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Dynamic Vacuum Model and Casimir Cavity Experiments
by
Monomorphic
on 20 Aug, 2019 23:20
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#1
by
Bob012345
on 21 Aug, 2019 17:44
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I assume the applied magnetic field can be higher as well as can be carried along as part of the engine? I mean the equal and opposite reaction is on the vacuum- whatever that means....
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#2
by
Asteroza
on 21 Aug, 2019 23:33
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Reposting here as it may be relevant given the phonon related discussion.
The gravitational mass carried by sound wavesCould that actually be a manifestation of the drive force perhaps, thus having a highly optimized bulk material in the form of the Casimir Array wafer creates an asymmetric force that we interpret to be a propulsive force, compared to a random bulk material where a lot of the forces cancel out?
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#3
by
A.Ant
on 27 Aug, 2019 20:57
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http://vixra.org/abs/1404.0097Using the Casimir Force for the Controlled Motion of Macrobodies
2014-04-12 04:33:32
..............................
Abstract
Considered the Casimir effect for construction «angle bar». Theoretically discovered uncompensated force in the direction from the top of the angle bar to its opening angle. Assessment of the magnitude of this force.
..............................
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#4
by
MathewOrman
on 27 Aug, 2019 21:18
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But two plates in vacuum are attracted by each other trough force of mutual gravity and vacuum represent empty space which has one property and that is ability to contain matter... Thus saying that vacuum or empty space fluctuate is illogical or false... :-)
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#5
by
Bob012345
on 27 Aug, 2019 23:36
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But two plates in vacuum are attracted by each other trough force of mutual gravity and vacuum represent empty space which has one property and that is ability to contain matter... Thus saying that vacuum or empty space fluctuate is illogical or false... :-)
It's the basis of Quantum Field Theory whether we like it or not....
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#6
by
MathewOrman
on 28 Aug, 2019 03:22
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But two plates in vacuum are attracted by each other trough force of mutual gravity and vacuum represent empty space which has one property and that is ability to contain matter... Thus saying that vacuum or empty space fluctuate is illogical or false... :-)
It's the basis of Quantum Field Theory whether we like it of not....
And that is why nothing works based on that theory... Mathematical manipulation of false assumptions will not yield true laws of physics... :-)
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#7
by
meberbs
on 28 Aug, 2019 06:46
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But two plates in vacuum are attracted by each other trough force of mutual gravity and vacuum represent empty space which has one property and that is ability to contain matter... Thus saying that vacuum or empty space fluctuate is illogical or false... :-)
It's the basis of Quantum Field Theory whether we like it of not....
And that is why nothing works based on that theory... Mathematical manipulation of false assumptions will not yield true laws of physics... :-)
Quantum mechanics predicts the emission spectra of various elements to high accuracy. The standard model of particle physics has predicted the detection of new particles and explains many things. While the device that this topic is about almost certainly does not work, that would be because it is not actually based on real quantum theory, not because there is anything wrong with quantum mechanics, which still obeys conservation of momentum if you actually do the math correctly.
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#8
by
Bob012345
on 03 Sep, 2019 18:06
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But two plates in vacuum are attracted by each other trough force of mutual gravity and vacuum represent empty space which has one property and that is ability to contain matter... Thus saying that vacuum or empty space fluctuate is illogical or false... :-)
It's the basis of Quantum Field Theory whether we like it of not....
And that is why nothing works based on that theory... Mathematical manipulation of false assumptions will not yield true laws of physics... :-)
Quantum mechanics predicts the emission spectra of various elements to high accuracy. The standard model of particle physics has predicted the detection of new particles and explains many things. While the device that this topic is about almost certainly does not work, that would be because it is not actually based on real quantum theory, not because there is anything wrong with quantum mechanics, which still obeys conservation of momentum if you actually do the math correctly.
I see no reason for such pessimism. The effect is very small and seems consistent with QFT theory. Dynamic Casimir Effect is a real thing. Pilot Wave Theory is completely compatible in its predictions with standard QM and not considered as quack physics. In fact its history goes back to de Broglie himself. It's also called de Broglie-Bohm Theory after David Bohm who formulated it in its final form.
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#9
by
RotoSequence
on 03 Sep, 2019 18:48
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I see no reason for such pessimism. The effect is very small and seems consistent with QFT theory. Dynamic Casimir Effect is a real thing. Pilot Wave Theory is completely compatible in its predictions with standard QM and not considered as quack physics. In fact its history goes back to de Broglie himself. It's also called de Broglie-Bohm Theory after David Bohm who formulated it in its final form.
De Broglie-Bohm Theory and the Copenhagen Interpretation do not offer competing physical results, and no one has yet performed an experiment that yields an observable difference. However, many of Pilot Wave Theory's previous, proposed forms have been experimentally invalidated.
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#10
by
Bryan_Kelly
on 12 Sep, 2019 17:23
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IMO, this is a very creative approach but perhaps overly ambitious, i.e., attempting interactions with the vacuum before gravity is mastered.
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#11
by
dustinthewind
on 13 Sep, 2019 15:19
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IMO, this is a very creative approach but perhaps overly ambitious, i.e., attempting interactions with the vacuum before gravity is mastered.
The very nature of the vacuum is probably in space-time itself. Gravity waves are space-time waves. Particles are probably constructed from the very existence of space-time itself, or the vacuum. Gravity is probably related to this in that the energy of space-time starts depleating of energy around matter. As the energy depletes time slows down, SpaceTime shrinks like a balloon, getting cold, and the very fabric contracts. Objects experience more energy on one side of the vacuum than the other when experiencing gravity. The very nature of the lorentz contraction is probably related to the local vacuum surrounding the object. early inflation of the universe was probably due to energy being lost to space-time inflating the vacuum like a thermally inflated baloon such as black holes lose energy of space-time now. Some of that really just my speculation but I think there's a relationship that will probably be shown to be true with time.
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#12
by
Star-Drive
on 14 Sep, 2019 16:50
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IMO, this is a very creative approach but perhaps overly ambitious, i.e., attempting interactions with the vacuum before gravity is mastered.
The very nature of the vacuum is probably in space-time itself. Gravity waves are space-time waves. Particles are probably constructed from the very existence of space-time itself, or the vacuum. Gravity is probably related to this in that the energy of space-time starts depleating of energy around matter. As the energy depletes time slows down, SpaceTime shrinks like a balloon, getting cold, and the very fabric contracts. Objects experience more energy on one side of the vacuum than the other when experiencing gravity. The very nature of the lorentz contraction is probably related to the local vacuum surrounding the object. early inflation of the universe was probably due to energy being lost to space-time inflating the vacuum like a thermally inflated baloon such as black holes lose energy of space-time now. Some of that really just my speculation but I think there's a relationship that will probably be shown to be true with time.
Dustinthewind:
You might consider Dr. White's Quantum Vacuum (
Q-V) conjecture which makes an attempt at combining Woodward's Mach-Effect (
M-E) with the Magneto-Hydro-Dynamics (
MHD) of the Q-V when looking at how propellantless propulsion could work. The NASA/JSC Eagleworks (
EW) Lab had good numerical calculation results when using this model in estimating the thrust levels observed in the EW Lab's copper frustum EMdrive test article with a polyethylene disc insert. I've appended several slides from that time period for your review.
Best, Paul M.
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#13
by
dustinthewind
on 14 Sep, 2019 17:49
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IMO, this is a very creative approach but perhaps overly ambitious, i.e., attempting interactions with the vacuum before gravity is mastered.
The very nature of the vacuum is probably in space-time itself. Gravity waves are space-time waves. Particles are probably constructed from the very existence of space-time itself, or the vacuum. Gravity is probably related to this in that the energy of space-time starts depleating of energy around matter. As the energy depletes time slows down, SpaceTime shrinks like a balloon, getting cold, and the very fabric contracts. Objects experience more energy on one side of the vacuum than the other when experiencing gravity. The very nature of the lorentz contraction is probably related to the local vacuum surrounding the object. early inflation of the universe was probably due to energy being lost to space-time inflating the vacuum like a thermally inflated baloon such as black holes lose energy of space-time now. Some of that really just my speculation but I think there's a relationship that will probably be shown to be true with time.
