Starlink : Uses other than LEO Communications

[ChrisWilson68]

Thank you everyone who replied.

So it sounds like the concept is 'plausible but unlikely at the current tech level' and thus unlikely to be something incorporated into the current Starlink configuration.

My reason for asking the question is based off of the obvious synergies between all of Elon's current companies in relation to his announced Mars Colonization goals.

SpaceX, Starship obviously.
Tesla, ruggedized electric vehicles would be the most useful form of surface transport; plus the former 'Solar City' products (power wall and solar panels) for power generation and storage.

In light of that, it seemed to me that the addition of the communications infrastructure presented by Starlink could be a key feature if it eventually developed to include the mentioned capability.  Particularly if such a system were put into place around Mars as well.

My guess is that this type of thing will be something to keep an eye out for as Elon's plans progress, as said communications infrastructure would be a minimum requirement to help maintain a 'Martian Technocracy' as Elon phrased it.

Having a communications infrastructure for communications between a Mars colony and Earth is not a difficult problem compared with all the other problems that need to be solved, and its cost is tiny compared with the other costs.  It would probably be better for Mars if the designers of Starlink never think about Mars, because doing so might distract them.  Feature creep is real.  People are always tempted to generalize things a bit to cover some other use case.  Sometimes, doing that makes sense.  Sometimes, it doesn't because it makes the solution less good for the original purpose in ways that can be difficult to see when designing it.  Starlink being financially successful to fund a Mars colony is orders of magnitude more important that worrying now about trying to make it expandable to Mars applications that I would think it's better not to have the designers even think about it.

Later, when it's time for a Mars communication system -- or, rather, an upgraded Mars communication system because there are already multiple Mars communication systems used for robotic exploration today -- Starlink will be available to borrow from to the extent it makes sense.

[su27k]

https://twitter.com/MarkHolum/status/1475482069094612993

We're already basically seeing one...  there's good circumstantial evidence that at least some of the starlink satellites have a us govt. payload on them


SpaceX's unannounced USG programs are about the worst kept secret there is...


Over the past few years there have been quite a few jobs on spacex's boards for TS clearance holders to do payload simulations to integrate something.   People have also noted over the past few years, that spacex has bid and won certain non pubic competitions.

[su27k]

Elon Musk's Starlink Files For Data Imagery, GPS Location Trademarks: Why This Expert Says They're 'Something To Pay Attention To'

“There was some new language we didn’t see in other filings,” trademark attorney Josh Gerben of Gerben Law told Benzinga.

One item that stood out to Gerben was the wording of “intent to use Starlink to provide real time imagery from satellites.”

<snip>

The other item that stuck out to Gerben was the language on geo-location systems and global positioning systems.

<snip>

The language of the trademark filing says “excluding the U.S. government’s global positioning systems,” Gerben flagged on Twitter.

“We’re looking at a complete commercial GPS system that Starlink is planning on offering.”

Can see the pending application here: https://trademarks.justia.com/976/29/starlink-97629115.html

[Asteroza]

Elon Musk's Starlink Files For Data Imagery, GPS Location Trademarks: Why This Expert Says They're 'Something To Pay Attention To'

“There was some new language we didn’t see in other filings,” trademark attorney Josh Gerben of Gerben Law told Benzinga.

One item that stood out to Gerben was the wording of “intent to use Starlink to provide real time imagery from satellites.”

<snip>

The other item that stuck out to Gerben was the language on geo-location systems and global positioning systems.

<snip>

The language of the trademark filing says “excluding the U.S. government’s global positioning systems,” Gerben flagged on Twitter.

“We’re looking at a complete commercial GPS system that Starlink is planning on offering.”

Can see the pending application here: https://trademarks.justia.com/976/29/starlink-97629115.html

Large-ish constellation PNT is becoming a thing now, with Guowang and now Sfera allegedly incorporating PNT functions into a civil/military fusion constellation network. It stands to reasons that Starlink doing PNT means OneWeb is effectively now forced into a shotgun marriage with Gallileo.

That realtime imagery from Starlink VLEO sats is going to make so many newspace earth observation startups cry. How can you fight a behemoth with a huge constellation launch rate being augmented with the scraps from their ISL production line, when you are dredging the VC investment barrel to fly a few small sats at best? The only way to fight that in my mind is to go super low VLEO to up resolution (like the air breathing electric thruster sat concepts), or do the gorgon stare routine from GEO like the DARPA MOIRE project for actual realtime video. The only thing keeping Maxar and Planet from getting steamrolled is the lower resolution due to smaller optics. Too bad Starlink doesn't have a precision optics bench setup, they could have potentially ganged their existing ISL beam director telescopes together to get a larger aperture.

Starlink could potentially have a freebie maritime SAR observation service too since their don't need all 4 phased arrays running comms functions most of the time when flying over the ocean. That would kick every maritime SAR startup right in the jimmies while the US Navy salivates in a corner.

It's almost like Musk is in Silicon Valley thinking mode, where Starlink is not a product but a platform. And platforms can have cloud hyperscaling if you touch a daily pain point (I think one of the Google founders famous said they want to work on things people have to use at least once per day)

[kevin-rf]

Many of the more useful additions would add mass and volume to the satellites.  Especially imaging systems of useful quality. 

The up and down link are different frequencies, so without additional hardware even radar is likely out.

 I do wonder if  the frequencies are right for weather radar over ocean areas.

[meekGee]

Many of the more useful additions would add mass and volume to the satellites.  Especially imaging systems of useful quality. 

The up and down link are different frequencies, so without additional hardware even radar is likely out.

 I do wonder if  the frequencies are right for weather radar over ocean areas.

I figured a lot of the mass is the power and propulsion systems, so the marginal mass increase will be relatively small.

[AmigaClone]

<snip>
That realtime imagery from Starlink VLEO sats is going to make so many newspace earth observation startups cry. How can you fight a behemoth with a huge constellation launch rate being augmented with the scraps from their ISL production line, when you are dredging the VC investment barrel to fly a few small sats at best?
<snip>

Many of the more useful additions would add mass and volume to the satellites.  Especially imaging systems of useful quality. 

The up and down link are different frequencies, so without additional hardware even radar is likely out.

 I do wonder if  the frequencies are right for weather radar over ocean areas.

I figured a lot of the mass is the power and propulsion systems, so the marginal mass increase will be relatively small.

If Starlink does decide to add imaging capabilities to some of their satellites, I imagine it would be only in one group. In the proposal for SpaceX's next Ka/Ku band Starlink constellation, there is one group that is to be located in either SSO or near SSO at 360 km. An imaging system installed in a Starlink 2.x in that orbit with a resolution between 3 and 5 meters would add very little mass - in fact changing the structure of the satellite might even mean a mass lower than the original ones.

Better imaging would mean more mass, although I would not expect Starlink to include an imaging system that would not fit inside a Starlink 2.x satellite.