Starlink : Markets and Marketing

[tbellman]

UT-sat-UT may be possible , but what is speed for this transmission?

Well over 100 Mbit/s towards the user terminal, and at least 40 Mbit/s from the user terminal, based on reports from actual users.  (https://testmy.net/host-max/spacex_starlink currently says fastest download speed seen the last 30 days was 321 Mbit/s, and fastest upload speed 40.6 Mbit/s.)

Using a user terminal as gateway to connect to some terrestrial fiber network would of course only provide quite limited bandwidth.  It would only be used for special purposes; for example, quickly getting some bandwidth to an area that has become isolated.

[launchwatcher]

UT-sat-UT may be possible , but what is speed for this transmission?

Well over 100 Mbit/s towards the user terminal, and at least 40 Mbit/s from the user terminal, based on reports from actual users.  (https://testmy.net/host-max/spacex_starlink currently says fastest download speed seen the last 30 days was 321 Mbit/s, and fastest upload speed 40.6 Mbit/s.)

Using a user terminal as gateway to connect to some terrestrial fiber network would of course only provide quite limited bandwidth.  It would only be used for special purposes; for example, quickly getting some bandwidth to an area that has become isolated.

It is quite likely that the upload speed observed by regular retail users is artificially limited, and the limit can be raised administratively; failing that, it should be possible to shard traffic across multiple UT's.

The Tonga-Fiji relay might also be a good place to exercise the Starlink Premium hardware.

[spacenut]

I put my $100 up for Starlink several years ago.  I now have AT&T fiber optic cable.  How can I get my money back?  I have no contact number.  Haven't had an email, or a word from them since. 

[SpaceCadet1980]

I put my $100 up for Starlink several years ago.  I now have AT&T fiber optic cable.  How can I get my money back?  I have no contact number.  Haven't had an email, or a word from them since.

I have to ask whether you are just trolling, because it took me less than a minute to find this exact question in the support section of the Starlink website.

https://support.starlink.com/topic?category=5

How do I cancel my deposit? Can I get a refund?

You can initiate a full refund of your deposit by logging into your Account and requesting a refund. The refund will be processed instantly but may take up to 10 days to be reflected in your financial institution account.

Please note that this action is irreversible and canceling your deposit will cause you to lose your place in line.

If you look at their support site it is easy to find the question about forgotten password with the link to the login page and the forgot password button.

P.S. Several years ago? This week marks just 1 year since pre-orders opened.

[spacenut]

Ok, my wife was fussing at me about getting the $100 back.  She couldn't find anything, she said, on the internet.  I found my old emails from SpaceX setting up my account.  I had forgotten about that.  Thanks.  I wasn't trolling, I will proceed.  We, however, would like to get the internet service when they have it available for RV's. 

[Nomadd]

 I'd like to figure out the possibility of standby setups. My last job was getting comms to disaster sites, and right now it looks like you're restricted to the area you put down when you bought the service. I'm not sure if it's for upload time slots or what.
 Even old geo vsats could automatically set timing by sending GPS coordinates first thing.
 Mobile might be more complicated.

[DigitalMan]

I'd like to figure out the possibility of standby setups. My last job was getting comms to disaster sites, and right now it looks like you're restricted to the area you put down when you bought the service. I'm not sure if it's for upload time slots or what.
 Even old geo vsats could automatically set timing by sending GPS coordinates first thing.
 Mobile might be more complicated.

I think someone had posited that the premier dish had no location restrictions. It would be nice to get some clarity in that.

[Barley]

It is quite likely that the upload speed observed by regular retail users is artificially limited, and the limit can be raised administratively; failing that, it should be possible to shard traffic across multiple UT's.

The Tonga-Fiji relay might also be a good place to exercise the Starlink Premium hardware.

Or deploy a ground station at both ends.

[guckyfan]

Or deploy a ground station at both ends.

Can they? It needs to be a single sat. Can a single sat address 2 ground stations? They have two antennas but they are for connecting to another ground station for handover.

[vsatman]

UT-sat-UT may be possible , but what is speed for this transmission?

fastest upload speed 40.6 Mbit/s.)

It is quite likely that the upload speed observed by regular retail users is artificially limited, and the limit can be raised administratively; failing that, it should be possible to shard traffic across multiple UT's.
The Tonga-Fiji relay might also be a good place to exercise the Starlink Premium hardware.

You are right, the transmission time  is artificially limited (Radio hazards issue). For UT-1, it is less than 15% . But for the Premium Terminal, this value can be increased to 50+%,  if it is installed by a professional installer. Apparently then you can expect speeds up to 100 Mbps in this case..

[vsatman]

I'd like to figure out the possibility of standby setups. My last job was getting comms to disaster sites, and right now it looks like you're restricted to the area you put down when you bought the service. I'm not sure if it's for upload time slots or what.
 Even old geo vsats could automatically set timing by sending GPS coordinates first thing.
 Mobile might be more complicated.

I think someone had posited that the premier dish had no location restrictions. It would be nice to get some clarity in that.

my guess is that if the cell is serviced but full and closed to new 100USD users, the premium terminal will be connected. But if the cell is not serviced at all yet, then maybe the presence of a premium terminal in the queue in it will increase the chances of opening it. Perhaps this can be found out by selecting addresses on the Order page on the StarLink website

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

Or deploy a ground station at both ends.

