Author Topic: Starlink : Markets and Marketing  (Read 346169 times)

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #980 on: 11/09/2023 07:52 pm »
https://twitter.com/starlink/status/1722718316777841138

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Starlink’s high-speed internet is now available in the Maldives 🛰️🇲🇻❤️→ starlink.com/map

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #981 on: 11/13/2023 03:10 pm »
Starlink is quickly becoming ubiquitous in the maritime industry in large part due to it manufacturing enough terminals to flood the zone.

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We've (Kyklades Maritime) mounted @Starlink systems on 4 out of our 22 ships. By early Q1'24, we aim to outfit the entire fleet. This innovative tech is shaking up marine web services and provides high-quality connectivity.

https://twitter.com/Aristidis/status/1724021996839694615
« Last Edit: 11/13/2023 03:11 pm by RedLineTrain »

Online DanClemmensen

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #982 on: 11/13/2023 04:08 pm »
Starlink is quickly becoming ubiquitous in the maritime industry in large part due to it manufacturing enough terminals to flood the zone.
It cannot be truly "ubiquitous" until service is available anywhere on the the surface of any ocean. I tried looking at the Starlink web site to see if this is true yet and I did not find the answer. To have coverage everywhere, you pretty much need continuous coverage with satellites that have ISL. Does Starlink have ISL for at least a full-coverage sub-constellation?

I can believe Starlink already dominates the maritime comms industry, because most ships don't make trans-ocean voyages, so they can be served by satellites without ISL. The subset of ships that routinely make trans-ocean voyages is relatively small, but these ships are typically willing to pay a lot for service.

Offline OceanCat

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #983 on: 11/13/2023 06:36 pm »
Starlink is quickly becoming ubiquitous in the maritime industry in large part due to it manufacturing enough terminals to flood the zone.
It cannot be truly "ubiquitous" until service is available anywhere on the the surface of any ocean. I tried looking at the Starlink web site to see if this is true yet and I did not find the answer. To have coverage everywhere, you pretty much need continuous coverage with satellites that have ISL. Does Starlink have ISL for at least a full-coverage sub-constellation?

I can believe Starlink already dominates the maritime comms industry, because most ships don't make trans-ocean voyages, so they can be served by satellites without ISL. The subset of ships that routinely make trans-ocean voyages is relatively small, but these ships are typically willing to pay a lot for service.

They sell service in Pitcairn which is literally in the middle of the Pacific ocean. https://support.starlink.com/?topic=c7665b28-0b28-9e61-88a5-87db7b6cf108

About 1400 group 1 satellites in operational orbits don't have ISLs. The rest 3100 satellites do have ISLs.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #984 on: 11/14/2023 05:05 pm »
TradeWinds has an article about the Starlink maritime uptake.

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Elon Musk’s Starlink has more than 5,000 small communication satellites in space and is seeking approval to put up over 40,000. It is estimated that between 7,000 to 8,000 ships have antennas and terminals onboard and are using the service.
This is a phenomenal number, even if partly true, given Starlink only introduced its commercial services for maritime a little more than 18 months ago. Companies such as Maersk, BW Group, and MOL among others have made big announcements about their fleet-wide installation of Starlink, using it among other things to show their crew welfare commitments.
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Joshua Flood, from Valour Consultancy, a satcoms advisory service in the UK. . . told TradeWinds it was likely that Starlink went directly to some larger shipowners and operators as it began to dip its toe into the turbulent maritime communications waters, but soon realised that it would need the help of the reseller market for this; resellers that are already selling connectivity packages using existing Ku, Ka and L-Band offerings that providers such as Intelsat, Inmarsat, Viasat, Eutelsat, Iridium SES and Thuraya offer.
Flood points to the low entry price for Starlink. It is remarkably cheap, and the prices are available on its website. This he suggests could be a challenge for the 40 or so resellers as they gain very little markup.

My guess is that over time, these resellers will have to find a different business model, as the VSAT services that they resell are gradually deprecated or suffer severe price erosion.

