Author Topic: Starlink : Markets and Marketing  (Read 346163 times)

Offline vsatman

Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #380 on: 08/25/2021 09:14 pm »
Georgia is negotiating with SpaceX at the invitation of StarLink for service in Georgia.
https://www.facebook.com/gitatechpark/posts/4204205629687305

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #381 on: 08/29/2021 10:48 am »
Navy seems to be testing Starlink via contract # M6786121P0014:
Obligation/Total Contract Value: $35,000
Contracting Office Agency Name: Dept of the Navy
Product/Service Description: IT and Telecom - Network as a Service
Principal NAICS Description: Satellite Telecommunications
Description of Requirement: Ku Band SATCOM Services
« Last Edit: 08/29/2021 10:49 am by su27k »

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #382 on: 08/31/2021 02:52 am »
How the FCC got boxed out of the broadband push

Quote from: axios.com
As the federal government readies to spend tens of billions of dollars on broadband upgrades, the Federal Communications Commission — the agency that has traditionally doled out subsidies for internet connections — is on the sidelines.

Driving the news: The bipartisan infrastructure bill recently approved by the Senate commits $42.5 billion to broadband deployment and related projects, but the money would flow to the states, with oversight from the Commerce Department.

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #383 on: 09/05/2021 03:22 am »
https://twitter.com/stcharlesgov/status/1434305936718540802

Quote
Thanks to @elonmusk and @SpaceX for getting us connected port #hurricaneida Communications is key in our recovery. @SpaceXStarlink

Online niwax

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #384 on: 09/06/2021 09:17 am »
Another interesting data point on bandwidth markets and pricing:

Clouflare Argo is a service where companies use Cloudflares global network instead of the global internet to route traffic between customers and their servers, the goal being more consistent and faster routes without public congestion.

For this privilege, they charge $0.1/GB which puts the revenue generation from a 100MBit/s continuous stream at $40000/yr, or a full 20GBit satellite at $8 million.

Not only are services like this in high demand, developing markets from Africa to South East Asia don't yet have the infrastructure buildout to support them, so satellite based solutions could play an integral role here from the very beginning.
Which booster has the most soot? SpaceX booster launch history! (discussion)

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #385 on: 09/09/2021 11:35 am »
Starlink, Internet from Space and the Precarious Future of Broadband in Rural America

Quote from: Scientific American
Last month, the U.S. Senate voted to pass a monumental infrastructure bill that includes $65 billion to fund the expansion of broadband.

This money alone will not solve the problem. It needs to reach the right people, and to be invested in technology that can reliably deliver fast Internet for years to come. Even though space-based Internet is getting a lot of attention right now, it remains unclear what role the technology will play in solving the nation’s broadband problem. But what is clear is that Starlink has a place at the table.

Jessica Rosenworcel, acting chairwoman of the FCC, says that when it comes to connecting Americans, all options—including Starlink’s extraterrestrial one—should be considered. “We should be open to every technology that can help bring broadband fast,” she says, “and that is definitely one of them.”

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #386 on: 09/09/2021 11:43 am »
Who is Starlink really for?

Quote from: Technology Review
Turner [a tech policy analyst at Free Press, a nonprofit that advocates for open communication] acknowledges that LEO satellites are “going to be a very important innovation in the telecommunication space.” But he still thinks services like Starlink will be a niche product in the US, even in the long term—and sees the general trend continuing toward fiber. Even an emerging technology like 5G relies on very dense networks of antennas that can connect back to fibers as quickly as possible. Cable broadband has improved consistently over time because companies are pushing fiber networks deeper and closer to customers.

Underdeveloped parts of the world might find Starlink to be a boon, since many of these places do not have physical networks like the cable system that the US laid out in the 1970s, ’80s, and ’90s. But beta testing so far is exclusive to the US, Canada, parts of Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and Chile. It’s too early to tell what kind of impact it could have in the developing world, especially if subscription and equipment costs stay high.

Woodward’s experience is the kind the company would like to replicate for all its customers. But Woodward [professor of computer science at the University of Surrey, lives out in the countryside, in rural southwest England] knows he’s fortunate to be able to afford Starlink, and that it’s able to meet his needs. For now, at least. “It will be interesting to see how Starlink holds up when they get 200,000 users,” he says. “Prices will have to come down, but speeds and service will have to remain the same. That’s all to be determined.”

