Author Topic: Starlink : Markets and Marketing  (Read 346186 times)

Online DanClemmensen

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6044
  • Earth (currently)
  • Liked: 4765
  • Likes Given: 2020
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1040 on: 01/01/2024 01:53 am »
Great to see this company supplied at least one ship that has been to Antarctica!
I suppose the poor latency around Africa, may be lack of base stations, and use of inter satellite links to a distant base station.
Brilliant but not unexpected that Starlink is such a success, since it is such an improvement on the previous services.
Hard to say, unless you know how the latency is measured. The map only shows the user end. Where is the server? In many cases ISL route would have lower latency, not higher latency. Speed of light in vacuum is 300,000 km/s and speed of light in fiber is only 200,000 km/s.  Undersea cables are not straight, while ISL links are straight. If Starlink uses a gateway in e.g. South Africa and they are pinging a server in Europe, ISL would have lower latency.

Offline RedLineTrain

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2599
  • Liked: 2507
  • Likes Given: 10527
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1041 on: 01/02/2024 03:24 pm »
Starlink obtained an operator's license in Papua New Guinea.  Unclear whether landing rights also were obtained.  Starlink's availability map shows that it will enter the PNG market in Q3.

It appears that each terminal will be licensed.  Unknown how and if gray market terminals will be regularized.  The PNG authorities are talking tough.

Quote
NICTA Chairman Noel Mobia explained: “Starlink will bring in the terminals under their operator licence, and every purchased terminal will have its own licence. NICTA will manage and monitor this process, ensuring transparency and accountability."

https://developingtelecoms.com/telecom-technology/satellite-communications-networks/15996-starlink-bags-licence-in-papua-new-guinea.html

And here's a more general article with lots of positive talk.

Quote
"It took us some time to do that because this interesting new technology has just come into realization after maybe 9-10 years of development," he explained.

"The positive side is we can connect all those remote schools now, and the cost to this satellite service is very low compared to fixed orbit satellites, which is a plus for our government."
Quote
"We will be reviewing the arrangement of operation with StarLink in the next five years on the pluses and the minuses to ensure our National Security is intact," he added.

https://news.pngfacts.com/2024/01/png-technology-minister-masiu-announces.html
« Last Edit: 01/02/2024 03:41 pm by RedLineTrain »

Offline octavo

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 247
  • Liked: 186
  • Likes Given: 740
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1042 on: 01/03/2024 06:09 am »
Hard to say, unless you know how the latency is measured. The map only shows the user end. Where is the server? In many cases ISL route would have lower latency, not higher latency. Speed of light in vacuum is 300,000 km/s and speed of light in fiber is only 200,000 km/s.  Undersea cables are not straight, while ISL links are straight. If Starlink uses a gateway in e.g. South Africa and they are pinging a server in Europe, ISL would have lower latency.

There are no Starlink base stations or gateways in South Africa. The only one I know about in Africa is in Rwanda, although more should be coming soon to Botswana, Namibia and Mozambique. The South African government refuses to enter talks with Starlink as it is not majority black owned. For Starlink to ever reach South Africa, a local, black-owned company would have to apply for and hold the Starlink operating license from the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa (ICASA).

Offline OceanCat

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 151
  • Liked: 293
  • Likes Given: 259
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1043 on: 01/03/2024 11:09 am »
Great to see this company supplied at least one ship that has been to Antarctica!
I suppose the poor latency around Africa, may be lack of base stations, and use of inter satellite links to a distant base station.
Brilliant but not unexpected that Starlink is such a success, since it is such an improvement on the previous services.
Hard to say, unless you know how the latency is measured. The map only shows the user end. Where is the server? In many cases ISL route would have lower latency, not higher latency. Speed of light in vacuum is 300,000 km/s and speed of light in fiber is only 200,000 km/s.  Undersea cables are not straight, while ISL links are straight. If Starlink uses a gateway in e.g. South Africa and they are pinging a server in Europe, ISL would have lower latency.

The map largely matches the Starlink map https://www.starlink.com/map?view=latency and what users in Africa report on reddit. Starlink measures latency to the user POP. There is only one Starlink POP in Africa in Lagos, Nigeria.

Offline Zed_Noir

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5490
  • Canada
  • Liked: 1811
  • Likes Given: 1302
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1044 on: 01/04/2024 09:21 pm »
Hard to say, unless you know how the latency is measured. The map only shows the user end. Where is the server? In many cases ISL route would have lower latency, not higher latency. Speed of light in vacuum is 300,000 km/s and speed of light in fiber is only 200,000 km/s.  Undersea cables are not straight, while ISL links are straight. If Starlink uses a gateway in e.g. South Africa and they are pinging a server in Europe, ISL would have lower latency.