Lots of other interesting industry aspects that TradeWinds explores.

https://www.tradewindsnews.com/technology/satcoms-upheaval-can-elon-musk-sprinkle-his-stardust-on-shipping-/2-1-1552576
« Last Edit: 11/14/2023 05:17 pm by RedLineTrain »

Online DanClemmensen

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #985 on: 11/14/2023 05:18 pm »
TradeWinds has an article about the Starlink maritime uptake.

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Elon Musk’s Starlink has more than 5,000 small communication satellites in space and is seeking approval to put up over 40,000. It is estimated that between 7,000 to 8,000 ships have antennas and terminals onboard and are using the service.
This is a phenomenal number, even if partly true, given Starlink only introduced its commercial services for maritime a little more than 18 months ago. Companies such as Maersk, BW Group, and MOL among others have made big announcements about their fleet-wide installation of Starlink, using it among other things to show their crew welfare commitments.
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Joshua Flood, from Valour Consultancy, a satcoms advisory service in the UK. . . told TradeWinds it was likely that Starlink went directly to some larger shipowners and operators as it began to dip its toe into the turbulent maritime communications waters, but soon realised that it would need the help of the reseller market for this; resellers that are already selling connectivity packages using existing Ku, Ka and L-Band offerings that providers such as Intelsat, Inmarsat, Viasat, Eutelsat, Iridium SES and Thuraya offer.
Flood points to the low entry price for Starlink. It is remarkably cheap, and the prices are available on its website. This he suggests could be a challenge for the 40 or so resellers as they gain very little markup.

My guess is that over time, these resellers will have to find a different business model, as the VSAT services that they resell are gradually deprecated or suffer severe price erosion.

https://www.tradewindsnews.com/technology/satcoms-upheaval-can-elon-musk-sprinkle-his-stardust-on-shipping-/2-1-1552576
Also, it's a lot easier to install a Starlink antenna than it is to install a traditional maritime GEO antenna, so the resellers have a lot less value to add.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #986 on: 11/14/2023 05:22 pm »
Yes, the accompanying story box for that article is entitled "The BW Group Story."  Dead simple to install and maintain.  Sounds like any crew member could do it, sufficiently incentivized with bandwidth for keeping in touch with the world.

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BW Group recently announced it has managed to roll out 100 Starlink systems onto 100 ships in half a year. It was a job done by the ships’ crews themselves, guided by the IT shore team of BW Gas. The commercial Starlink hardware is very similar to the commercial systems which are shipped out to consumers for them to install on the roofs of their homes, caravans, and motor yachts.

According to BW Group, it controls 490 vessels overall.
« Last Edit: 11/14/2023 07:06 pm by RedLineTrain »

Offline matthewkantar

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #987 on: 11/14/2023 06:29 pm »
Screenshot from Instagram, advertising?

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #988 on: 11/15/2023 01:09 am »
Also, it's a lot easier to install a Starlink antenna than it is to install a traditional maritime GEO antenna, so the resellers have a lot less value to add.
I use to get a little carried away mounting those 60" Seatel domes. I'm pretty sure you could use the mounts for a lift point.
 I can't imagine showing up with a Starlink antenna.
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Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #989 on: 11/16/2023 07:49 pm »
Don't know when this happened, but Starlink residential price has been reduced to 40 Euros/month in some parts of Europe (e.g, France, Italy, Greece, and Spain, with a 9 Euro/month regulatory fee in Spain additional) and 50 Euros in Germany.

Am I assuming correctly that this is starting to become competitive with DSL in some German towns?

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #990 on: 11/16/2023 08:04 pm »
Don't know when this happened, but Starlink residential price has been reduced to 40 Euros/month in some parts of Europe (e.g, France, Italy, Greece, and Spain, with a 9 Euro/month regulatory fee in Spain additional) and 50 Euros in Germany.

Am I assuming correctly that this is starting to become competitive with DSL in some German towns?