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #387 on: 09/09/2021 11:44 am »
The Government Absolutely Should Not Subsidize Elon Musk’s Satellite-Internet Venture

Quote from: slate.com
The huge infrastructure package that recently passed the Senate allocates billions of dollars for expanding affordable internet access nationwide, raising the question of who and where should get that money. No recipients have been named yet, but low earth orbit satellite networks like Starlink might be one option federal agencies, state, and local governments consider. These networks have recently gotten attention for their potential to connect people in rural areas too hard to reach or capital-intensive for terrestrial service. (They’re also getting attention from angry astronomers who don’t want their views of the night sky ruined.) The technology is promising, enough that one of these networks, SpaceX’s Starlink, won $885.5 million in federal funding in 2020 from the Federal Communications Commission’s Rural Digital Opportunity Fund.

Now, Starlink is petitioning to win even more federal money, asking to be recognized as an affordable service provider that could be reimbursed for providing service to low-income households in the country. But problems with its service suggest the federal government should step back from further bankrolling the company for the sake of expanding access until Starlink demonstrates that it can actually fulfill the promises it makes about the service.

Online Reynold

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #388 on: 09/09/2021 03:29 pm »

Quote from: Technology Review
Turner [a tech policy analyst at Free Press, a nonprofit that advocates for open communication] acknowledges that LEO satellites are “going to be a very important innovation in the telecommunication space.” But he still thinks services like Starlink will be a niche product in the US, even in the long term—and sees the general trend continuing toward fiber. Even an emerging technology like 5G relies on very dense networks of antennas that can connect back to fibers as quickly as possible. Cable broadband has improved consistently over time because companies are pushing fiber networks deeper and closer to customers.


From reading that article, I can tell Turner does not live somewhere remote where he has been begging for years to get cable or fiber laid for decent internet speeds.  Nor does he seem to have any concept of the economics of wiring remote areas when he says SpaceX should not have been allowed to bid and “I think the FCC would have been better to direct its resources toward bringing future-proof broadband to areas where it doesn’t make sense economically to deploy,”. 

There is no way that the FCC's $9B, let alone the less than $1B SpaceX got, would be enough to come close to installing "future-proof" broadband, by which he means fiber, to all the remote communities and households in the U.S.  The $42B in the recent broadband bill won't even approach that (see links below). 

The analysis below (which admittedly is from a Telco, but they are pretty open about their expenses) discusses densities they need to build fiber.  Under 50 homes/mile they won't touch it. 

https://www.otelco.com/fiber-infrastructure/

And below, a Fiber industry letter to the FCC says it would cost $70B to get from the current 50% up to the 90% coverage level for fiber. They aren't even attempting to say what it would cost to get 100%.  From the cost breakdown in the previous link, most of the expense is running the wires, so cable won't be significantly cheaper. 

https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/1091254337624/Fiber%20Deployment%20Cost%20Study%20Letter.pdf

Offline Barley

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #389 on: 09/09/2021 06:47 pm »
TurnerAlan Woodward lives in South West England, and works at the University of Surrey.

The English local authority area with lowest population density is Eden in Cumbria at 23 people/km^2.  (Area 2200km^2).  15 entire US states have lower densities.

The lowest density in South West England is West Devon at 41 people/km^2  (Area 1200 km^2).   27 US states have lower densities.

He almost certainly does not live in Surrey; that would be taking the ****.  The lowest density in Surrey is Mole Valley at 305 people/km^2 (area 2050 km^2).  Only MA, CT and NJ have higher densities.

Different people have very different ideas of what constitutes rural: same planet, different worlds.

(For comparison RI is about 4000 km^2 so local authorities are much smaller than most US states.  I would expect more variation, and thus some areas with lower density with smaller areas)

---

The way I view it* is that Starlink can serve say 10 people/km^2.  They will typically serve the most difficult people to hardwire or serve with terrestrial radio.  In low density areas that will be everyone.  In mid density areas fiber can server the low hanging high density clusters, so Starlink can service the remainder.  In high density areas Starlink will serve the only the most awkward cases, almost everyone will be on fiber.  In high density areas the penetration of Starlink will be negligible at a statistical level but important to the few people who use it.

Globally most people live in high density areas.  Globally, Starlink will be negligible at a statistical level but important to the few people who use it.  And a negligible fraction of 8 billion people is still a lot of people.


* Oversimplified but still useful; it's actually Mbytes per sq/km, and people who can afford to pay, it varies by lattitude, ...

« Last Edit: 09/11/2021 10:01 pm by Barley »

Online envy887

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #390 on: 09/10/2021 01:16 am »
The Government Absolutely Should Not Subsidize Elon Musk’s Satellite-Internet Venture

Quote from: slate.com
But problems with its service suggest the federal government should step back from further bankrolling the company for the sake of expanding access until Starlink demonstrates that it can actually fulfill the promises it makes about the service.

