Author Topic: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion  (Read 290605 times)

Offline Seamore Holdings

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #500 on: 11/21/2019 11:12 pm »
Very disappointed to report, SpaceX is scrapping the single weld rings at Cocoa already created. There were 23 single weld rings. 1 is installed on MK2. On Monday, before MK1's problem, SpaceX started scrapping them. They have scrapped 5 already as of 21 November. In the picture two rings can be seen being chopped up. credit Seamore Holdings
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Offline docmordrid

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #501 on: 11/21/2019 11:24 pm »
Sounds like new tooling is on the way, again.
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Offline marsbase

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #502 on: 11/22/2019 12:28 am »
Very disappointed to report, SpaceX is scrapping the single weld rings at Cocoa already created. There were 23 single weld rings. 1 is installed on MK2. On Monday, before MK1's problem, SpaceX started scrapping them. They have scrapped 5 already as of 21 November. In the picture two rings can be seen being chopped up. credit Seamore Holdings
Could you explain how these single weld rings at Cocoa were made?  Does this mean one ring made of a single band of steel and welded end to end?  Is this two rings welded together top to base in a single weld?  Or something else.

Very disappointed to report, SpaceX is scrapping the single weld rings at Cocoa already created. There were 23 single weld rings.

I just thought of something, could these be rejects? We know before they started stacking them two high and aren't some 4 high that some were marked to be discarded. Since they started joining them I don't know if those were disposed of or were still sitting there.

Also these would be what was thought of as MK4 or SuperHeavy. So is the next design iteration that Elon spoke of not even going to be single weld rings? Could spiral welding be coming? Spiral welding was ruled out due to the varying thickness of the plates but if the skin is now going to be all the same thickness, spiral could be an option...

But I'm wondering if these aren't rejected rings and the double stack ones will go forward.

Offline docmordrid

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #504 on: 11/22/2019 01:14 am »
Very disappointed to report, SpaceX is scrapping the single weld rings at Cocoa already created. There were 23 single weld rings. 1 is installed on MK2. On Monday, before MK1's problem, SpaceX started scrapping them. They have scrapped 5 already as of 21 November. In the picture two rings can be seen being chopped up. credit Seamore Holdings

Could you explain how these single weld rings at Cocoa were made?  Does this mean one ring made of a single band of steel and welded end to end?  Is this two rings welded together top to base in a single weld?  Or something else.

Yes

Credit: John Winkoop
« Last Edit: 11/22/2019 01:14 am by docmordrid »
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Offline CJ

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #505 on: 11/22/2019 01:18 am »
Very disappointed to report, SpaceX is scrapping the single weld rings at Cocoa already created. There were 23 single weld rings. 1 is installed on MK2. On Monday, before MK1's problem, SpaceX started scrapping them. They have scrapped 5 already as of 21 November. In the picture two rings can be seen being chopped up. credit Seamore Holdings

Bolding mine.

Thank you for this report, sad though it is. However, per the bolded part, this does seem to put an end to the speculation that Mk1s problem was the reason for the design change.

Offline Eka

Scrapping lots of stuff. Rumors of Mk1 wasn't going to fly even before the RUD. Sunk costs already being discarded. It all suggests,,, radical change... Something Musk is known for. That's all it can be. I can see either 9m is out and/or there is a materials change. I'd love to know what their simulations are telling them. I wonder how much the Raptor sans throttle has changed things? It's a thrust beast.
We talk about creating a Star Trek future, but will end up with The Expanse if radical change doesn't happen.

Offline ShSch

Very disappointed to report, SpaceX is scrapping the single weld rings at Cocoa already created. There were 23 single weld rings. 1 is installed on MK2. On Monday, before MK1's problem, SpaceX started scrapping them. They have scrapped 5 already as of 21 November. In the picture two rings can be seen being chopped up. credit Seamore Holdings
You can see that this ring (and a few others) was marked as "Scrap" back in September:
   https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48892.msg1990480#msg1990480

Also, all the rings that are currently being cut don't have the internal rib reinforcement, I believe. I will start worrying when they begin to chop those that do :)
« Last Edit: 11/22/2019 07:49 am by ShSch »

Online sferrin

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #508 on: 11/22/2019 09:44 am »
So if the Mk3 is the new design going forward, what happens to this partially complete Mk2?  Scrap?  Modify it to the Mk3 standard?  Could that be why little has happened to it over the last month or so?
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Offline Seamore Holdings

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #509 on: 11/22/2019 11:56 am »
I think retooling for the next generation of Starship has already begun. On 8 November 2019, a new rig was delivered to the Cocoa Facility re: 1st picture (credit Seamore Holdings). The other pictures were Tweeted by @BocachicaMaria1 Maria Pointer on 21 November 2019 (credit Maria Pointer). They will probably raise the wide tent at Cocoa by one or two containers, and we can expect to see Ultra-Tall single weld rings very soon.
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Offline Seamore Holdings