Dustinthewind:
You might consider Dr. White's Quantum Vacuum (Q-V) conjecture which makes an attempt at combining Woodward's Mach-Effect (M-E) with the Magneto-Hydro-Dynamics (MHD) of the Q-V when looking at how propellantless propulsion could work. The NASA/JSC Eagleworks (EW) Lab had good numerical calculation results when using this model in estimating the thrust levels observed in the EW Lab's copper frustum EMdrive test article with a polyethylene disc insert. I've appended several slides from that time period for your review.
Best, Paul M.
Hi Paul M. I would just be speculating, If you don't mind me doing that then I'll say that I think the excitation of the vacuum is the heart of the quantum uncertainty and maybe even the pilot wave. For instance you take the nucleus of an atom that polarizes the vacuum e-p pairs via its electric field. These e-p pairs should vibrate with a minimum thermal background, similar to the fact we cant cool anything to absolute zero because the vacuum itself has a temperature. It captures an electron in this e-p pair cloud that is only partly polarized and the electron becomes a non-unique particle with an uncertainty based on the electric field and the thermal noise of the vacuum.
I also think it is "possibly" related to radioactivity. An uneven distribution of electric field in the nucleus can lead to overly polarized vacuum via too much electric field, which may allow thermal vacuum annihilate the nucleus. This thermal noise of the vacuum is related to time. Less thermal noise is slower time, thermally deflate the baloon or shorten the plank length. Atomic clocks tick slower.
I also think it's related to quantum tunneling and Feynman diagrams where particles travel backwards in time. Wheelers delayed choice experiment ect.
I think large amounts of thermal noise in the vacuum are gravitationally repulsive (float away from gravity like a hot air baloon) so I think its possible the great voids in the vacuum may be repulsed from gravity and thermally energetic. These thermally excited voids may tick faster in time, compounded with gravity of galaxies slowing time, it may appear to make the galaxies rotate faster than normal on a galactic scale. This would be our dark energy/matter. Pushing the universe apart and making galaxies rotate faster.
(This is also speculation and may be odd to think, but we live on one of the largest voids in our universe. I was pondering that large thermal voids may possibly be an indication of advanced civilizations, with warp drive, that are pumping large amounts of energy into the vacuum.)
I think initially massive energy and accelerations and jerk of the particles in the creation of the universe pumped up the quantum vacuum possibly causing the rapid expansion. Now days it would be merging black holes possibly. I think the black holes slow, reducing their effective (relativistic mass) by sending out this energy into the quantum vacuum as space-time waves or vacuum waves.
I was pondering Podkletnov's gravity impulse generator experiments were also a mach effect, in that he was accelerating electrons in superconductors possibly inducing a mach effect and his gravitational wave appeared to be repulsive or energetic vacuum.
If they are inducing a mach effect in the dielectric in the EM drive cavity then I would possibly parallel that to inducing a jerk wave form in the dielectric such that it seems to asymmetrically pull on the vacuum in one direction. Not sure how it does that exactly in the EM drive cavity. I was trying to do it with a series of frequencies or sinusoidal displacements.
Kind regards, Dustin M.
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#14
by
Star-Drive
on 14 Sep, 2019 20:32
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IMO, this is a very creative approach but perhaps overly ambitious, i.e., attempting interactions with the vacuum before gravity is mastered.
The very nature of the vacuum is probably in space-time itself. Gravity waves are space-time waves. Particles are probably constructed from the very existence of space-time itself, or the vacuum. Gravity is probably related to this in that the energy of space-time starts depleating of energy around matter. As the energy depletes time slows down, SpaceTime shrinks like a balloon, getting cold, and the very fabric contracts. Objects experience more energy on one side of the vacuum than the other when experiencing gravity. The very nature of the lorentz contraction is probably related to the local vacuum surrounding the object. early inflation of the universe was probably due to energy being lost to space-time inflating the vacuum like a thermally inflated baloon such as black holes lose energy of space-time now. Some of that really just my speculation but I think there's a relationship that will probably be shown to be true with time.
Dustinthewind:
You might consider Dr. White's Quantum Vacuum (Q-V) conjecture which makes an attempt at combining Woodward's Mach-Effect (M-E) with the Magneto-Hydro-Dynamics (MHD) of the Q-V when looking at how propellantless propulsion could work. The NASA/JSC Eagleworks (EW) Lab had good numerical calculation results when using this model in estimating the thrust levels observed in the EW Lab's copper frustum EMdrive test article with a polyethylene disc insert. I've appended several slides from that time period for your review.
Best, Paul M.
Hi Paul M. I would just be speculating, If you don't mind me doing that then I'll say that I think the excitation of the vacuum is the heart of the quantum uncertainty and maybe even the pilot wave. For instance you take the nucleus of an atom that polarizes the vacuum e-p pairs via its electric field. These e-p pairs should vibrate with a minimum thermal background, similar to the fact we cant cool anything to absolute zero because the vacuum itself has a temperature. It captures an electron in this e-p pair cloud that is only partly polarized and the electron becomes a non-unique particle with an uncertainty based on the electric field and the thermal noise of the vacuum.
I also think it is "possibly" related to radioactivity. An uneven distribution of electric field in the nucleus can lead to overly polarized vacuum via too much electric field, which may allow thermal vacuum annihilate the nucleus. This thermal noise of the vacuum is related to time. Less thermal noise is slower time, thermally deflate the baloon or shorten the plank length. Atomic clocks tick slower.
I also think it's related to quantum tunneling and Feynman diagrams where particles travel backwards in time. Wheelers delayed choice experiment ect.
I think large amounts of thermal noise in the vacuum are gravitationally repulsive (float away from gravity like a hot air baloon) so I think its possible the great voids in the vacuum may be repulsed from gravity and thermally energetic. These thermally excited voids may tick faster in time, compounded with gravity of galaxies slowing time, it may appear to make the galaxies rotate faster than normal on a galactic scale. This would be our dark energy/matter. Pushing the universe apart and making galaxies rotate faster.
(This is also speculation and may be odd to think, but we live on one of the largest voids in our universe. I was pondering that large thermal voids may possibly be an indication of advanced civilizations, with warp drive, that are pumping large amounts of energy into the vacuum.)
I think initially massive energy and accelerations and jerk of the particles in the creation of the universe pumped up the quantum vacuum possibly causing the rapid expansion. Now days it would be merging black holes possibly. I think the black holes slow, reducing their effective (relativistic mass) by sending out this energy into the quantum vacuum as space-time waves or vacuum waves.
I was pondering Podkletnov's gravity impulse generator experiments were also a mach effect, in that he was accelerating electrons in superconductors possibly inducing a mach effect and his gravitational wave appeared to be repulsive or energetic vacuum.
If they are inducing a mach effect in the dielectric in the EM drive cavity then I would possibly parallel that to inducing a jerk wave form in the dielectric such that it seems to asymmetrically pull on the vacuum in one direction. Not sure how it does that exactly in the EM drive cavity. I was trying to do it with a series of frequencies or sinusoidal displacements.
Kind regards, Dustin M.
Dustin:If you read through the papers I appended to this forum, you will find that we agree on the fact that the electron and positrons we see in atoms and in free space are
NOT unique particles. Instead they are just multiple snapshots of an unpaired electron or positron from the quantum vacuum that is temporarily elevated in energy due to the confluence of local E-fields an/or B-fields in the volume of interest.
Best, Paul M.
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#15
by
dustinthewind
on 14 Sep, 2019 20:58
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...
Best, Paul M.
Oh sorry, I see the papers now. Thanks.
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#16
by
aceshigh
on 17 Sep, 2019 00:13
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IMO, this is a very creative approach but perhaps overly ambitious, i.e., attempting interactions with the vacuum before gravity is mastered.
The very nature of the vacuum is probably in space-time itself. Gravity waves are space-time waves. Particles are probably constructed from the very existence of space-time itself, or the vacuum. Gravity is probably related to this in that the energy of space-time starts depleating of energy around matter. As the energy depletes time slows down, SpaceTime shrinks like a balloon, getting cold, and the very fabric contracts. Objects experience more energy on one side of the vacuum than the other when experiencing gravity. The very nature of the lorentz contraction is probably related to the local vacuum surrounding the object. early inflation of the universe was probably due to energy being lost to space-time inflating the vacuum like a thermally inflated baloon such as black holes lose energy of space-time now. Some of that really just my speculation but I think there's a relationship that will probably be shown to be true with time.
