SpaceX Mars/Moon rover

[Eka]

*snip*
My favorite real world machine for real useful exploration has always been the Timberjack.  But there aren't very many forest on Mars so it maybe a bit overkill ;-)

Looks like a swivel hip tractor or wheel loader. I suggest having a suspension.

Hub motors may sound great, but they mean lots of unsprung weight. Ok for a very heavy vehicle, or a slow one.

[DistantTemple]

*snip*
My favorite real world machine for real useful exploration has always been the Timberjack.  But there aren't very many forest on Mars so it maybe a bit overkill ;-)

Looks like a swivel hip tractor or wheel loader. I suggest having a suspension.

Hub motors may sound great, but they mean lots of unsprung weight. Ok for a very heavy vehicle, or a slow one.

Analysing the negative impact on the design and performance of the vehicle from 4 hub motors is beyond my maths! So inbstead a non-mathematical opinion: At high speed on a highway somewhat massive hubmotors will probably help, as the tyres will be forced to absorb  more of the small bumps in the road, due to the inertia of the hubmoters. At low speed it will not matter much. At high speed on an off road surface, they could increase the risk to wheels tyres and suspension, if random large rocks are hit, as the wheel will be less able to rise quickly over the obstruction. On sideways slopes it would help to lower the centre of mass, and spread it wide to the edges of the vehicle, reducing the risk of rolling over.

[DistantTemple]

Cheapchips' post about "Elite Dangerous" (ED) above looks totally wacky and far from a Cybertruck. However the front wheels in the Bladerrunner "car" are slightly like the "legs" in the ED.

Elon is wedded to "first principles" Despite comments about "beauty", when he says "like bladerunner"  I think he will be referring to first principles, physics, and engineering, and not so much body style.

The way wheels grab the ground and transform rotational energy into kinetic energy of the vehicle, in any terrain is one key point of departure.

Doing away with the fixed axle height that limits the type and role of the vehicle is another.

Being able to cross obstacles that would otherwise block a wheeled vehicle, especially where it is massively inconvenient for the humans to disembark is the final driver.

This will be the Martian exploration vehicle par excellence! Also suitable in Canada, Antarctica, Alaska, and Siberia.... and for dropping the Kids to school!

[lamontagne]

Elite Dangerous has a fun concept for a hub motor 'go anywhere' scout vehicle.  The wheels tuck in for transport.

It's a hoot to drive around. Obviously a bit gamey given the source but it has directional thrusters that allow hops and pin it down on lower gravity moons.

This is not going to fulfill the intent of the original post, move a lot of regolith.  It's going to be a very limited use exploration vehicle.  The Semi platform may be less exciting, but it's much more capable and will get the job done much better.

[_MECO]

On the topic of vehicles, what is the practical upper limit on speed be for vehicles driving on unprepared regolith on the Moon or Mars? There's less gravitational force but your mass won't change, so vehicles would either need far wider wheelbases or simply to not go as fast.

[Cheapchips]

Elite Dangerous has a fun concept for a hub motor 'go anywhere' scout vehicle.  The wheels tuck in for transport.

It's a hoot to drive around. Obviously a bit gamey given the source but it has directional thrusters that allow hops and pin it down on lower gravity moons.

This is not going to fulfill the intent of the original post, move a lot of regolith.  It's going to be a very limited use exploration vehicle.  The Semi platform may be less exciting, but it's much more capable and will get the job done much better.

Agree, ED's SRV just sprang to mind as an fun hub motor example.  I think your semi based concepts are much more likely.  From a visual perspective, I really want to beef up the wheels on your renders though, even if in practice that's unnecessary.

Something I'm keen to see at the Truck event is what progress they expect on off road autonomy.  Then how do you translate neural nets trained on Earth terrain to Moon/Mars?  TV Sci-fi teaches us that an Earth quarry with a coloured lens filter would be an exact replica of an alien environment.  Not sure that's entire true. 

 

 

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1197627433970589696

Tesla Cybertruck (pressurized edition) will be official truck of Mars

twitter.com/ward069/status/1197627109595865090

You think Cybertruck will be used on Mars?

