenna modules which is "bad". Very "bad". Hence everything is too expensive for SpaceX volumes. When this will be solved, you will see new job offers on SpaceX site.Is that spacex's production or suppliers production?IE does spacex make their own antenna modules?
Quote from: rsdavis9 on 02/25/2021 04:26 pmQuote from: dondar on 02/25/2021 10:00 amit will happen "when V-transmitters are ready". Of course the FCC application deadlines will be reset. Just like I claimed in the beginning.According to what I hear from ex-colleagues who landed in space comm industry the bottleneck is production capacity of antenna modules which is "bad". Very "bad". Hence everything is too expensive for SpaceX volumes. When this will be solved, you will see new job offers on SpaceX site.Is that spacex's production or suppliers production?IE does spacex make their own antenna modules?As far as I understand. The purchase the "pizza dish" mechanical parts "case" and mounting. As well as the cabling and the finished router/wifi box. The internals, the actual phased array and modem circuitry is supposedly manufactured by SpaceX. Plus the custom SpaceX designed chips are a special order which may be on a back order from the chip foundry right now just due to the basic backlog of the chip foundries.
As far as I understand. The purchase the "pizza dish" mechanical parts "case" and mounting.
Quote from: oldAtlas_Eguy on 02/25/2021 08:00 pmAs far as I understand. The purchase the "pizza dish" mechanical parts "case" and mounting.Judging from the job listings over the past year or so, SpaceX is surprisingly vertically integrated on this. For instance, they were hiring for injection molding in Hawthorne. I assume that they ultimately decided to buy rather than build on this type of stuff, but who knows. They do have the old Triumph factory to fill out.