Dustinthewind:
You might consider Dr. White's Quantum Vacuum (Q-V) conjecture which makes an attempt at combining Woodward's Mach-Effect (M-E) with the Magneto-Hydro-Dynamics (MHD) of the Q-V when looking at how propellantless propulsion could work. The NASA/JSC Eagleworks (EW) Lab had good numerical calculation results when using this model in estimating the thrust levels observed in the EW Lab's copper frustum EMdrive test article with a polyethylene disc insert. I've appended several slides from that time period for your review.
Best, Paul M.
Hi Paul. Still in touch with Dr White?
How did he dealt with the strong criticism, IN A ROW, of Dr Lawrence Krauss (Meberbs?), Dr Zubrin and even Marc Millis (who IS a guy who to some degree pursuits "exotic" physics space drives?
I mean at Breakthrough Discuss 2018, 4:00:00 mark
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#17
by
Star-Drive
on 17 Sep, 2019 14:08
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IMO, this is a very creative approach but perhaps overly ambitious, i.e., attempting interactions with the vacuum before gravity is mastered.
The very nature of the vacuum is probably in space-time itself. Gravity waves are space-time waves. Particles are probably constructed from the very existence of space-time itself, or the vacuum. Gravity is probably related to this in that the energy of space-time starts depleating of energy around matter. As the energy depletes time slows down, SpaceTime shrinks like a balloon, getting cold, and the very fabric contracts. Objects experience more energy on one side of the vacuum than the other when experiencing gravity. The very nature of the lorentz contraction is probably related to the local vacuum surrounding the object. early inflation of the universe was probably due to energy being lost to space-time inflating the vacuum like a thermally inflated baloon such as black holes lose energy of space-time now. Some of that really just my speculation but I think there's a relationship that will probably be shown to be true with time.
Dustinthewind:
You might consider Dr. White's Quantum Vacuum (Q-V) conjecture which makes an attempt at combining Woodward's Mach-Effect (M-E) with the Magneto-Hydro-Dynamics (MHD) of the Q-V when looking at how propellantless propulsion could work. The NASA/JSC Eagleworks (EW) Lab had good numerical calculation results when using this model in estimating the thrust levels observed in the EW Lab's copper frustum EMdrive test article with a polyethylene disc insert. I've appended several slides from that time period for your review.
Best, Paul M.
Hi Paul. Still in touch with Dr White?
How did he dealt with the strong criticism, IN A ROW, of Dr Lawrence Krauss (Meberbs?), Dr Zubrin and even Marc Millis (who IS a guy who to some degree pursuits "exotic" physics space drives?
I mean at Breakthrough Discuss 2018, 4:00:00 mark
Aceshigh:I've not talked with Dr. White about these topics since leaving the NASA/JSC Eagleworks Lab, so I will have to point you to any public papers or presentations that Dr. White has published since the Breakthrough Discussion in April 2018 that you pointed to. From Sonny's public comments though, I think Dr. White is going to let his published experimental data speak to the merits of his arguments as they become available from his DoD security imposed "Fortress of Solitude".
Best, Paul M.
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#18
by
aceshigh
on 18 Sep, 2019 05:28
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yeah, thanks. I just think it must not be easy to get that sort of criticism in a public event from some heavyweights.
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#19
by
dustinthewind
on 18 Sep, 2019 21:09
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...
Best, Paul M.
Oh sorry, I see the papers now. Thanks.
Hi Paul, I haven't had a lot of time to digest them. Might take me a while. it's interesting how close it comes to predicting the electron Mass. My intuition was suggesting to me that the passage of time might have something to do with thermal energy per oscillator. If the thermal energy creates a pressurethen it seemed to me that maybe the energy per oscillator would drop as the density of the oscillators increases. This would give the slowing of time as you near large massive objects.
I was thinking that thermal energy tends to be repelled away from gravitational objects and so fills the voids between galaxies. Maybe time passes by faster in the voids? if that were the case then the voidz might be almost like white holes in a way that they would be a negative gravitational.
I want to say that thermal energy in the vacuum never really disappears and so the vacuum never is truly referenceless. That maybe velocity with respect to (w.r.t.) the vacuum might be absolute. That is some frame in which, a photon is emitted. Moving away w.r.t. some local frame at the speed of light and it's infinitely red-shifted, or toward - infinitely blue-shifted. I was trying to find papers on it that still allow for relativity effects. There appear to be some but I didn't get through them. Frame-dragging is another effect that reminds me of this. Part of the motivation to think like that is to solve the old twin, young twin paradox. some argue that it's just the one that accelerated that their time slows down but that still leaves acceleration being absolute. Acceleration is absolute then maybe velocity is. Like maybe if we move so that the CMB isn't dipole shifted any more then maybe our clock might actually speed up with respect to the universe on average. some of the papers argue that the tests on the absolute velocity of light didn't quite take into account relativistic effects and that they couldn't possibly measure an ether with such relativistic effects.
I think a parallel line of thought to this is that as you move around a large gravitational body, the CMB would be dipole shifted but this would rotate as you rotate around the body. If one were moving with velocity toward the gravitational body so as to counter this dipole shift that would give you a velocity frame. One of my questions is if you were moving towards that gravitational body would your clock tick faster than if you sat still with respect to the gravitational body. To continue that line of thought, at the event horizon of the black hole, that frame should be moving at the speed of light, so that light could not escape The event horizon. Being stationary with respect to that frame means that you are moving at the speed of light with respect to local space time and so a clock will stop.
I'm not completely sure of all this. Anyways I'll continue to mull over them.
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#20
by
Bob Woods
on 19 Sep, 2019 00:31
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From Sonny's public comments though, I think Dr. White is going to let his published experimental data speak to the merits of his arguments as they become available from his DoD security imposed "Fortress of Solitude".
Best, Paul M.
Well, THAT conjures up some interesting mental images...
Sonny-El?
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#21
by
dustinthewind
on 19 Sep, 2019 18:48
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I guess I was thinking for a set pressure in the vacuum if the density of the osculators changes for a set volume. For an idea gas.
V=constant, P=constant if n doubles then T becomes half. Assuming the vacuum is at some pressure equilibrium. So if energy per oscillator decreases, connecting that to time slowing near gravitational objects. Not sure if that makes complete sense. Interesting we again have the 2/3 rds as they did in the paper "A Discussion on Characteristics of the Quantum Vacuum" .
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Kinetic/eqpar.htmlInternal Energy for Ideal Gas
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#22
by
meberbs
on 19 Sep, 2019 18:55
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I guess I was thinking for a set pressure in the vacuum if the density of the osculators changes for a set volume. For an idea gas.
V=constant, P=constant if n doubles then T becomes half. Assuming the vacuum is at some pressure equilibrium. So if energy per oscillator decreases, connecting that to time slowing near gravitational objects. Not sure if that makes complete sense. Interesting we again have the 2/3 rds.
There is no 3/2 in the ideal gas equation, you may have gotten confused with other related equations like the equation for energy in the gas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas_lawAnyway, you again seem to be slamming random physics models together, and acting like this is somehow valid. This is not something that actually yields useful results.
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#23
by
dustinthewind
on 22 Sep, 2019 21:31
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I guess I was thinking for a set pressure in the vacuum if the density of the osculators changes for a set volume. For an idea gas.
V=constant, P=constant if n doubles then T becomes half. Assuming the vacuum is at some pressure equilibrium. So if energy per oscillator decreases, connecting that to time slowing near gravitational objects. Not sure if that makes complete sense. Interesting we again have the 2/3 rds.
There is no 3/2 in the ideal gas equation, you may have gotten confused with other related equations like the equation for energy in the gas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas_law
Anyway, you again seem to be slamming random physics models together, and acting like this is somehow valid. This is not something that actually yields useful results.
The thermal vacuum defining time I don't think is new concept. There is work out there on it. I'm not sure this reference defines the connection to relativity but in the end if they define time and space it should link relativity or gravity to quantum mechanics.
Entropic Dynamics: Quantum Mechanics from Entropy and Information Geometry
Ariel Caticha
Department of Physics, University at Albany–SUNY, Albany, NY 12222, USA
One must introduce the notion of an ‘instant’; one must show that
these instants are suitably ordered; and finally one must define a convenient
measure of the duration or interval between the successive instants. It turns out
that an arrow of time is generated automatically. Entropic time is intrinsically
directional.
...
3 Entropic time
...
— the notion of
time constructed below will reflect the inferential nature of entropic dynamics.
Such a construction we will call entropic time [9].
...