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1197627240697061376

Of course

[DistantTemple]

So some blade runner / Mars suitable ideas, (quite mad and no hint from EM or SX that these could be included):

1. Suspension that changes geometry with at least "air" suspension that can be set at an enormous "off road" setting through normal, to extreme low "race" or "freeway" setting.

1a. Suspension moves the wheels OUT SIDEWAYS to make a wider stable "super off road" setting. Possibly adapting 1. to keep the body closer to horizontal when sideways on a steep slope.

2. 4 Wheel steering. With seamless control !

3. A motor in each wheel. This is the biggest change as it means that the existing S, X, and 3 powertrains cannot be used! But would really enable more freedom to do the above items.

4. Pretty enormous tyres like 36" dia or more. And quite wide, allowing each motor to be within the hub area and not protrude wider than the tyre.

5. The basic frame of the vehicle to continue to be some kind of "skateboard" to enable future use for a range of vehicles, including vans, trucks, and mini-busses etc. both on and off-world.

6. All parts at risk from vacuum and/or extreme (space) cold/heat to be either already prepared for this, or have a planned upgrade path for this - for off-world use.

7. The rear section will have some kind of fold up rigid cover to provide aerodynamics, and security. This could include the sides of the "bed" being much lower (this conflicts with big wheels)

8. The doors may have a 2-degrees of freedom, hinging both out and up, depending on sensed obstacles. When closed a clamp will pull the opening edge in to make a secure pressure (and water) seal.

9. An egress panel in the roof will be used in flood etc. So the vehicle will be impervious to flooding, and will be able to "drive" in water by tucking its wheels into the "highway" setting. (A water jet(s) will be a later option)

10. It will be possible to relocate (or duplicate) the driving position to a seat that lifts out of the open roof!

EM did say "Bladerunner". I'm thinking slightly mad max! However slightly "transformers" seems relevant. How can the Cybertruck, be several such different vehicles all at once? Well by transforming! Electric motors allow what could only be done at slower speeds with hydraulics previously. Tesla has developed several motors already, and a serious hub motor will be needed for multi-wheel transporters on Mars, similar to "Roll-Lift" but for moving large (but lighter)  equipment and HABS, over rougher terrain.

Future options include a 6 and 8 wheeled version. The hub motors and all wheel steering make this increase modular, and technically easier, if expensive. This tends toward the "Armadillo" in Armageddon, and paves the way for such a space vehicle-cum-mobileHAB for planetoid and asteroid exploration as well as Mars deep exploration.

A wide base is stable, but illegal on roads. Therefore transforming the wheelbase width is needed. This pretty much requires independent hub motors. Once you have hub motors, 4 wheel steering is easier. It even allows absolutely crazy rock climbing - which in the future will be controlled by the vehicle's AI ! Even almost "walking" by independently adjusting each wheel's position with the brakes locked!

The width can have software locks for legal road use in various jurisdictions.

Since seeing Musks tweet: <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-cards="hidden" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Cybertruck design influenced partly by The Spy Who Loved Me https://t.co/HKBzxFNfzm</p>&mdash; Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 21 November 2019
Final Bet before reveal:
I am more convinced than ever that the wheels will have some unconventional suspension! No they will not fold inside flat like Jame's but they will be able to retract to racing height, and push far down to rock climber position.
Since EM earlier said "dual motor" I retract my hub motor scheme for a later update.... Although 4 (hub) motors is obviously the correct engineering solution, even if it is using long extensible prop shafts!
However the submarine/boat concept reinforced my roof hatch and driving position! The EM Mars (PRESSURISED) rover tweet conflicts with the flat James Bond version! but it will just have to be a thicker slice!

[su27k]

The more I hear, the more it starts to sound like NASA's own concept vehicle:

If I'm not mistaken, this concept vehicle was built by Delaware North, the private company run KSC visitor center, as an attraction. I don't think much NASA concept went into it.

[50_Caliber]

The Tesla Truck definitely looks like a Mars/moon rover. The Tesla armor glass is very interesting, albeit it provided an embarrassment at the reveal when the truck window broke. The demonstration of the toughness of the steel was impressive though.

 

[Ludus]

I suspect they never tried that test on the actual truck, just drop tests and throws at a separate truck door. The stainless steel body would hold the glass rigidly in place not letting any energy dissipate with movement.
 
The same stainless steel alloy used for Starship.