There are no Starlink base stations or gateways in South Africa. The only one I know about in Africa is in Rwanda, although more should be coming soon to Botswana, Namibia and Mozambique. The South African government refuses to enter talks with Starlink as it is not majority black owned. For Starlink to ever reach South Africa, a local, black-owned company would have to apply for and hold the Starlink operating license from the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa (ICASA).
Will be interesting to see if the South Africa government modified it's regulatory policy after all the other nearby countries has Starlink connectivity as well as all the commercial shipping and air traffic passing through.

Offline OceanCat

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 151
  • Liked: 293
  • Likes Given: 259
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1045 on: 01/05/2024 05:49 am »
Numbers from the recent Starlink progress report (attached below; originally published on https://stories.starlink.com/)

* Starlink is providing service to 2.3M+ customers in over 70 countries
* 300 cruise ships are now set to use Starlink
* Roam: There are more than 300,000 customers currently using Starlink while traveling
* Starlink is providing connectivity to more than 60,000 fixed site businesses
* More than 10,000 vessels are now connected with Starlink
* Currently installed and being used on more than 80 aircraft with over 400 additional planes on contract, including for 6 commercial airlines around the world
* Community Gateways provide another way for the Starlink constellation to deliver fiber-like connectivity speeds directly to remote communities, with local service providers using last-mile Wi-Fi, LTE, or fiber to bring the internet from the Community Gateway to homes and businesses. [...] Community Gateways supplement existing Starlink service in a remote area by providing Gigabit connectivity (up to 10 Gbps today) via our high-bandwidth gateway antennas. Our first Community Gateway is currently serving residents and businesses on the remote island community of Unalaska, Alaska.
* We have the capacity to build up to 55 satellites per week, and we have capacity to launch 200+ satellites per month.
* With the second generation of satellites, our teams levered new innovations in propulsion technology to switch to argon gas as the propellant instead. This move enabled each satellite’s engine to produce 2.4x the thrust of a first generation engine with a 1.5x increase in specific impulse
* With more than 9,000 space lasers across the constellation, Starlink satellites are able to connect over 3,000 kilometers apart, beyond the view of ground stations, and maintain pointing accuracy to enable data transfer up to 100 Gbps on each link.
* In the last six months, each Starlink satellite performed an average of 10 avoidance maneuvers. While
that might sound like a lot, Starlink uses a higher threshold of safety than the rest of the industry. If each Starlink satellite only maneuvered based on industry standard, they would, on average, perform only one avoidance maneuver every six months.
« Last Edit: 01/05/2024 05:55 am by OceanCat »

Offline Jimmy_C

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 222
  • Liked: 201
  • Likes Given: 6729
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1046 on: 01/05/2024 06:15 pm »
* In the last six months, each Starlink satellite performed an average of 10 avoidance maneuvers. While
that might sound like a lot, Starlink uses a higher threshold of safety than the rest of the industry. If each Starlink satellite only maneuvered based on industry standard, they would, on average, perform only one avoidance maneuver every six months.

I'm just curious. Are avoidance maneuvers manual or automated? Is there a server automatically calculating and scheduling avoidance maneuvers or do people notice a potential collision, calculate the necessary maneuvers on a computer, and upload the maneuver programming deliberately?
« Last Edit: 01/05/2024 06:16 pm by Jimmy_C »

Offline RedLineTrain

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2599
  • Liked: 2507
  • Likes Given: 10527
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1047 on: 01/12/2024 03:05 pm »
South Sudan's National Communication Authority General Director talking tough against gray market Starlink use in the country.  SpaceX hasn't put a date on market entry, suggesting that the country is well down the list of priority jurisdictions.

Quote
I want to warn users of Starlink equipment to stop their operations as it is not permitted to use in South Sudan. This public circular issued by NCA @NcaSsd is a warning to operators of the consequences of harsh penalties and punishment  by the court of law of unlicensed and illegal activities.

https://twitter.com/AdokGai/status/1745825826212311103
« Last Edit: 01/12/2024 03:09 pm by RedLineTrain »

Online M.E.T.

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2381
  • Liked: 3010
  • Likes Given: 522
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1048 on: 01/15/2024 01:40 am »
British Telecom in talks with Starlink. Some notes from the article:

BT is interested in partering with Starlink to plug coverage gaps in its mobile network.

Starlink now has 42000 British users, up from 13000 in 2022.

BT was originally relying on a partnership with Oneweb, but according to the article confidence in that partnership is beginning to sour after Oneweb’s recent takeover by France’s Eutelsat.