Second, in ED entropic time is
constructed so that time (duration) is defined by a clock that is provided by
the system itself. More precisely, time is measured by the fluctuations of free
particles
This one below seems to be connected to general relativity.
Entropic Dynamics of Quantum Scalar Fields in
Curved Spacetime
Selman Ipek, Mohammad Abedi, and Ariel Caticha
Physics Department, University at Albany-SUNY, Albany, NY 12222, USA
In the Entropic Dynamics framework quantum theory is derived as
an application of the method of maximum entropy. In previous work the
entropic dynamics of relativistic quantum scalar fields was formulated in
the Schr¨odinger functional representation in which the Lorentz symmetry
is not manifest. Here the formalism is extended to curved spacetimes.
We develop a manifestly covariant approach inspired by the Hamiltonian
methods of Dirac, Kuchaˇr, and Teitelboim. The key ingredient is the
adoption of a local notion of entropic time in which instants are defined
on curved three-dimensional surfaces and time evolution consists of the
accumulation of changes induced by local deformations of these surfaces
...
Another example concerns the meaning of covariance in a quantum theory.
The question is: what is it that satisfies the principle of relativity? Is it the ontic
fields or the epistemic state? The ED approach provides a definitive answer in
favor of the latter. It is the state of knowledge that is updated in a covariant
manner, not the fields themselves. We expect this kind of clarity to become
more important as we pursue an ED of gravity. And indeed, we conclude by
noting that there appears to be no serious impediment to a straightforward
extension of the ED of quantum fields in a prescribed background space-time
to a fully dynamical gravity along lines inspired by [33].
I would say that they are probably connected, what makes quantum mechanics what it is, radioactive decay, their perturbed cloud that defines the structure of the electron orbitals, gravity, and space time around large amounts of matter and the thermal nature of time.
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#24
by
meberbs
on 22 Sep, 2019 23:11
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I guess I was thinking for a set pressure in the vacuum if the density of the osculators changes for a set volume. For an idea gas.
V=constant, P=constant if n doubles then T becomes half. Assuming the vacuum is at some pressure equilibrium. So if energy per oscillator decreases, connecting that to time slowing near gravitational objects. Not sure if that makes complete sense. Interesting we again have the 2/3 rds.
There is no 3/2 in the ideal gas equation, you may have gotten confused with other related equations like the equation for energy in the gas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas_law
Anyway, you again seem to be slamming random physics models together, and acting like this is somehow valid. This is not something that actually yields useful results.
The thermal vacuum defining time I don't think is new concept. There is work out there on it. I'm not sure this reference defines the connection to relativity but in the end if they define time and space it should link relativity or gravity to quantum mechanics.
What in the world are you talking about? These statements are in no way related to what I just said. You don't even acknowledge that you got a well known equation that is easy to look up wrong.
I would say that they are probably connected, what makes quantum mechanics what it is, radioactive decay, their perturbed cloud that defines the structure of the electron orbitals, gravity, and space time around large amounts of matter and the thermal nature of time.
That sentence literally doesn't mean anything. Scientists have been looking for a "theory of everything" for a long time. Picking a few completely random things and calling them "connected" is not useful in any way. Electron orbitals are not significantly affected by gravity, the scales are simply different. The sources you quote don't even support the phrase "thermal nature of time" to have any meaning. (Entropy and thermal are different words and mean different things.)
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#25
by
dustinthewind
on 22 Sep, 2019 23:57
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I guess I was thinking for a set pressure in the vacuum if the density of the osculators changes for a set volume. For an idea gas.
V=constant, P=constant if n doubles then T becomes half. Assuming the vacuum is at some pressure equilibrium. So if energy per oscillator decreases, connecting that to time slowing near gravitational objects. Not sure if that makes complete sense. Interesting we again have the 2/3 rds.
There is no 3/2 in the ideal gas equation, you may have gotten confused with other related equations like the equation for energy in the gas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas_law
Anyway, you again seem to be slamming random physics models together, and acting like this is somehow valid. This is not something that actually yields useful results.
The thermal vacuum defining time I don't think is new concept. There is work out there on it. I'm not sure this reference defines the connection to relativity but in the end if they define time and space it should link relativity or gravity to quantum mechanics.
What in the world are you talking about? These statements are in no way related to what I just said. You don't even acknowledge that you got a well known equation that is easy to look up wrong.
I would say that they are probably connected, what makes quantum mechanics what it is, radioactive decay, their perturbed cloud that defines the structure of the electron orbitals, gravity, and space time around large amounts of matter and the thermal nature of time.
That sentence literally doesn't mean anything. Scientists have been looking for a "theory of everything" for a long time. Picking a few completely random things and calling them "connected" is not useful in any way. Electron orbitals are not significantly affected by gravity, the scales are simply different. The sources you quote don't even support the phrase "thermal nature of time" to have any meaning. (Entropy and thermal are different words and mean different things.)
Well I
don't didn't expect you to either.
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#26
by
meberbs
on 23 Sep, 2019 00:25
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Well I don't expect you to either.
What don't you expect me to do?
Meaningless posts like this don't add any value.
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#27
by
dustinthewind
on 24 Sep, 2019 03:32
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Well I don't expect you to either.
What don't you expect me to do?
Meaningless posts like this don't add any value.
I didn't expect you to approach it in a way that expressed that you liked the idea, or that it made sense to you. I kind of threw it at Star-Drive and those that are already exploring that field. Pointing out similarities in other papers.
The vacuum they say froth's or bubbles similar to a thermal object. There is a minimum temperature you can cool something to and I don't think you can cool it below that, in that the vacuum itself has a temperature. That activity of the vacuum seems to be the essence of time and quantum uncertainty. My guess is that in the beginning, a lot of energy was transferred to the vacuum, which caused its rapid expansion. Inflation by transference of energy. After the universe cooled that coupling/friction reduced and expansion slowed.
It was suggested earlier that understanding the vacuum should lead to better understanding of space time itself and gravity. If we can define space and time more precisely then understanding more precisely can assist in manipulating it. The fundamental nature of reality is quantum which reduces to classical so exploration of the quantum nature of time would seem fundamental.
In the paper Star-Drive linked:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48852.msg1992534#msg1992534* Dynamics of the Vacuum.pdf
They are considering how the positively charged nucleus polarizes a natural vacuum. That the vacuum is a medium that can be perturbed.
There is also unpredictability in locating a particle in its wave function and maybe this could be contributed to a wave function combined with a thermal contribution along with charge conservation.
You can also squeeze the vacuum. I don't know a lot about it but I think it has connotations of increasing the thermal activity per osculator increasing the passage of time - increasing the non-local speed of light possibly. Exciting the vacuum making it more observable also. Here is an example.
Superluminal squeezing propagation
In conclusion, we have experimentally demonstrated that it is possible to observe superluminal squeezed vacuum propagation. The largest measured advancement was 3 μs.
I was suggesting that the voids might have larger concentrations of this thermal energy.
Anyways there are lots of puzzle pieces that seem to fit together by looking at the vacuum as a natural vacuum that can carry thermal energy and be perturbed. Some of the papers I linked a few posts above
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48852.msg1995303#msg1995303went as far as to hint at the connection to time as a thermal aspect of the vacuum, making quantum calculations easier (don't know a lot about that myself though), and connections to general relativity. Just food for thought.
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#28
by
meberbs
on 24 Sep, 2019 04:29
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I didn't expect you to approach it in a way that expressed that you liked the idea, or that it made sense to you. I kind of threw it at Star-Drive and those that are already exploring that field. Pointing out similarities in other papers.
The idea doesn't make sense period. You are misusing terminology, and still haven't addressed that you got a basic equation wrong.
Most of the rest of your post here is little better than gibberish, with various untrue statements, and connecting unrelated concepts because they happen to have similar terminology. What actually matters in physics is if things have similar math.
The lowest possible temperature is 0 K, because from the definition of temperature, it doesn't make any sense to be below that. Nothing to do with a "vacuum temperature" which doesn't make sense. (Note: there is a such thing as negative temperature, and it doesn't mean what your intuition would tell you.)
You talk about understanding things better, but your posts do the opposite, they contribute to confusion and lack of understanding by your misuse of terminology, and refusal to admit when you made a mistake.
You can also squeeze the vacuum. I don't know a lot about it but I think it has connotations of increasing the thermal activity per osculator increasing the passage of time - increasing the non-local speed of light possibly. Exciting the vacuum making it more observable also. Here is an example.