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #510 on: 11/22/2019 12:02 pm »
The wide tent in foreground of this picture (credit Seamore Holdings) is the tent, I suspect will be raise up soon to fit Ultra-tall single weld ring manufacturing. Notice the white rectangles between the two tent areas. Those are stacks of newly delivered steel sheets. I do not expect changes in dome construction or nose cone construction.
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Offline fael097

The wide tent in foreground of this picture (credit Seamore Holdings) is the tent, I suspect will be raise up soon to fit Ultra-tall single weld ring manufacturing. Notice the white rectangles between the two tent areas. Those are stacks of newly delivered steel sheets. I do not expect changes in dome construction or nose cone construction.

there are aero/raceway and leg covers that were never installed on mk2. wonder if those are being scrapped too
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Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #512 on: 11/22/2019 01:59 pm »
Very disappointed to report, SpaceX is scrapping the single weld rings at Cocoa already created. There were 23 single weld rings. 1 is installed on MK2. On Monday, before MK1's problem, SpaceX started scrapping them. They have scrapped 5 already as of 21 November. In the picture two rings can be seen being chopped up. credit Seamore Holdings
The fact that they stopped after making one ring in Boca Chica had me suspicious that they'd decided to change things.
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Offline rsdavis9

I am beginning to think human welded rings is out.
I think pre welding rings is out.
More of a continuous build process.
1. One ring vertical weld.
2. Next ring positioned on top or bottom of first ring for precise fit. Weld.
3. etc.

They may go to electronic welding with doubling ring(10 cm wide?) Atlas SS tank?

The domes may be manufactured with spin forming. Or some other kind of continuous forming. Weight is the enemy here. Less welds the better for maximum strength per weight.
With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
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Offline SteveU

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #514 on: 11/22/2019 03:54 pm »
I am beginning to think human welded rings is out.
I think pre welding rings is out.
More of a continuous build process.
1. One ring vertical weld.
2. Next ring positioned on top or bottom of first ring for precise fit. Weld.
3. etc.

They may go to electronic welding with doubling ring(10 cm wide?) Atlas SS tank?

The domes may be manufactured with spin forming. Or some other kind of continuous forming. Weight is the enemy here. Less welds the better for maximum strength per weight.
Agree with a more continuous assembly process.  we've already seen how much additional effort is involved in field stacking pre-assembled ring sections.

I think the other thing we'll see is a completely different method in building the nose section.  It is so very difficult to accurately create a "stack-able" nose, there are only a few ways to go - construct an inner frame, place all the hardware in the frame then construct the skin - or - build the complete curved section of nose and lift all components up from bottom.
[edit spelling]
« Last Edit: 11/22/2019 03:58 pm by SteveU »
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Offline Anjin_

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #515 on: 11/22/2019 03:55 pm »
The wide tent in foreground of this picture (credit Seamore Holdings) is the tent, I suspect will be raise up soon to fit Ultra-tall single weld ring manufacturing. Notice the white rectangles between the two tent areas. Those are stacks of newly delivered steel sheets. I do not expect changes in dome construction or nose cone construction.

I wonder if these blue cylinders are double height steel rolls. Whatever they are, the blue stuff is definitely a removable protective layer since you can see some of it that has been removed and discarded on the ground outside of the tent.

Offline docmordrid

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #516 on: 11/22/2019 06:06 pm »
If those are 8' tall shipping containers the rolls could be 8-10 feet long.

Stretching the guesswork further, they may have had them pre-cut for length to where 1 roll = 1 ring circumference.

Extra points if somewhere they're using the bulletproof* 3mm 301 stainless steel they're using on Cybertruck.

* for 9mm
« Last Edit: 11/22/2019 06:12 pm by docmordrid »
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Offline marsbase

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #517 on: 11/22/2019 06:18 pm »
Extra points if somewhere they're using the bulletproof* 3mm 301 stainless steel they're using on Cybertruck.
Makes me wonder about the massive viewports on Starship.  Better stay away from dense, spherical space debris.

Offline docmordrid

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #518 on: 11/22/2019 06:57 pm »
Extra points if somewhere they're using the bulletproof* 3mm 301 stainless steel they're using on Cybertruck.
Makes me wonder about the massive viewports on Starship.  Better stay away from dense, spherical space debris.

I think Starship windows should incorporate ALON, aluminum oxynitride - which can stop a .50 BMG sniper round.
« Last Edit: 11/22/2019 07:37 pm by docmordrid »
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I think Starship windows should incorporate ALON, aluminum oxynitride - which can stop an .50 BMG sniper round.

Transparent Aluminum! Star Trek the Voyage Home comes to Starship! Wow, I didn't even know that existed, scifi becomes science fact. Yahoo.

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