Both BT and rival network O2 have carried out trials with Starlink in remote parts of Wales.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/01/14/bt-elon-musk-starlink-broadband-offer/
« Last Edit: 01/15/2024 01:42 am by M.E.T. »

Online Reynold

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 176
  • Liked: 279
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1049 on: 01/15/2024 08:07 pm »
Wall Street Journal article (paywalled of course) about John Deere choosing Starlink to put on its tractors and combines for things like driverless plowing and automated herbicide treatments of weeds but not crops.

https://www.wsj.com/business/telecom/john-deere-meet-elon-musk-spacex-satellites-to-link-farm-giants-equipment-e0936668?mod=hp_lead_pos11

It mentions that Deere tested satellites for about 8 months before settling on Starlink because of lower latency (handy for automated driving), better connectivity, and the fact that they can expand their satellite fleet more easily.  It also says Starlink beat out Intelsat.  Places like Brazil in particular where most farms don't have cell service are target markets, but U.S. as well. 

It will be a ruggedized dish for dusty conditions, though I would think not much modification would be needed from Maritime dishes, which get salt spray. 

Online catdlr

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12507
  • Enthusiast since the Redstones
  • Marina del Rey, California, USA
  • Liked: 10232
  • Likes Given: 8515
« Last Edit: 01/17/2024 12:21 am by catdlr »
It's Tony De La Rosa, ...I don't create this stuff, I just report it.

Offline Sam Ho

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 822
  • Liked: 587
  • Likes Given: 71
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1051 on: 01/17/2024 03:04 am »
Wall Street Journal article (paywalled of course) about John Deere choosing Starlink to put on its tractors and combines for things like driverless plowing and automated herbicide treatments of weeds but not crops.

https://www.wsj.com/business/telecom/john-deere-meet-elon-musk-spacex-satellites-to-link-farm-giants-equipment-e0936668?mod=hp_lead_pos11

It mentions that Deere tested satellites for about 8 months before settling on Starlink because of lower latency (handy for automated driving), better connectivity, and the fact that they can expand their satellite fleet more easily.  It also says Starlink beat out Intelsat.  Places like Brazil in particular where most farms don't have cell service are target markets, but U.S. as well. 

It will be a ruggedized dish for dusty conditions, though I would think not much modification would be needed from Maritime dishes, which get salt spray.

Non-paywalled version of this article courtesy of Microsoft:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/john-deere-meet-elon-musk-spacex-satellites-to-link-farm-giant-s-equipment/ar-AA1n0RwZ

Offline RedLineTrain

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2599
  • Liked: 2507
  • Likes Given: 10527
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1052 on: 01/19/2024 04:01 pm »
Wall Street Journal article (paywalled of course) about John Deere choosing Starlink to put on its tractors and combines for things like driverless plowing and automated herbicide treatments of weeds but not crops.

https://www.wsj.com/business/telecom/john-deere-meet-elon-musk-spacex-satellites-to-link-farm-giants-equipment-e0936668?mod=hp_lead_pos11

It mentions that Deere tested satellites for about 8 months before settling on Starlink because of lower latency (handy for automated driving), better connectivity, and the fact that they can expand their satellite fleet more easily.  It also says Starlink beat out Intelsat.  Places like Brazil in particular where most farms don't have cell service are target markets, but U.S. as well. 

It will be a ruggedized dish for dusty conditions, though I would think not much modification would be needed from Maritime dishes, which get salt spray.

Non-paywalled version of this article courtesy of Microsoft:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/john-deere-meet-elon-musk-spacex-satellites-to-link-farm-giant-s-equipment/ar-AA1n0RwZ

Peter B. de Selding indicates the quite substantial addressable market for this deal.

Quote
@JohnDeere 's choice of @SpaceX @Starlink for ~1 million vehicles after 14-month evaluation is an earthquake for Starlink competitors.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/1748314333031915874

Offline RedLineTrain

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2599
  • Liked: 2507
  • Likes Given: 10527
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1053 on: 01/19/2024 04:05 pm »
BREAKING: SpaceX is now offering a Starlink service that can deliver 10 gigabit internet speeds, the fastest satellite internet speeds in the world.

Starting at $75,000/Gbps/month with a one-time upfront cost of $1.25M:
• Download speed: 10Gbps
• Upload: 10Gbps
• Latency: Under 99 ms

For that $1.25M one time fee, SpaceX won’t just send a dish; it’ll help build an entire facility dedicated to receiving up to 10Gbps in broadband speeds from the company’s fleet of orbiting satellites.

How does this pricing compare to alternatives, assuming that there are any?

Online DanClemmensen

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6044
  • Earth (currently)
  • Liked: 4765
  • Likes Given: 2020
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1054 on: 01/19/2024 05:03 pm »
BREAKING: SpaceX is now offering a Starlink service that can deliver 10 gigabit internet speeds, the fastest satellite internet speeds in the world.