But it is not really the vacuum that is squeezed, but the light waves (photons). They are just using a shortcut in their terminology. You are abusing this as usual to make incorrect connections and conclusions. (Also something seems backwards with some terminology on that page, because they talk about superluminal group velocity, but what they are describing and measuring seems to be phase velocity. There may be some unstated assumptions or definitions for the context, nothing there seems actually relevant to discuss here though.)
Anyways there are lots of puzzle pieces that seem to fit together by looking at the vacuum as a natural vacuum that can carry thermal energy and be perturbed. Some of the papers I linked a few posts above
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48852.msg1995303#msg1995303
went as far as to hint at the connection to time as a thermal aspect of the vacuum, making quantum calculations easier (don't know a lot about that myself though), and connections to general relativity. Just food for thought.
And you still don't acknowledge that thermal and entropic are different words with different meanings.
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#29
by
dustinthewind
on 27 Sep, 2019 07:04
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Here we have a preferred vacuum frame. A thermal vacuum. The origin of time is mentioned related to thermal. The early expansion of the universe. The Hubble Radius, The CMB, The increase rotation rate of galaxies, the origion of quantum mechanics from the vacuum and a variable speed of light with an early universe having a much faster speed of light.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Moffat_(physicist)
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1404.5567.pdf
Variable speed of light cosmology, primordial fluctuations and gravitational waves
J. W. Moffat
October 6, 2018
The homogeneous Lorentz group SO(3, 1) is broken down to the spatial rotation group O(3). The three
rotation generators Ji (i = 1, 2, 3) leave the vacuum invariant, Jivi = 0, while the Lorentz boost generators
Ki break the vacuum symmetry Kivi 6= 0. The spontaneous breaking of the Lorentz and diffeomorphism
symmetries produces massless Nambu-Goldstone modes and massive particle modes [30, 31]. The spontaneous breaking of Lorentz invariance and diffeomorphism invariance has selected a preferred frame and
direction of time.
...
We have formulated a VSL model in which the homogeneous Lorentz group SO(3, 1) is spontaneously broken
to the rotation group O(3) by the non-zero vacuum expectation value h0|ψµ|0i. This determines a preferred
time t in the cosmological model corresponding to the comoving time in an FLRW spacetime.
In contrast to the inflationary scenario, our VSL model prediction of the almost scale invariant, Gaussian
fluctuation spectra for matter and relic gravitational waves does not rely on determining the shape of a
potential and its derivatives. The model can relieve the fine-tuning that is inevitably a consequence of
inflationary models
...
Since the ordered phase in the spontaneous symmetry breaking of Lorentz invariance is at a much lower
entropy than the restored, disordered symmetry phase and due to the existence of a domain determined by
the direction of the vev, h0|ψµ|0i, a natural explanation is given for the cosmological arrow of time and the
origin of the second law of thermodynamics [11, 12, 37]. The ordered state of low entropy in the symmetry
broken phase with c ≫ c0, becomes a state of high entropy in the symmetry restored disordered phase
with c = c0. The spontaneous symmetry breaking of the gravitational vacuum leads to a manifold with the
structure O(3) × R, in which time appears as an absolute external time parameter. The vev h0|ψµ|0i points
in a chosen direction of time to break the symmetry of the vacuum creating an arrow of time.
Gravitational Entropy and the Second Law of Thermodynamics
by John W. Moffat
Abstract
The spontaneous violation of Lorentz and diffeomorphism invariance in a phase near the big bang lowers the entropy, allowing for an arrow of time and the second law of thermodynamics. The spontaneous symmetry breaking leads to O(3,1) → O(3) × R , where O(3) is the rotational symmetry of the Friedmann–Lemaître–Robertson–Walker spacetime. The Weyl curvature tensor Cμνρσ vanishes in the FLRW spacetime satisfying the Penrose zero Weyl curvature conjecture. The requirement of a measure of gravitational entropy is discussed. The vacuum expectation value 〈0|ψμ|0〉 ≠ 0 for a vector field ψμ acts as an order parameter and at the critical temperature Tc a phase transition occurs breaking the Lorentz symmetry spontaneously. During the ordered O(3) symmetry phase the entropy is vanishingly small and for T < Tc as the universe expands the anti-restored O(3,1) Lorentz symmetry leads to a disordered phase and a large increase in entropy creating the arrow of time. View Full-Text
https://search.proquest.com/openview/8b295b8925ec2606c6076123f33a1dbf/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=1796373
Tests and prospects of new physics at very high energy. Beyond the standard basic principles, and beyond conventional matter and space-time. On the possible origin of Quantum Mechanics.
Abstract. Recent results and announcements by Planck and BICEP2 have led to important controversies in the fields of Cosmology and Particle Physics. As new ideas and alternative approaches can since then more easily emerge, the link between the Mathematical
Physics aspects of theories and the interpretation of experimental results becomes more
direct. This evolution is also relevant for Particle Physics experiments at very high energy,
where the interpretation of data on the highest-energy cosmic rays remains a major theoretical and phenomenological challenge. Alternative particle physics and cosmology can
raise fundamental questions such as that of the structure of vacuum and space-time. In
particular, the simplified description of the physical vacuum contained in standard quantum field theory does not necessarily correspond to reality at a deeper level, and similarly
for the relativistic space-time based on four real variables. In a more general approach,
the definition itself of vacuum can be a difficult task. The spinorial space-time (SST) we
suggested in 1996-97 automatically incorporates a local privileged space direction (PSD)
for each comoving observer, possibly leading to a locally anisotropic vacuum structure.
As the existence of the PSD may have been confirmed by Planck, and a possible discovery of primordial B-modes in the polarization of the cosmic microwave background
radiation (CMB) may turn out to contain new evidence for the SST, we explore other
possible implications of this approach to space-time. The SST structure can naturally be
at the origin of Quantum Mechanics at distance scales larger than the fundamental one if
standard particles are dealt with as vacuum excitations. We also discuss possible implications of our lack of knowledge of the structure of vacuum, as well as related theoretical,
phenomenological and cosmological uncertainties. Pre-Big Bang scenarios and new ultimate constituents of matter (including superbradyons) are crucial open subjects, together
with vacuum structure and the interaction between vacuum and standard matter
Possible deformations of the particle kinematics were already discussed in [37, 65] and in subsequent
papers as a way to test Lorentz symmetry at very high energy.
To possibly account for Lorentz symmetry violation (LSV), and assuming the existence of a privileged local rest frame (the vacuum rest frame, VRF)
But as emphasized in [1], if CMB B-modes corresponding to a signature of the early Universe dynamics
are finally found, they can, together with the local privileged space direction (PSD) [12, 13] possibly
observed by Planck [4], provide an unprecedented evidence [14, 15] for the spinorial space-time (SST)
we introduced in 1996-97
https://arxiv.org/abs/1612.06367
Statistical hierarchy of varying speed of light cosmologies
Vincenzo Salzano1 and Mariusz P. D¸abrowski1, 2, 3
January 8, 2018
Variation of the speed of light is quite a debated issue in cosmology with some benefits, but also
with some controversial concerns. Many approaches to develop a consistent varying speed of light
(VSL) theory have been developed recently. Although a lot of theoretical debate has sprout out
about their feasibility and reliability, the most obvious and straightforward way to discriminate and
check if such theories are really workable has been missed out or not fully employed. What is meant
here is the comparison of these theories with observational data in a fully comprehensive way. In this
paper we try to address this point i.e., by using the most updated cosmological probes, we test three
different candidates for a VSL theory (Barrow & Magueijo, Avelino & Martins, and Moffat) signal.
