Author Topic: Barnstorming Spaceships, ala Requiem (Heinlein)  (Read 2044 times)

Offline Eer

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Barnstorming Spaceships, ala Requiem (Heinlein)
« on: 09/04/2019 08:09 pm »
One memorable story by Robert Heinlein featured a couple of old-time spacers who owned a space ship they used to barnstorm around the country side giving rides to folks who wanted to ride a rocket.

The term "barnstorm" refers back to the early days of human flight - hot air balloons and bi-wing airplanes - and the exciting practice of flying around (visual flight rules of the day) from grass landing strips, buzzing (flying low overhead) crowds, farmers and barns, to generate excitement and gather crowds to pay to see what was going on.

This story, Requiem, featured a space ship that was passed its prime, and used by a couple of guys who could keep it flying, and eventually it came to the attention of DD Harriman - "The Man Who Sold the Moon" - an Elon Musk kind of entrepreneur who was kept from achieving his life dream of going to the moon by shareholders and directors who thought he was too important to his companies to be allowed to go haring off like that.  Harriman hires the two old codgers to take him to the moon in their rattle-trap space ship, and there he dies, happy at last.

Now - here's my question -

How close are we to seeing a time where a fairly self-contained space ship, with some future equivalent of visual flight rules and private pilots licenses, hop (sub orbital, no doubt) from place to place using unprepared launch pads and landing pads, giving rides to folks at carnivals and state fairs?

I'm willing to suspend a certain amount of disbelief - Raptor engines, or whatever, will never be kind to unprepared pasture land as landing places. 

But could in-sutu production of fuel stock work?  Produce your own methane, or plug into the local LNG pipeline.  Freeze and store oxygen from ambient supplies.  Maybe you'd need a small power plant to go along with you to drive such things.

Safety has to reach the levels that bi-planes and experimental craft have today.  I get that.

But it seemed a fanciful idea to contemplate.

Until I saw the hopper build out in the dust of southern Texas, I'd never have thought to ask the question, but now ...
From "The Rhetoric of Interstellar Flight", by Paul Gilster, March 10, 2011: We’ll build a future in space one dogged step at a time, and when asked how long humanity will struggle before reaching the stars, we’ll respond, “As long as it takes.”

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Barnstorming Spaceships, ala Requiem (Heinlein)
« Reply #1 on: 09/04/2019 09:12 pm »
Small teams launching big rockets is already becoming the norm. What's lacking right now is anyone actually selling vehicles, so you also need to make your own rocketship.

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline John-H

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Re: Barnstorming Spaceships, ala Requiem (Heinlein)
« Reply #2 on: 09/04/2019 09:37 pm »
Didn't the "Rocket Racing League"   try something like that? They seem to have vanished.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Barnstorming Spaceships, ala Requiem (Heinlein)
« Reply #3 on: 09/04/2019 09:39 pm »
Didn't the "Rocket Racing League"   try something like that? They seem to have vanished.

They went broke and part of the agreement between the parties was that the racers be dismantled.

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline zodiacchris

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Re: Barnstorming Spaceships, ala Requiem (Heinlein)
« Reply #4 on: 09/04/2019 09:42 pm »
Hmm, at a time where a lot of small private airfields are getting closed because of noise complaints and residential and commercial developments, barnstorming spaceships are extremely unlikely to happen. One stuck TVC and the neighbourhood would be gone. Just the permitting process to fly something akin to a small nuclear weapon out of your backyard would be a nightmare...

Offline Lar

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Re: Barnstorming Spaceships, ala Requiem (Heinlein)
« Reply #5 on: 09/04/2019 09:46 pm »
The fuel and oxidizer quantities needed are so vast that it might be that this can't be done with chemical engines.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline eric z

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Re: Barnstorming Spaceships, ala Requiem (Heinlein)
« Reply #6 on: 09/04/2019 11:07 pm »
 There was a Tom Corbett book where Astro, Roger and Tom went on a suborbital jaunt on a ship run by a couple of smugglers dumping contraband above the atmoshere while taking space-tourists money, from Venus IIRC !