I see this argument a fair amount, but have yet to see anyone making it explain why Starlink should have to do this when we pour tons of money into subsidizing other ISPs without actually requiring them to fulfill the promises they made.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #391 on: 09/10/2021 10:40 pm »
https://twitter.com/nikkei/status/1436263206507491361

Google translate:

Quote
Easy to use calls and the Internet even in depopulated areas. KDDI has partnered with SpaceX, a space operator led by Elon Musk, to launch a communication service using the company's artificial satellites in Japan.#日経イブニングスクープ

https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXZQOUC08A5B0Y1A900C2000000/?n_cid=SNSTW005

Offline Yiosie

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #392 on: 09/10/2021 11:07 pm »
https://twitter.com/nikkei/status/1436263206507491361

Google translate:

Quote
Easy to use calls and the Internet even in depopulated areas. KDDI has partnered with SpaceX, a space operator led by Elon Musk, to launch a communication service using the company's artificial satellites in Japan.#日経イブニングスクープ

https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXZQOUC08A5B0Y1A900C2000000/?n_cid=SNSTW005

English language version of article:

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Telecommunication/SpaceX-and-KDDI-team-up-to-eliminate-wireless-blind-spots-in-Japan

Offline mlindner

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #393 on: 09/10/2021 11:20 pm »
Turner lives in South West England, and works at the University of Surrey.

The English local authority area with lowest population density is Eden in Cumbria at 23 people/km^2.  (Area 2200km^2).  15 entire US states have lower densities.

The lowest density in South West England is West Devon at 41 people/km^2  (Area 1200 km^2).   27 US states have lower densities.

He almost certainly does not live in Surrey; that would be taking the ****.  The lowest density in Surrey is Mole Valley at 305 people/km^2 (area 2050 km^2).  Only MA, CT and NJ have higher densities.

Different people have very different ideas of what constitutes rural: same planet, different worlds.

(For comparison RI is about 4000 km^2 so local authorities are much smaller than most US states.  I would expect more variation, and thus some areas with lower density with smaller areas)

---

The way I view it* is that Starlink can serve say 10 people/km^2.  They will typically serve the most difficult people to hardwire or serve with terrestrial radio.  In low density areas that will be everyone.  In mid density areas fiber can server the low hanging high density clusters, so Starlink can service the remainder.  In high density areas Starlink will serve the only the most awkward cases, almost everyone will be on fiber.  In high density areas the penetration of Starlink will be negligible at a statistical level but important to the few people who use it.

Globally most people live in high density areas.  Globally, Starlink will be negligible at a statistical level but important to the few people who use it.  And a negligible fraction of 8 billion people is still a lot of people.


* Oversimplified but still useful; it's actually Mbytes per sq/km, and people who can afford to pay, it varies by lattitude, ...

There's like several different Derek Turners that work in journalism (including a far-right nationalist who used to be part of the national front in the UK). This Derek Turner seems to be in the US, not England. https://www.freepress.net/about/staff/s-derek-turner
« Last Edit: 09/10/2021 11:21 pm by mlindner »
LEO is the ocean, not an island (let alone a continent). We create cruise liners to ride the oceans, not artificial islands in the middle of them. We need a physical place, which has physical resources, to make our future out there.

Offline mlindner

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #394 on: 09/10/2021 11:55 pm »
https://twitter.com/nikkei/status/1436263206507491361

Google translate:

Quote
Easy to use calls and the Internet even in depopulated areas. KDDI has partnered with SpaceX, a space operator led by Elon Musk, to launch a communication service using the company's artificial satellites in Japan.#日経イブニングスクープ

https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXZQOUC08A5B0Y1A900C2000000/?n_cid=SNSTW005

English language version of article:

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Telecommunication/SpaceX-and-KDDI-team-up-to-eliminate-wireless-blind-spots-in-Japan

Some key notes:

Quote
SpaceX has launched hundreds of Starlink telecommunications satellites with the goal of fully starting services in Japan by the end of the year. KDDI and SpaceX will begin a network proving test in Japan this month, and coverage is expected to be commercially available next year.

KDDI will add satellite communication antennas to base stations and install a new SpaceX transmission station at the Yamaguchi Satellite Communication Center.

Such satellite networks services need approval from Japan's communications ministry before operations can begin. The ministry amended rules in August that opened the doors to SpaceX launching internet services in Japan. Both SpaceX and KDDI plan to obtain licenses by the end of the year.