We consider many different ans¨atze for both the functional form of c(z) (which cannot be fixed by
theoretical motivations) and for the dark energy dynamics, in order to have a clear global picture
from which we extract the results. We compare these results using a reliable statistical tool such as
the Bayesian Evidence. We find that the present cosmological data is perfectly compatible with any
of these VSL scenarios, but in one case (Moffat model) we have a higher Bayesian Evidence ratio in
favour of VSL than in the standard c = constant ΛCDM scenario. Moreover, in such a scenario, the
VSL signal can help to strengthen constraints on the spatial curvature (with indication toward an
open universe), to clarify some properties of dark energy (exclusion of a cosmological constant at 2σ
level) and is also falsifiable in the nearest future due to some peculiar issues which differentiate this
model from the standard model. Finally, we have applied some priors which come from cosmology
and, in particular, from information theory and gravitational thermodynamics. They put stronger
constraints on the models under consideration, though still in favour of two of the Moffat’s proposals
Varying constants driven baryogenesis
Katarzyna Leszczynska, Mariusz P. Dabrowski, Tomasz Denkiewicz
last revised 24 Mar 2019
We study the spontaneous baryogenesis scenario in the early universe for three different frameworks of varying constants theories. We replace the constants by dynamical scalar fields playing the
role of thermions. We first obtain the results for baryogenesis driven by the varying gravitational
constant, G, as in the previous literature, then challenge the problem for varying fine structure
constant α models as well as for varying speed of light c models. We show that in each of these
frameworks the current observational value of the baryon to entropy ratio, ηB ∼ 8.6 · 10−11, can
be obtained for large set of parameters of dynamical constants models as well as the decoupling
temperature, and the characteristic cut-off length scale.
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#30
by
RotoSequence
on 27 Sep, 2019 07:25
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Why is the CMB a preferred reference frame? As far as I know, it should be a sphere at the outer edge of the observable universe in all directions, should it not?
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#31
by
dustinthewind
on 27 Sep, 2019 07:41
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Why is the CMB a preferred reference frame? As far as I know, it should be a sphere at the outer edge of the observable universe in all directions, should it not?
If there is a local vacuum frame, then there might be many possible preferred frames depending on your location. (act like they flow into gravity wells) . I suspect the CMB dipole may shift depending on your location with respect to gravitational fields and velocity in your local vacuum frame. Gravity can also red/blue shift light. Warp drive might not induce a dipole shift in the CMB if it seems your are not moving with respect to the local vacuum.
An example might be residing in a gravitomagnetic effect (Lense-Thirring effect or frame dragging) where (non-locally) your local space time appears to rotate. Or locally it appears your stationary, but the universe appears to rotate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lense%E2%80%93Thirring_precession
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#32
by
meberbs
on 27 Sep, 2019 14:22
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The origin of time is mentioned related to thermal.
Nothing in anything you quoted states this.
I have already repeatedly explained to you that entropy does NOT equal thermal.
Your repeated misrepresentations on this show great disrespect for the scientists you are quoting, and that is not okay.
Why is the CMB a preferred reference frame? As far as I know, it should be a sphere at the outer edge of the observable universe in all directions, should it not?
If there is a local vacuum frame, then there might be many possible preferred frames depending on your location. (act like they flow into gravity wells) . I suspect the CMB dipole may shift depending on your location with respect to gravitational fields and velocity in your local vacuum frame. Gravity can also red/blue shift light. Warp drive might not induce a dipole shift in the CMB if it seems your are not moving with respect to the local vacuum.
An example might be residing in a gravitomagnetic effect (Lense-Thirring effect or frame dragging) where (non-locally) your local space time appears to rotate. Or locally it appears your stationary, but the universe appears to rotate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lense%E2%80%93Thirring_precession
You have the definition of preferred frame wrong. A preferred frame would be valid anywhere, not changing at every point. (Actually that is true of any frame, a frame encompasses the whole geometry of spacetime at all points by definition.) The special thing about a preferred frame is that it is an obvious reference frame that everyone can agree on because the laws of physics somehow are special with regards to that frame. The only thing we know of that is special about the CMB frame is that you feel a tiny amount of radiation pressure from the CMB slowing you down when you move relative to it. This isn't really special when it comes to the laws of physics, though if we ever discovered a meaningful preferred frame, it would probably have similar velocity to the CMB frame.
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#33
by
dustinthewind
on 28 Sep, 2019 18:52
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The origin of time is mentioned related to thermal.
Nothing in anything you quoted states this.
I have already repeatedly explained to you that entropy does NOT equal thermal.
Your repeated misrepresentations on this show great disrespect for the scientists you are quoting, and that is not okay.
Why is the CMB a preferred reference frame? As far as I know, it should be a sphere at the outer edge of the observable universe in all directions, should it not?
If there is a local vacuum frame, then there might be many possible preferred frames depending on your location. (act like they flow into gravity wells) . I suspect the CMB dipole may shift depending on your location with respect to gravitational fields and velocity in your local vacuum frame. Gravity can also red/blue shift light. Warp drive might not induce a dipole shift in the CMB if it seems your are not moving with respect to the local vacuum.
An example might be residing in a gravitomagnetic effect (Lense-Thirring effect or frame dragging) where (non-locally) your local space time appears to rotate. Or locally it appears your stationary, but the universe appears to rotate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lense%E2%80%93Thirring_precession
You have the definition of preferred frame wrong. A preferred frame would be valid anywhere, not changing at every point. (Actually that is true of any frame, a frame encompasses the whole geometry of spacetime at all points by definition.) The special thing about a preferred frame is that it is an obvious reference frame that everyone can agree on because the laws of physics somehow are special with regards to that frame. The only thing we know of that is special about the CMB frame is that you feel a tiny amount of radiation pressure from the CMB slowing you down when you move relative to it. This isn't really special when it comes to the laws of physics, though if we ever discovered a meaningful preferred frame, it would probably have similar velocity to the CMB frame.
This citation kind of touches on the subject. I would like to find something newer on it but haven't had the time. There is a lot of references though.
Gravity with a dynamical preferred frame
Ted Jacobson, David Mattingly
Physical Review D 64 (2), 024028, 2001
We study a generally covariant model in which local Lorentz invariance is broken by a dynamical unit timelike vector field u a—the “aether.” Such a model makes it possible to study the gravitational and cosmological consequences of preferred frame effects, such as “variable speed of light” or high frequency dispersion, while preserving a generally covariant metric theory of gravity. In this paper we restrict attention to an action for an effective theory of the aether which involves only the antisymmetrized derivative∇[a u b]. Without matter this theory is equivalent to a sector of the Einstein-Maxwell-charged dust system. The aether has two massless transverse excitations, and the solutions of the model include all vacuum solutions of general relativity (as well as other solutions). However, the aether generally develops gradient singularities which signal a breakdown of this effective theory. Including the symmetrized derivative in the action for the aether field may cure this problem.
Think of it this way, when gravity acts on light it Doppler shifts it, and this is actually the light traveling through a change of frame. The light doesn't locally change in velocity so instead it Doppler shifts. The closer you get to the gravitational object the faster the frame is moving. At an event horizon the frame would be moving at the speed of light. Any light escaping would go through frame changes that would infinitely redshift it. Or the local space-time is moving at the speed of light. There was a video I posted a while back where an expert was talking about how he arrived at the concept of space-time as flowing into a black hole himself. It's really an effective velocity.
Also with the lense-thirring effect light passing into rotating space would undergo Doppler shifts as well, or a change in frame.
Some one existing in a gravitational field would see their CMB as dipole shifted by their local gravitational field.
one might be able to think of time slowing down, as moving with respect to your local space-time. In fact 1/sqrt(1-(v/c)^2)=gamma is 1/sin(theta) where the tilt of the vector indicates your velocity with respect to the speed of light. if we use an exponential for theta we can make this an imaginary vector, perpendicular to regular space and make one for each dimension in space. This makes time an imaginary vector perpendicular to each dimension of space. The reason an object contracts is because it's contracted in one of those time dimensions. An example of this is satellites in space around Earth where gravitational field slows time but also their angular velocity slows time. The gravitational field is represented by a tilt in the local vacuum which indicates the vacuum has local velocity. The satellite does not have velocity, so the satellite is moving with respect to its local vacuum (indicated by its vertical arrow where as the space-time slope is tilted). This slows the time of the satellite. Now the satellite with angular velocity has a tilted vector with respect to local space-time which does not have an angular tilt or velocity. Therefore it's also moving in another time dimension perpendicular to the other dimension, which also slows it's time. This slows its time down in two time dimensions.
A ship with a warp drive bubble around it would have a gravitational field around it that counteracts the CMB dipole shift. In effect making its local vacuum appear as stationary with respect to it. It's clock would tick at a normal rate with respect to the rest of the universe.
I see your point about the entropy not being thermal but I believe they are pretty closely connected. I was taking it that time had to do with rate of local vacuum fluctuations or the energy per osculator within the vacuum which seemed to me to be thermal.