Can they? It needs to be a single sat. Can a single sat address 2 ground stations? They have two antennas but they are for connecting to another ground station for handover.

In the case where 2 or more sats are within "view" of both ground stations. Then a ground station with 2X the number of independent steerable antenna "terminals" than the number of sats being connected too. So that as sats come into and out of view the handovers are almost all related to the Gateways and not the sats. This would give a back-haul capability of 16Gbits X the number of minimum sats in view. Then add in ISL sats which current of>350 so far but unfortunately it will take about 2 months for each from launch date to go into service. It gets easier and easier to do this back-haul since a significant part of it would not be coming from Fiji. But the real key is that with just a continuous launch rate of 2 a month that means that ~100 new ISL sats will come online every month. And before the end of the year there will be >1000 of them active. Or >30% of all the active sats.

Back-haul can do something very significant in this case because it would allow the usage of the local island group still working network capabilities to act as the last mile distribution and no one even has to have a new Starlink UT. With Starlink UT's currently in higher demand that supply it may be far easier to implement the Gateway to Gateway hop back-haul than get a large number of UT's for all the areas that can concentrate internet users in Tonga.

[guckyfan]

You are assuming that the satellites even have a signal path that allows to connect the two downlinks, if I understand correctly. I am not sure of that.

Edit: Except for this situation there is never a need for this signal path.

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

The current version 1.0 and the 1.5 Starlink sats have 2 independent Ka band antennas for connection to 2 separate Gateways simultaneously. But based on orbit and on the location of the Gateways determines the amount of time that 2 Gateways would be available for a short hop.

Fortunately in about 6 or seven months there should be around 800 operational on station ISL sats so that very close to a 24/7 connection to the Internet is supported even without a Gateway in Fiji. I was wondering at first why SpaceX said a temporary Fiji Gateway that would be there for around six months. But since I went through the sat deployment numbers for the ISL sats on orbit I now understand that six months is all that is necessary. After six months if Fiji says remove it will be perfectly fine. Also Fiji may give license for UT's by then so it's removal may not happen with the Gateway becoming permanent.

[Barley]

You are assuming that the satellites even have a signal path that allows to connect the two downlinks, if I understand correctly. I am not sure of that.

Edit: Except for this situation there is never a need for this signal path.

It is possible that such a signal path does not exist, but not likely.

The system will be packet switched not circuit switched.  If it operates as a single router the cross link automatically exists.  There could be separate routers for each direction but even then a crosslink would probably exist.  It's a very cheap link to provide, it adds significant redundancy and operational efficiency and is almost required to support inter satellite links (or as has been proposed elsewhere supporting remote ground stations without a land line) which have been part of the design from day one.

[DanClemmensen]

You are assuming that the satellites even have a signal path that allows to connect the two downlinks, if I understand correctly. I am not sure of that.

Edit: Except for this situation there is never a need for this signal path.

It is possible that such a signal path does not exist, but not likely.

The system will be packet switched not circuit switched.  If it operates as a single router the cross link automatically exists.  There could be separate routers for each direction but even then a crosslink would probably exist.  It's a very cheap link to provide, it adds significant redundancy and operational efficiency and is almost required to support inter satellite links (or as has been proposed elsewhere supporting remote ground stations without a land line) which have been part of the design from day one.

I know nothing about Starlink. The OneWeb satellites use a bent-pipe architecture, i.e., the RF signals are transponded with no conversion into bits. They cannot do "router in the sky".

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

Starlink sats are made such that digital packets can be routed/switched from any up/down/ISL links and any other. It is a fundamental requirement to make the system work as defined in the FCC docs. It is not a bent pipe.

For the standpoint for Fiji and Tonga is that if Fiji is in the comm Ka band footprint at the same time as Tonga is for the Ku band they are most likely are both in the same Ka band footprint by the applicable Ka antennas.

SpaceX would not be doing it if the current sats had no up and down from one island to the other capability.

[vsatman]

Starlink sats are made such that digital packets can be routed/switched from any up/down/ISL links and any other. It is a fundamental requirement to make the system work as defined in the FCC docs. It is not a bent pipe.

can I ask you to quote how it is formulated by the FСС  ?? or give me link to this doc?

[su27k]

Credit Suisse Report Says LEO Constellations Will be Challenged by Increasing Data Use

Credit Suisse released a new report “LEO Disruption: A Starlink in the Making,” which takes a deep dive into the prospects of Low-Earth Orbit (LEO) satellite operators and compares the prospects with stocks Credit Suisse traditionally covers, such as Eutelsat and SES.

Ben Lyons, lead analyst on the report, said Credit Suisse forecasts a total addressable market of $27 billion annually for LEO constellations. He added in the research note, “We expect that actual revenues will be $9.3 billion due to competition from terrestrial broadband in the consumer space and GEO [Geostationary] satellites in the other key verticals. Combining the more than $30 billion currently earmarked for first generation LEO constellations, we estimate the internal rate of return (IRR) to be about 8 percent on the total capital deployed and therefore market-leading LEO operators have an opportunity to make outsized returns.”

[Robotbeat]

They must not be including folks like Lynk and other new capabilities.