SpaceX Mars/Moon rover

[Asteroza]

Needs a bigger cab for EVA suits.

Counterpressure suits like the MIT design are effectively skintight, so a conventional cab running unpressurized works. Whether you NEED a conventional cab if running unpressurized is up for debate though (dust storms, etc). But unpressurized would also allow running without the cab top, you could run around like an open jeep though. At least you won't have to worry about the windows...

[Asteroza]

I suspect they never tried that test on the actual truck, just drop tests and throws at a separate truck door. The stainless steel body would hold the glass rigidly in place not letting any energy dissipate with movement.
 
The same stainless steel alloy used for Starship.

Apparantly they did test it before though.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1198090787520598016?

Franz throws steel ball at Cybertruck window right before launch. Guess we have some improvements to make before production haha.

Apparently there are allegations the other video may not be equivalent, as the door rebounds somewhat, suggesting it wasn't closed on impact.

[QuantumG]

I'm honestly imagining a small subculture of the 2020s where people live on Earth like they're living on Mars and many of the techniques they experiment with make their way to Mars and (hopefully) are adopted by mainstream society.

I've always wanted my house to be airtight, but what's the value to most people? This became very apparently to me lately when the sky was filled by dust and smoke by fires raging 75 km away. Going outside was an ordeal to my sinuses and I didn't want the same experience sitting at my desk or trying to sleep. (Boo hoo, I know.)

Most people these days drive around with their windows up. In my childhood that was obscene, but now we have aircon. Most trucks (and some cars) can drive through slow moving rivers without issue. That was a specialized thing that no-one needed unless they were going out into the wilds, now it is standard.

Then of course, there's solar panels. We've almost completely adapted to the idea of a decentralized grid - even though few of us can live without the grid right now.

While it seems silly to put an airlock on your house, or wear a space suit to the shops, there's a lot of use that an Earth worm can get from the day-to-day requirements of living on Mars.

[Twark_Main]

...
I've always wanted my house to be airtight, but what's the value to most people? This became very apparently to me lately when the sky was filled by dust and smoke by fires raging 75 km away. Going outside was an ordeal to my sinuses and I didn't want the same experience sitting at my desk or trying to sleep. (Boo hoo, I know.)

...

While it seems silly to put an airlock on your house, or wear a space suit to the shops, there's a lot of use that an Earth worm can get from the day-to-day requirements of living on Mars.

FYI it is possible to have a dust-free and smoke-free house without the considerable expense of making it airtight. Buckminster Fuller used this technique in his Dymaxiom House: air was blown in through a high efficiency filter, creating positive pressure in the house. Any leaks will flow out rather than in, so dusty/smoky outside air can't enter the structure. This is how "clean rooms" work. An inexpensive system can easily be rigged up at home (hint: box fan, filter, cardboard, blue tape, and remember to seal everywhere ).

Ideally you'd have a Tesla Powerwall and solar providing reliable power to run the fan. Or at least a UPS, for protection during the blackouts.

[Eka]

Since EM earlier said "dual motor" I retract my hub motor scheme for a later update.... Although 4 (hub) motors is obviously the correct engineering solution, even if it is using long extensible prop shafts!

Hub motors increases unsprung weight, and that is seriously bad for performance, tires, and rims.

[QuantumG]

Oh yeah, I forgot the biggest one of all:

Convincing people that living underground is fine.

I remember the first time I learnt anyone had a problem with this... it was this weird moment of wait- people- actually- care? Is that why kids are afraid to go into the basement? The fear of descending into the Earth? Is that why Jules Verne was considered blasphemy? Wow!

To a city dweller like me, who grew up in a country town, I'd be as happy to live underground as I would on the 50th floor... Location, Location, Location, I guess. But that's just me. I think there's lots of people who couldn't handle it.

I think this is one of things you just have to leave to economics. Make underground housing and transport cheaper than aboveground and you'll soon have a population willing to pay for it.

TLDR; Boring.

[edzieba]

...
I've always wanted my house to be airtight, but what's the value to most people? This became very apparently to me lately when the sky was filled by dust and smoke by fires raging 75 km away. Going outside was an ordeal to my sinuses and I didn't want the same experience sitting at my desk or trying to sleep. (Boo hoo, I know.)

...