Since the ordered phase in the spontaneous symmetry breaking of Lorentz invariance is at a much lower
entropy than the restored, disordered symmetry phase and due to the existence of a domain determined by
the direction of the vev, h0|ψµ|0i, a natural explanation is given for the cosmological arrow of time and the
origin of the second law of thermodynamics [11, 12, 37].
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics
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#34
by
meberbs
on 28 Sep, 2019 19:28
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This citation kind of touches on the subject. I would like to find something newer on it but haven't had the time. There is a lot of references though.
Touches on what? This does nothing to support the nonsense you kept repeating about "thermal" being related to time.
Think of it this way, when gravity acts on light it Doppler shifts it, and this is actually the light traveling through a change of frame.
First of all, the gravitational redshift or blueshift of light that you talk about for the rest of your post is a standard GR effect, and not dependent on a variable speed of light theory like your quote discussed.
Second, you are still misusing "frame." If you insist on talking about GR, the term your should really be discussing is the metric. There is only one metric, and that describes the structure of spacetime. If you write down the metric in the form of a tensor, the exact elements of the metric will depend on the coordinates you choose (which includes effectively picking a velocity, or what would be considered a "frame" in special relativity.) Additionally, the metric tensor takes on different values at each point in spacetime even after you have chosen your set of coordinates. These differences between different locations are what cause gravitational frequency shifts of light.
However, this is all just standard GR, and nothing in what you are discussing is relevant to this thread, or to the links you have been posting.
one might be able to think of as time slowing down as moving with respect to your local space-time. A ship with a warp drive bubble around it would have a gravitational field around it that counteracts the CMB dipole shift. In effect making its local vacuum appear as stationary with respect to it. It's clock would tick at a normal rate with respect to the rest of the universe.
We have an Alcubierre drive thread if you want to discuss that (for some reason it is in Advanced concepts instead of New Physics), it is not on topic in this thread.
You have completely stopped talking about anything remotely relevant to this thread, as you have completely changed topics multiple times everytime something you said was pointed out as being wrong, without ever acknowledging your mistakes. There does not seem to be any point to any of your posts.
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#35
by
dustinthewind
on 30 Sep, 2019 22:13
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This citation kind of touches on the subject. I would like to find something newer on it but haven't had the time. There is a lot of references though.
Touches on what? This does nothing to support the nonsense you kept repeating about "thermal" being related to time.
Think of it this way, when gravity acts on light it Doppler shifts it, and this is actually the light traveling through a change of frame.
First of all, the gravitational redshift or blueshift of light that you talk about for the rest of your post is a standard GR effect, and not dependent on a variable speed of light theory like your quote discussed.
Second, you are still misusing "frame." If you insist on talking about GR, the term your should really be discussing is the metric. There is only one metric, and that describes the structure of spacetime. If you write down the metric in the form of a tensor, the exact elements of the metric will depend on the coordinates you choose (which includes effectively picking a velocity, or what would be considered a "frame" in special relativity.) Additionally, the metric tensor takes on different values at each point in spacetime even after you have chosen your set of coordinates. These differences between different locations are what cause gravitational frequency shifts of light.
However, this is all just standard GR, and nothing in what you are discussing is relevant to this thread, or to the links you have been posting.
one might be able to think of as time slowing down as moving with respect to your local space-time. A ship with a warp drive bubble around it would have a gravitational field around it that counteracts the CMB dipole shift. In effect making its local vacuum appear as stationary with respect to it. It's clock would tick at a normal rate with respect to the rest of the universe.
We have an Alcubierre drive thread if you want to discuss that (for some reason it is in Advanced concepts instead of New Physics), it is not on topic in this thread.
You have completely stopped talking about anything remotely relevant to this thread, as you have completely changed topics multiple times everytime something you said was pointed out as being wrong, without ever acknowledging your mistakes. There does not seem to be any point to any of your posts.
I am not so narrow-minded as to only be discussing the alcubierre warp drive. On the other hand it has connections to propellantless propulsion. the very nature of gravity and SpaceTime itself is what's necessary for propellantless propulsion. So there is going to be some subject crosstalk.
This paper looks to be an example of exactly what I'm talking about.
academia.edu
Gravity originates from variable energy density of quantum vacuum
Luigi Maxmilian Caligiuri, Amrit Sorli
American Journal of Modern Physics 3 (3), 118-128, 2014
The physical understanding of the real mechanism of gravity is one of the most important questions in Physics. As we have already shown in a previous paper, the rest and relativistic mass of an elementary particle or body can be considered as having their origin in the diminished energy density of a Quantum Vacuum, characterized by a granular structure quantized through a Planck metric. The presence of massive bodies, from the scale of elementary particles to that of stellar objects and black holes, then determines Quantum Vacuum energy density gradients. In this paper we have proposed a novel physical model in which gravity is generated by the pressure of Quantum Vacuum in the direction of its own higher to lower density due to the presence of material objects or particles. In this picture gravity is an immediate and not–propagating action–at–a–distance interaction, resulting from the Quantum Vacuum dynamics, in turn related to fundamental properties of space itself only, not requiring the existence of the hypothetical graviton. Furthermore, the possibility to consider this Quantum Vacuum as a Bose–Einstein like condensate allows us to recover the large–scale description of the Universe consistent with General Relativity, viewed as the long–wavelength geometro–hydrodynamic limit of the Quantum Vacuum dynamics. The proposed model is also able to give a very simple explanation of: the equivalence between inertial and gravitational mass, the origin and dynamical behavior of dark matter and dark energy, the physical meaning of singularity in black hole, as well as to overcome some of the main difficulties of the Higgs model. Finally this model of gravity can be used as a starting point for a novel interpretation of the recently published data of BICEP2 radio telescope about the presumed indirect observation of gravitational waves.
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#36
by
meberbs
on 30 Sep, 2019 23:04
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I am not so narrow-minded as to only be discussing the alcubierre warp drive. On the other hand it has connections to propellantless propulsion. the very nature of gravity and SpaceTime itself is what's necessary for propellantless propulsion. So there is going to be some subject crosstalk.
This paper looks to be an example of exactly what I'm talking about.
No, that paper does not appear to have any relevance to the thread. Just because it has the words "quantum vacuum" in it does not make it relevant. It therefore also does not justify your change of subject.
There are questions I could ask about what that paper actually shows and if its results are valid (the citation list is not promising, mostly just the authors citing themselves,) but again that paper, like everything else in the last few posts is not relevant to this thread.
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#37
by
dustinthewind
on 05 Oct, 2019 19:18
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I am not so narrow-minded as to only be discussing the alcubierre warp drive. On the other hand it has connections to propellantless propulsion. the very nature of gravity and SpaceTime itself is what's necessary for propellantless propulsion. So there is going to be some subject crosstalk.
This paper looks to be an example of exactly what I'm talking about.
No, that paper does not appear to have any relevance to the thread. Just because it has the words "quantum vacuum" in it does not make it relevant. It therefore also does not justify your change of subject.
There are questions I could ask about what that paper actually shows and if its results are valid (the citation list is not promising, mostly just the authors citing themselves,) but again that paper, like everything else in the last few posts is not relevant to this thread.
It has relevance because a quantum vacuum plasma thruster would require knowledge of the structure and mechanism of space-time. I understand the guy doesn't have very many references but it's the concept that matters. It's based on a lot of puzzle pieces that have been found that exist in the universe, and he's trying to piece it all together.
Because of this he won't be the only one that's going down that path. Here's another example of a paper discussing the quantum thermodynamic properties of gravity with lots of references.
Equipartition of energy in the horizon degrees of freedom and the emergence of gravity
T Padmanabhan
Modern Physics Letters A 25 (14), 1129-1136, 2010
It is possible to provide a physical interpretation for the field equations of gravity based on a thermodynamical perspective. The virtual degrees of freedom associated with the horizons, as perceived by the local Rindler observer, play a crucial role in this approach. In this context, the relation S = E/2T between the entropy (S), active gravitational mass (E) and temperature (T) — obtained previously in gr-qc/0308070 [CQG, 21, 4485 (2004)] — can be reinterpreted as the law of equipartition E = (1/2) nkBT where is the number (density) of microscopic horizon degrees of freedom in an area ΔA. Conversely, one can use the equipartition argument to provide a thermodynamic interpretation of gravity, even in the nonrelativistic limit. These results emphasize the intrinsic quantum nature of all gravitational phenomena and diminishes the distinction between thermal phenomena associated with local Rindler horizons and the usual thermodynamics of macroscopic bodies in non-inertial frames. Just like the original thermodynamic interpretation, these results also hold for a wide class of gravitational theories like the Lanczos–Lovelock models.