That is very interesting to see the rates coming that low.  I'm also watching for information on terminal costs. 

Being able to sell those for less can really go a long way to open up potential markets.  And how many users per month are being added globally.
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Offline seb21051

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #991 on: 11/17/2023 03:55 am »
|how many users per month are being added globally.

According to Bing Chat:

Starlink has been growing rapidly. As of May 2023, Starlink had 1.5 million users.

1. By September 2023, it had reached 2 million users

2. This means that Starlink added 500,000 users in four months, which is an average of approximately 125,000 new users per month.

3. Please note that these figures are subject to change as new data becomes available.

Edit:- Imagine what it will be when cell phone users start to buy Starlink subscriptions. Wow. By the time Kuiper is ready to send their first production birds up, SX will be testing cell phone functionality.
« Last Edit: 11/17/2023 04:14 am by seb21051 »

Online DanClemmensen

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #992 on: 11/17/2023 04:24 am »
|how many users per month are being added globally.

According to Bing Chat:

Starlink has been growing rapidly. As of May 2023, Starlink had 1.5 million users.

1. By September 2023, it had reached 2 million users

2. This means that Starlink added 500,000 users in four months, which is an average of approximately 125,000 new users per month.

3. Please note that these figures are subject to change as new data becomes available.

Edit:- Imagine what it will be when cell phone users start to buy Starlink subscriptions. Wow. By the time Kuiper is ready to send their first production birds up, SX will be testing cell phone functionality.
Remember that Kuiper cannot begin to offer service instantly. An LEO constellation must have a minimum number of satellites before actual service starts. If Kuiper starts launching mid-2024, they might not be able to start service until mid-2026 or later. It will depend on the availability of their chosen launchers, not the satellites.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #993 on: 11/17/2023 07:03 am »
Don't know when this happened, but Starlink residential price has been reduced to 40 Euros/month in some parts of Europe (e.g, France, Italy, Greece, and Spain, with a 9 Euro/month regulatory fee in Spain additional) and 50 Euros in Germany.

Am I assuming correctly that this is starting to become competitive with DSL in some German towns?

That is very interesting to see the rates coming that low.  I'm also watching for information on terminal costs. 

Being able to sell those for less can really go a long way to open up potential markets.  And how many users per month are being added globally.

Will added that this price reduction is a preemptive move to impose a price ceiling in those markets for satellite internet service providers. Who will either match Starlink's lower customer prices or lose market share with higher prices. In case of new service providers, not gaining significant market share at all.

The pricing strategy is similar to the one employed by Tesla in China and Europe. Tesla lower prices drastically while retaining a small profit margin per battery electric vehicle (BEV) sold. While the competitors had negative or near zero profit margin per BEV sold prior to the 'Tesla Price War' are facing the dilemma of lowering prices resulting in more negative profit margins or lose market share as customers shifted to the cheaper Teslas with compatible performance and features.

Wonder if the European regulators realize this pricing ceiling imposition had happened yet. And what they can do about it afterwards? Will be really unpopular with the consumers if they try to raised the price ceiling back to the previous level. Presuming Starlink still makes a profit for providing internet service at the lower prices.

Going to watch this price war with popcorn.  :P

Online niwax

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #994 on: 11/17/2023 10:42 am »
Don't know when this happened, but Starlink residential price has been reduced to 40 Euros/month in some parts of Europe (e.g, France, Italy, Greece, and Spain, with a 9 Euro/month regulatory fee in Spain additional) and 50 Euros in Germany.

Am I assuming correctly that this is starting to become competitive with DSL in some German towns?

Vodafone Cable is 44.99 for 250/25, Telekom DSL is 47.95 for 100/40. So they are now right in the middle of wired connections, special offer notwithstanding.
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Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #995 on: 11/17/2023 02:57 pm »
Don't know when this happened, but Starlink residential price has been reduced to 40 Euros/month in some parts of Europe (e.g, France, Italy, Greece, and Spain, with a 9 Euro/month regulatory fee in Spain additional) and 50 Euros in Germany.