While it seems silly to put an airlock on your house, or wear a space suit to the shops, there's a lot of use that an Earth worm can get from the day-to-day requirements of living on Mars.

FYI it is possible to have a dust-free and smoke-free house without the considerable expense of making it airtight. Buckminster Fuller used this technique in his Dymaxiom House: air was blown in through a high efficiency filter, creating positive pressure in the house. Any leaks will flow out rather than in, so dusty/smoky outside air can't enter the structure. This is how "clean rooms" work. An inexpensive system can easily be rigged up at home (hint: box fan, filter, cardboard, blue tape, and remember to seal everywhere ).

Ideally you'd have a Tesla Powerwall and solar providing reliable power to run the fan. Or at least a UPS, for protection during the blackouts.

Positive pressure and extremely low leakage are already requirements for high efficiency (AKA 'eco friendly') house building, and testing maximum leakage per unit external surface area is part of the building regulations for many countries (and some optional certifications, e.g. 1m^3 per m^2 per hour for PassivHaus).

[Lar]

The Cybertruck is already the ugliest pick-up truck on Earth, and will no doubt be the ugliest truck on any celestial body unfortunate to have its surface desecrated by it.

Well, that's just like, your opinion, man. [1]

I would say this, it's also quite likely to be the most beautiful truck on many celestial bodies for quite a while. I expect SpaceX to exceed NASA at expansion rate to other useful places.


1 - I am an ordained minister in the Church of the Latter Day Dude so I can say that.

[raketa]

The Cybertruck is already the ugliest pick-up truck on Earth, and will no doubt be the ugliest truck on any celestial body unfortunate to have its surface desecrated by it.

Well, that's just like, your opinion, man. [1]

I would say this, it's also quite likely to be the most beautiful truck on many celestial bodies for quite a while. I expect SpaceX to exceed NASA at expansion rate to other useful places.


1 - I am an ordained minister in the Church of the Latter Day Dude so I can say that.

All trucks.  are ugly. This one at least is crazy interesting. The is shape as close to airplane wing. Will be surprisingly aerodynamic. I am considering buy just to stand up in crowd and also knowing that very similar vehicles are roaming surface of Mars.


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[geza]

When somebody objected the name "Starship" on Twitter, saying that it would not fly interstellar, Elon's response was that a later iteration would. So the Mars iteration of Cypertruck could be as different from the current one, than the intersteller SpaceX Starship will differ from the Martian one :-).

Seriously, it is obvious that SpeceX will rely on Tesla' technology, as much as possible. We do not know, but I feel quite likely that these applications are in their mind from the beginning in any Tesla development. The Tesla design studio is located at SpaceX campus in Hawthorne, after all. Why? We have learnt about the Tesla battery in Mk1 and that the control surfaces of Starship will be moved by Tesla electric motors. This mean that they are alerady studying the thermal problem related to the off-Earth application. 

I don't think, that the characteristic shape of Cybertruck will survive for Mars. If you want a pressurized rover, then you want a higher pressurized volume, where you can doff the pressure suit conveniently, where you can eat, sleep and go to toilett. You want an airlock, or suit ports, or both. For shorter trips, after which you go back to the hab to eat, an unpressurized ATV is much better. (There is no whether there.) So, Martian conversion of the newly unveiled Tesla ATV is also an interesting possibility.

The point is that transiting between pressurized and unpressurized spaces is much more complicated and time consuming, than sitting into a car here on Earth. So, you probably dont want a pressurized cabin for a van, or a crane. You need a pressurized rover only for multi-day traverses. A van can work autonomously, or you can control it from your hab (pressurized rover), or sit on an unpressurized seat on it.

I expect a Tesla-developed universal Martian undercarry, which can be completed to different purposes by a hab, or an equipment.

[Lar]

I expect a Tesla-developed universal Martian undercarry, which can be completed to different purposes by a hab, or an equipment.

Lamontagne has done a fair bit of that envisioning already in various threads. I'm inclined to agree that the Semi will see this but the Cybertruck is unibody. So a skate is harder to do ....

[Eka]

I expect a Tesla-developed universal Martian undercarry, which can be completed to different purposes by a hab, or an equipment.

Lamontagne has done a fair bit of that envisioning already in various threads. I'm inclined to agree that the Semi will see this but the Cybertruck is unibody. So a skate is harder to do ....