Musk mentioned "two quite significant partnerships with major country telcos" in June during the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona. Although Musk did not disclose the companies' names, it turns out that KDDI is one of them.

So this was one of the large telecoms that SpaceX was partnering with.
« Last Edit: 09/10/2021 11:56 pm by mlindner »
LEO is the ocean, not an island (let alone a continent). We create cruise liners to ride the oceans, not artificial islands in the middle of them. We need a physical place, which has physical resources, to make our future out there.

Offline Barley

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #395 on: 09/11/2021 10:03 pm »
Turner lives in South West England, and works at the University of Surrey.

...

There's like several different Derek Turners that work in journalism (including a far-right nationalist who used to be part of the national front in the UK). This Derek Turner seems to be in the US, not England. https://www.freepress.net/about/staff/s-derek-turner
Oops.  Got the name wrong, The person using Starlink in England in the article was Alan Woodward.

Offline Asteroza

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #396 on: 09/12/2021 11:08 pm »
https://twitter.com/nikkei/status/1436263206507491361

Google translate:

Quote
Easy to use calls and the Internet even in depopulated areas. KDDI has partnered with SpaceX, a space operator led by Elon Musk, to launch a communication service using the company's artificial satellites in Japan.#日経イブニングスクープ

https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXZQOUC08A5B0Y1A900C2000000/?n_cid=SNSTW005

English language version of article:

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Telecommunication/SpaceX-and-KDDI-team-up-to-eliminate-wireless-blind-spots-in-Japan

Some key notes:

Quote
SpaceX has launched hundreds of Starlink telecommunications satellites with the goal of fully starting services in Japan by the end of the year. KDDI and SpaceX will begin a network proving test in Japan this month, and coverage is expected to be commercially available next year.

KDDI will add satellite communication antennas to base stations and install a new SpaceX transmission station at the Yamaguchi Satellite Communication Center.

Such satellite networks services need approval from Japan's communications ministry before operations can begin. The ministry amended rules in August that opened the doors to SpaceX launching internet services in Japan. Both SpaceX and KDDI plan to obtain licenses by the end of the year.

Musk mentioned "two quite significant partnerships with major country telcos" in June during the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona. Although Musk did not disclose the companies' names, it turns out that KDDI is one of them.

So this was one of the large telecoms that SpaceX was partnering with.

Targeting island archipelago cellular carriers for basestation backhaul would allow an upstart cellular provider to utterly brutalize an incumbent, especially if they have an O-RAN software network core. Think Indonesia, Malaysia, or the Philippines where an upstart could run roughshod over an incumbent.

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #397 on: 09/14/2021 01:01 pm »
It’s been awhile since I’ve read about the number of potential customers for Starlink, in the US and globally.

Just swagging some numbers myself it seems that 5-10 million in the US and 20 million plus globally could make Starlink worth more than $200 billion.

AT&T is $197B and Verizon is $226B

It will take years still to get there but it’s going to be gigantic and should be capable of funding a Mars colony.

Starship, Vulcan and Ariane 6 have all reached orbit.  New Glenn, well we are waiting!

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #398 on: 09/16/2021 02:46 am »
Viasat: SpaceX Starlink threat to LEO sustainability is casus belli for us & we’re asking spacefaring nations to deny market access

Quote from: spaceintelreport.com
PARIS — Satellite broadband hardware and service provider Viasat Inc. is trying to persuade large nations outside the United States to deny landing rights to SpaceX’s Starlink as a way to preserve the long-term usability of low Earth orbit for themselves and others.

Exasperated that U.S. regulators, and even Viasat’s industry peers, have chosen not to sound the alarm about the dangers of placing tens of thousands of satellites into low Earth orbit, Viasat hopes to have more success at the market end.

Online M.E.T.

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Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #399 on: 09/16/2021 05:39 am »
Viasat: SpaceX Starlink threat to LEO sustainability is casus belli for us & we’re asking spacefaring nations to deny market access

Quote from: spaceintelreport.com
PARIS — Satellite broadband hardware and service provider Viasat Inc. is trying to persuade large nations outside the United States to deny landing rights to SpaceX’s Starlink as a way to preserve the long-term usability of low Earth orbit for themselves and others.

Exasperated that U.S. regulators, and even Viasat’s industry peers, have chosen not to sound the alarm about the dangers of placing tens of thousands of satellites into low Earth orbit, Viasat hopes to have more success at the market end.

Are these guys for real?

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