Am I assuming correctly that this is starting to become competitive with DSL in some German towns?

Vodafone Cable is 44.99 for 250/25, Telekom DSL is 47.95 for 100/40. So they are now right in the middle of wired connections, special offer notwithstanding.

I have heard some complaints about Telekom DSL regarding speed and reliability.  Do those complaints represent a systemic issue, or are those one-off problems?

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #996 on: 11/17/2023 03:37 pm »
Will added that this price reduction is a preemptive move to impose a price ceiling in those markets for satellite internet service providers. Who will either match Starlink's lower customer prices or lose market share with higher prices. In case of new service providers, not gaining significant market share at all.

My guess is that Starlink doesn't see other satellite internet service providers as the relevant competition.  Rather, it's the marginal landline customer:  DSL.  Going after DSL's market would be ambitious, but it's a fairly big business in some countries.  It does strike me as a somewhat price-sensitive market.

That said, I notice that in France, Orange is teaming up with a satellite internet service provider (Eutelsat?) to offer only a slightly more expensive, but inferior service.  So there is at least some intent to compete from the geosat providers.
« Last Edit: 11/17/2023 04:04 pm by RedLineTrain »

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #997 on: 11/17/2023 03:58 pm »
SeatradeMaritime is reporting that the Seafarers Happiness Index indicates that connectivity "is the number one driver for retention of seafarers."  That is why all of these vessels are installing Starlink.  It matters a great deal to the bottom line, so these companies are happy to pay the price.

Also mentioned is the Antarctic Base effect.  Once Starlink is installed, people spend more of their time in their cabin and less time mingling with their crewmates, creating isolation.  Of course, you could say the same thing about people onshore.

https://www.seatrade-maritime.com/crewing/starlink-connectivity-revolution-creating-crew-isolation-issues
« Last Edit: 11/17/2023 04:01 pm by RedLineTrain »

Offline Mandella

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #998 on: 11/17/2023 05:45 pm »
Will added that this price reduction is a preemptive move to impose a price ceiling in those markets for satellite internet service providers. Who will either match Starlink's lower customer prices or lose market share with higher prices. In case of new service providers, not gaining significant market share at all.

My guess is that Starlink doesn't see other satellite internet service providers as the relevant competition.  Rather, it's the marginal landline customer:  DSL.  Going after DSL's market would be ambitious, but it's a fairly big business in some countries.  It does strike me as a somewhat price-sensitive market.

That said, I notice that in France, Orange is teaming up with a satellite internet service provider (Eutelsat?) to offer only a slightly more expensive, but inferior service.  So there is at least some intent to compete from the geosat providers.

About the only thing DSL has going for it is the price, and that price isn't that cheap. Around here in the US Southeast I think it's still around 60 bucks,* which does include a land line. You can theoretically get "naked" DSL for somewhat cheaper.

But then add in the fact that the Telecoms are letting DSL lines rot in place without providing an alternative and Starlink starts looking better and better.

*Edited for accuracy -- I asked a friend and his crappy DSL is running $72.05 per month.
« Last Edit: 11/18/2023 05:37 pm by Mandella »

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #999 on: 11/20/2023 03:54 pm »
More kudos for Starlink Maritime, this time from Aglo-Eastern's employee publication.  More than 120 installations so far in a little over a half-year, with plans to roll out to the rest of its 670 managed vessel fleet (80 more by year-end).  The limiting factor for installation appears to be simply shipping logistics!

These are quite large recurring revenue numbers.  Wouldn't be surprised to see many of these vessels get more than one complete subscription, as the cruise ships do.  That being said, it looks like seafarers are currently allotted only 1 GB of data a month.

The article pushes back on the Antarctic Base effect by saying that time online hasn't increased.  Seafarers described as giving Starlink an "overjoyed response."
« Last Edit: 11/20/2023 04:00 pm by RedLineTrain »

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