[Cheapchips]

Wonder how they'll adapt it to be pressurised?  They've ditched body shell sat on a skate of other Teslas.  The triangular cab/bed is structural, so the silhouette probably can't change that much. 

[50_Caliber]

Wonder how they'll adapt it to be pressurised?  They've ditched body shell sat on a skate of other Teslas.  The triangular cab/structured is structural, so the silhouette probably can't change that much.

I think they'll get rid of the doors; from looking at the interior, it definitely has room for an entry hatch on the top.

[Oli]

After seeing that abomination I can now safely say that Elon is dead serious about Mars.

Ah well, Elon actually said it himself, should read thread 

[su27k]

Wonder how they'll adapt it to be pressurised?  They've ditched body shell sat on a skate of other Teslas.  The triangular cab/bed is structural, so the silhouette probably can't change that much. 

Yeah, I'm not sure how much relevance this truck has in relation to rovers. However it's quite interesting to read the optimizations and trade-offs they did in order to mass produce it at low cost, such as having the stainless steel body as structural. I think this design process is more relevant to this forum, since this is probably the same design process they're using on Starship.

[sanman]

Does Musk's latest announced vehicle, the Cybertruck, have the makings of an off-world rover for the Moon or Mars?




https://www.space.com/tesla-cybertruck-stainless-steel-spacex-starship.html

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-cybertruck-sure-mars-rover-concept

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1197627433970589696



Is this just a promotional marketing ploy by Musk -- a la "Falcon-wing" doors -- or is there sound reason to believe that the development of Cybertruck could aid in the development of an off-world lunar/Mars rover?

What elements of the Cybertruck vehicle could be most useful in an off-world rover, and what would have to be modified/upgraded in order to meet the demands of a lunar/Mars environment?

What would be the useful applications or operational needs that such a vehicle have to  be designed to fulfill?

Is there any NASA contract that such an off-world vehicle might be offered up for, with a chance to gain government funding?

What other off-world concepts would this vehicle have to compete against? And how do they compare?

[Markstark]

Bit off-topic, but I could see the military interested in the tri-motor variant for terrestrial applications. Pricing and range are very impressive (also very very fast).

Some of those features may make it attractive for space applications as well.

I don’t know much about EV/battery technology. Only that cold weather is a challenge. Can someone more knowledge speak to whether one of these could be delivered to the moon on a Starship and used as an unpressurized rover as-is? Would electronics require rad hardening to survive?

As far as competitors, I recall some recent press releases about JAXA and Toyota working on a rover.

[sanman]

It does look like some crossover hybrid of a Humvee and a DeLorean. Musk was boasting that the ultra-hard steel shell was somewhat bulletproof (which is more than can be said of a basic Humvee).
Maybe that would make them micrometeoroid-resistant as well.

I was thinking that the rubber tires would have to be replaced with a more metallized version to withstand the off-world environment.

Perhaps the interior cabin environment isn't so large as to require a more spherical shape to contain atmospheric pressure.
Shouldn't an off-world rover necessarily have a larger interior volume?

I was imagining that those flat angular top surfaces would be fitted with solar panels for recharging in situ.

How about a bulldozer variant for clearing and preparing surfaces as landing pads?

Wouldn't they have to seriously limit the speed on the vehicle, to avoid launching off the bumpy ground in lower gravity environments like the Moon or Mars?

[docmordrid]

I see a vacuum-modded Cybertruck skateboard with several coachwork/equipment options. The trailer shown below may also have possibilities.

[DistantTemple]

The Cybertruck could easily have a CyberVan variant, where the lines of the fromt wedge carry further back, and then go horizontal over the "bed" - which then becomes the "van". This would be a useful off-road van (or light "APC"!) for Earth use, but for Off-Earth could increase the pressurised volume, and provide a large vertical door or lock at the rear, or maybe "suitlocks" (where the suit remains "outside", and the person climbs into it from "inside" and then detaches)

Another possibility for off-Earth, is to ditch the aerodynamics altogether, and make the "van" part be just a large box, with full standing height, from the existing angle in the roof, aft.

This large rear "door" could also allow a concertina joint to a large trailer HAB module, loosely based on the trailer shown above.

I agree large flat surfaces are not ideal for a pressure vessel at all!