Yeah, the unibody makes a skateboard impossible. I prefer using a variant of the semi. Motive units mount to the bottom of the rails. Batteries hang off the rail sides or hang between the rails. Cabs, habitat bodies, flat beds, telehandlers, etc mount to the top of the rails. I envision the rails having sets of holes for mounting motive units and batteries. Motive units mount to two to three sets while batteries mount to one set. This way it can easily be reconfigured for new uses, heavier loads, or greater redundancy.

[rakaydos]

Cybertruck, but with 4 suitports instead of doors (including a footrail to keep the suits from dragging their feet as you drive)

[edzieba]

How modifiable Cybertruck is depends on the as yet unseen internal assembly of internal components onto the inside of the shell (the main structural element). If those components are sufficiently modular - e.g. if they are elements connected with power cables & a shared bus rather than all point-to-point links and rigid mechanical connections - then 'refolding' a larger shell and attaching the same components to then inside could be a viable method of making a Marstruck with a larger internal volume and greater surface area (for e.g. suitports or airlocks).

[docmordrid]

How modifiable Cybertruck is depends on the as yet unseen internal assembly of internal components onto the inside of the shell (the main structural element). If those components are sufficiently modular - e.g. if they are elements connected with power cables & a shared bus rather than all point-to-point links and rigid mechanical connections - then 'refolding' a larger shell and attaching the same components to then inside could be a viable method of making a Marstruck with a larger internal volume and greater surface area (for e.g. suitports or airlocks).

Tesla is much like SpaceX in terms of iteration. In Model S the harness was 3 km, in Model 3 that's down to 1.5 km, and in the upcoming Model Y Crossover SUV its down to just 100m. This is accomplished by using a patented  "hard" perimeter bus installable by robots.

I cannot imagine them backsliding to a "birds nest" harness for Cybertruck.

Patentscope...

“Traditional car wiring for vehicles are piecemeal solutions. Typically, there are different wiring harnesses that connect each different electrical component to a central battery or power source. Each component receives power, but requires multiple wiring harnesses for communication and signals. The total length of the wire may be many miles within a single vehicle. These wiring harnesses typically consist of multiple round conductors that are not rigid. Round conductors are not optimal for transmitting current and the lack of rigidity of traditional wiring harnesses requires assembly into the vehicle using human hands, which can be a slow process. Further, connecting each component to the central battery is not optimized on an automobile level.”

[DistantTemple]

Once they have worked out/decided, how each item will be addressed, and how to add the decoder module to it then the whole system is portable to any similar variant, and with only a little work to any other (new) vehicle.
In fact it makes it extremely easy to design wiring for a new vehicle.
It should be vastly easier to send more data both ways over the "instruction bus", so as well as switching items like lights, there could easily be multiple sensors, for fault finding, bulb health... temperature... and the ability to add many more  on future models.

As well as saving wiring, it also massively simplifies wiring, so there is unlikely to be a faulty wire hidden in the harness where it enters the rear hatch, or slides under a carpet. There will likely be less chance of a crucial multi-way connector under the carpet just where rain gets in from a poor door seal!!!

It will be much more robust in the long run without the complication and weak points, and more reparable. In an older car a damaged traditional loom can be uneconomic to fix.

[Ludus]

Oh yeah, I forgot the biggest one of all:

Convincing people that living underground is fine.

I remember the first time I learnt anyone had a problem with this... it was this weird moment of wait- people- actually- care? Is that why kids are afraid to go into the basement? The fear of descending into the Earth? Is that why Jules Verne was considered blasphemy? Wow!

To a city dweller like me, who grew up in a country town, I'd be as happy to live underground as I would on the 50th floor... Location, Location, Location, I guess. But that's just me. I think there's lots of people who couldn't handle it.

I think this is one of things you just have to leave to economics. Make underground housing and transport cheaper than aboveground and you'll soon have a population willing to pay for it.

TLDR; Boring.

Mars will be the greatest reality TV/Social Media franchise on Earth. It makes complete sense that a Mars emulation culture will grow up around that.

[Lar]

Let's not dig too deep into Tesla wiring harness tech unless you make a clear tie in to the topic.

[QuantumG]

Mars will be the greatest reality TV/Social Media franchise on Earth. It makes complete sense that a Mars emulation culture will grow up around that.

Self-training for migration.

[docmordrid]

Thereby instigating the Morlock Culture...😉