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: Barnstorming Spaceships, ala Requiem (Heinlein)
« Reply #7 on: 09/04/2019 11:41 pm »
Hmm, at a time where a lot of small private airfields are getting closed because of noise complaints and residential and commercial developments, barnstorming spaceships are extremely unlikely to happen. One stuck TVC and the neighbourhood would be gone. Just the permitting process to fly something akin to a small nuclear weapon out of your backyard would be a nightmare...

Barnstorming became prevalent because the U.S. was far less populated and the small aircraft didn't pose much of a threat.

Also, old WWI aircraft didn't routinely set the ground on fire when they landed, so finding an appropriate non-flammable landing pad could be a challenge.

But the air traffic control (ATC) for such a flight will be a nightmare if the spaceship transitions quickly from Class A, to Class E, and then lands somewhere within Class B, C or D airspace. If you're flying a high wing Cessna prop plane it won't be easy to see what is coming down on top of you...  :o
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Barnstorming Spaceships, ala Requiem (Heinlein)
« Reply #8 on: 09/05/2019 12:07 am »
Facts are what separates the science from the fiction...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator

Offline gtae07

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Re: Barnstorming Spaceships, ala Requiem (Heinlein)
« Reply #9 on: 09/06/2019 03:41 pm »
How close are we to seeing a time where a fairly self-contained space ship, with some future equivalent of visual flight rules and private pilots licenses, hop (sub orbital, no doubt) from place to place using unprepared launch pads and landing pads,

A significant fraction of The Public would soil their drawers if they realized that most light airplanes operate routinely from small airports and open fields under VFR, without ever having to file flight plans or talk to ATC or inform the government of anything.  At least in my experience a lot of people are utterly shocked that you can fly at all without being positively controlled and commanded around by ATC. 

At least small airplanes can often get by without being noticed and most people are oblivious to them.  Everyone would notice a rocket, even if the operations could be carried out safely. 

Offline su27k

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Re: Barnstorming Spaceships, ala Requiem (Heinlein)
« Reply #10 on: 09/06/2019 04:42 pm »
The fuel and oxidizer quantities needed are so vast that it might be that this can't be done with chemical engines.

Well there is John Bucknell's nuclear SSTO which only uses 10% of the propellant load of a chemical rocket, just need a GW reactor plus a few hundred kg of highly enriched U-235....

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Barnstorming Spaceships, ala Requiem (Heinlein)
« Reply #11 on: 09/08/2019 11:19 am »
How close are we to seeing a time where a fairly self-contained space ship, with some future equivalent of visual flight rules and private pilots licenses, hop (sub orbital, no doubt) from place to place using unprepared launch pads and landing pads,

A significant fraction of The Public would soil their drawers if they realized that most light airplanes operate routinely from small airports and open fields under VFR, without ever having to file flight plans or talk to ATC or inform the government of anything.  At least in my experience a lot of people are utterly shocked that you can fly at all without being positively controlled and commanded around by ATC. 

At least small airplanes can often get by without being noticed and most people are oblivious to them.  Everyone would notice a rocket, even if the operations could be carried out safely.

slightly OT

Well the time you might be able to fly without a flight plan or no contact with the air traffic control system might be coming to an end soon.

GPS and VLEO satcom constellations finally make it technically possible to tracked and control all air traffic.

There still be no local air traffic control towers at small airports. But it seems not that hard to have some kind of remotely operated observation systems linked to a regional control center in the future.

The impetus to required the air traffic control to know where all airborne vehicles are at all time is to defend against someone using an airplane as a guided missile, IMO. Even a single engine prop plane carrying a few dozen kilos of explosives does more damage than most anti-tank missile.

Also the location of down aircraft from mishaps will be easily accessible by rescue services. At least within a few thousand meters.

Back on topic

@Eer

Don't think manned spaceships will ever be allow to fly VFR without a flight plan that had been reviewed and approved. Along with being in communications and tracked by the air traffic control system.

Since said spaceship is the equivalent of a large ballistic missile.

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