Starting at $75,000/Gbps/month with a one-time upfront cost of $1.25M:
• Download speed: 10Gbps
• Upload: 10Gbps
• Latency: Under 99 ms

For that $1.25M one time fee, SpaceX won’t just send a dish; it’ll help build an entire facility dedicated to receiving up to 10Gbps in broadband speeds from the company’s fleet of orbiting satellites.
I think it's clear that this is basically a private Starlink gateway. The "facility" would be identical to one of SpaceX' gateways. The Antennas would operate on the gateway side of the satellites instead of the user side, and the SpaceX team that installs the facility is the same team that installs SpaceX gateways.
« Last Edit: 01/19/2024 05:57 pm by DanClemmensen »

Online abaddon

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3176
  • Liked: 4167
  • Likes Given: 5624
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1055 on: 01/19/2024 08:51 pm »
BREAKING: SpaceX is now offering a Starlink service that can deliver 10 gigabit internet speeds, the fastest satellite internet speeds in the world.

Starting at $75,000/Gbps/month with a one-time upfront cost of $1.25M:
• Download speed: 10Gbps
• Upload: 10Gbps
• Latency: Under 99 ms

For that $1.25M one time fee, SpaceX won’t just send a dish; it’ll help build an entire facility dedicated to receiving up to 10Gbps in broadband speeds from the company’s fleet of orbiting satellites.
I think it's clear that this is basically a private Starlink gateway. The "facility" would be identical to one of SpaceX' gateways. The Antennas would operate on the gateway side of the satellites instead of the user side, and the SpaceX team that installs the facility is the same team that installs SpaceX gateways.
...which gives us some interesting minimum performance numbers for SpaceX gateways...

Offline RedLineTrain

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2599
  • Liked: 2507
  • Likes Given: 10527
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1056 on: 01/24/2024 04:19 pm »
According to its Deputy Minister of Digital Development, Innovation and Aerospace Industry, Kazakhstan plans to allow Starlink service.  But they are going to require "information security" measures.  Will be interesting to see the details on that, as it will with some other countries like India.

Quote
"The search for technical solutions to ensure information security within the framework of Starlink internet usage is underway. We are now considering several options. After testing appropriate technical solutions to ensure information security, we will take measures to make this service available," Olzhabekov noted.
Quote
"These processes will take at least 4-5 months. Information security is a very crucial issue," he added.

https://en.trend.az/casia/kazakhstan/3852697.html

Offline RedLineTrain

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2599
  • Liked: 2507
  • Likes Given: 10527
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1057 on: 01/24/2024 05:12 pm »
Crossposted from the Starlink at War thread, Sandra Erwin at Space News has a good article describing the DoD uptake of new commercial satellite services (mainly Starlink) by the DOD.  Worth a read in its entirety.

Quote
Under the PLEO indefinite-delivery/ indefinite-quantity (IDIQ) contract, space companies will be able to bid on about $900 million worth of military task orders over the next five years. “Once we make a determination of a customer’s needs, we try to help connect them to capability as soon as possible,” said Hopper.
Quote
Starlink service is now highly sought after by many parts of the DoD and U.S. armed forces. Of the $70 million task order awarded to SpaceX, “we’ve obligated approximately $25 million in funds sourced from about 50 different customers” across the DoD, Hopper added. “We’re seeing a diverse demand for that vehicle, and we’ve been modifying that particular task order seemingly every couple of weeks.”
Quote
Hopper noted that the $70 million task order is not a complete reflection of DoD’s entire use of Starlink, as some organizations procure services under other contracts not managed by CSCO.
Quote
She said the current contract ceiling of $900 million could be raised if needed. “We are working with DISA on perhaps adjusting that due to demand.”

https://spacenews.com/dods-satcom-evolution/

Offline RedLineTrain

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2599
  • Liked: 2507
  • Likes Given: 10527
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1058 on: 02/20/2024 03:38 pm »
Reuters is reporting that SpaceX has had limited landing rights in Indonesia since June 2022.  The company is permitted to provide backhaul services to state-owned Telkom through Telkomsat.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/space/how-chinese-rocket-failure-boosted-elon-musks-spacex-indonesia-2024-02-20/

Offline RedLineTrain

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2599
  • Liked: 2507
  • Likes Given: 10527
Re: Starlink : Markets and Marketing
« Reply #1059 on: 02/25/2024 09:21 pm »
Starlink is receiving free publicity on state TV in Zimbabwe after a Chinese mining company is fined $700 for using the service.

Some of the marketing methods Starlink is using are wild.  My hat's off to them.

https://twitter.com/Potraz_zw/status/1761412219701473674
« Last Edit: 02/25/2024 09:27 pm by RedLineTrain »

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0