Here, a thermodynamic interpretation of gravity and the need for a local inertial frame.
Entropy density of spacetime and the Navier-Stokes fluid dynamics of null surfaces
T. Padmanabhan
(Submitted on 1 Dec 2010)
It has been known for several decades that Einstein's field equations, when projected onto a null surface, exhibits a structure very similar to non-relativistic Navier-Stokes equation. I show that this result arises quite naturally when gravitational dynamics is viewed as an emergent phenomenon. Extremising the spacetime entropy density associated with the null surfaces leads to a set of equations which, when viewed in the local inertial frame, becomes identical to the Navier-Stokes (NS) equation. This is in contrast with the usual description of Damour-Navier-Stokes (DNS) equation in a general coordinate system, in which there appears a Lie derivative rather than convective derivative. I discuss this difference, its importance and why it is more appropriate to view the equation in a local inertial frame. The viscous force on fluid, arising from the gradient of the viscous stress-tensor, involves the second derivatives of the metric and does not vanish in the local inertial frame while the viscous stress-tensor itself vanishes so that inertial observers detect no dissipation. We thus provide an entropy extremisation principle that leads to the DNS equation, which makes the hydrodynamical analogy with gravity completely natural and obvious. Several implications of these results are discussed.
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#38
by
meberbs
on 05 Oct, 2019 22:28
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I am not so narrow-minded as to only be discussing the alcubierre warp drive. On the other hand it has connections to propellantless propulsion. the very nature of gravity and SpaceTime itself is what's necessary for propellantless propulsion. So there is going to be some subject crosstalk.
This paper looks to be an example of exactly what I'm talking about.
No, that paper does not appear to have any relevance to the thread. Just because it has the words "quantum vacuum" in it does not make it relevant. It therefore also does not justify your change of subject.
There are questions I could ask about what that paper actually shows and if its results are valid (the citation list is not promising, mostly just the authors citing themselves,) but again that paper, like everything else in the last few posts is not relevant to this thread.
It has relevance because a quantum vacuum plasma thruster would require knowledge of the structure and mechanism of space-time. I understand the guy doesn't have very many references but it's the concept that matters. It's based on a lot of puzzle pieces that have been found that exist in the universe, and he's trying to piece it all together.
Because of this he won't be the only one that's going down that path. Here's another example of a paper discussing the quantum thermodynamic properties of gravity with lots of references.
Based on the definition for relevance you just provided, there are several million papers that should be posted to this thread. Allow me to go write a script to find all of them and post links and quotes from the abstracts. (Note: that would obviously get me banned, and I am not doing that, but you are effectively just doing that manually at a slow pace.)0
Alternatively, you could accept that the theory proposed in this thread is not based on quantum gravity, so random papers on quantum gravity are off topic, and your assertion that "knowledge of the structure and mechanism of spacetime" is needed, amounts to nothing but fancy words that are not true. (And even if the thread was on quantum gravity, not all quantum gravity papers would be relevant.)
Also, the most recent paper you provided is not "another example," but something completely different from the previous paper, yet still not relevant to this thread.
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#39
by
dustinthewind
on 06 Oct, 2019 05:58
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I am not so narrow-minded as to only be discussing the alcubierre warp drive. On the other hand it has connections to propellantless propulsion. the very nature of gravity and SpaceTime itself is what's necessary for propellantless propulsion. So there is going to be some subject crosstalk.
This paper looks to be an example of exactly what I'm talking about.
No, that paper does not appear to have any relevance to the thread. Just because it has the words "quantum vacuum" in it does not make it relevant. It therefore also does not justify your change of subject.
There are questions I could ask about what that paper actually shows and if its results are valid (the citation list is not promising, mostly just the authors citing themselves,) but again that paper, like everything else in the last few posts is not relevant to this thread.
It has relevance because a quantum vacuum plasma thruster would require knowledge of the structure and mechanism of space-time. I understand the guy doesn't have very many references but it's the concept that matters. It's based on a lot of puzzle pieces that have been found that exist in the universe, and he's trying to piece it all together.
Because of this he won't be the only one that's going down that path. Here's another example of a paper discussing the quantum thermodynamic properties of gravity with lots of references.
Based on the definition for relevance you just provided, there are several million papers that should be posted to this thread. Allow me to go write a script to find all of them and post links and quotes from the abstracts. (Note: that would obviously get me banned, and I am not doing that, but you are effectively just doing that manually at a slow pace.)0
Alternatively, you could accept that the theory proposed in this thread is not based on quantum gravity, so random papers on quantum gravity are off topic, and your assertion that "knowledge of the structure and mechanism of spacetime" is needed, amounts to nothing but fancy words that are not true. (And even if the thread was on quantum gravity, not all quantum gravity papers would be relevant.)
Also, the most recent paper you provided is not "another example," but something completely different from the previous paper, yet still not relevant to this thread.
I don't think it is worth arguing with you anymore because I think your just looking for an argument which leads to these stretched out discussions. Propellant-less propulsion has everything to do with the nature of space time.
This citation kind of touches on the subject. I would like to find something newer on it but haven't had the time. There is a lot of references though.
Touches on what? This does nothing to support the nonsense you kept repeating about "thermal" being related to time.
...
Equipartition of energy in the horizon degrees of freedom and the emergence of gravity
T Padmanabhan
Modern Physics Letters A 25 (14), 1129-1136, 2010
It is possible to provide a physical interpretation for the field equations of gravity based on a thermodynamical perspective. The virtual degrees of freedom associated with the horizons, as perceived by the local Rindler observer, play a crucial role in this approach. In this context, the relation S = E/2T between the entropy (S), active gravitational mass (E) and temperature (T) — obtained previously in gr-qc/0308070 [CQG, 21, 4485 (2004)] — can be reinterpreted as the law of equipartition E = (1/2) nkBT where is the number (density) of microscopic horizon degrees of freedom in an area ΔA. Conversely, one can use the equipartition argument to provide a thermodynamic interpretation of gravity, even in the nonrelativistic limit. These results emphasize the intrinsic quantum nature of all gravitational phenomena and diminishes the distinction between thermal phenomena associated with local Rindler horizons and the usual thermodynamics of macroscopic bodies in non-inertial frames. Just like the original thermodynamic interpretation, these results also hold for a wide class of gravitational theories like the Lanczos–Lovelock models.
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#40
by
meberbs
on 07 Oct, 2019 04:31
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I don't think it is worth arguing with you anymore because I think your just looking for an argument which leads to these stretched out discussions. Propellant-less propulsion has everything to do with the nature of space time.
I am not "looking for an argument," this statement from you is just your latest avoiding of responding to any of the content in my posts.
Spacetime is a concept in actual physics. Propellantless propulsion is something that contradicts a fundamental part of all physics theories. They have basically nothing to do with each other especially in this thread which is about a model of the quantum vacuum. The articles you have been posting in particular say nothing even close to related to this topic, and you have been posting them with no meaningful comment on what they say or why it would be relevant. And no, the latest one also does not answer the question I previously asked that you quoted.
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#41
by
RotoSequence
on 07 Oct, 2019 04:43
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I don't think it is worth arguing with you anymore because I think your just looking for an argument which leads to these stretched out discussions. Propellant-less propulsion has everything to do with the nature of space time.
I am not "looking for an argument," this statement from you is just your latest avoiding of responding to any of the content in my posts.
Spacetime is a concept in actual physics. Propellantless propulsion is something that contradicts a fundamental part of all physics theories. They have basically nothing to do with each other especially in this thread which is about a model of the quantum vacuum. The articles you have been posting in particular say nothing even close to related to this topic, and you have been posting them with no meaningful comment on what they say or why it would be relevant. And no, the latest one also does not answer the question I previously asked that you quoted.
I'd like to play the devil's advocate for a moment. We have no framework for separating the wheat from the chaff for physical relevance. If you have an idea what people should seek out in papers that might be of interest, it would be a great help to know what to look for.
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#42
by
meberbs
on 07 Oct, 2019 05:06
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I'd like to play the devil's advocate for a moment. We have no framework for separating the wheat from the chaff for physical relevance. If you have an idea what people should seek out in papers that might be of interest, it would be a great help to know what to look for.
This thread is on a specific topic, specifically White's dynamic vacuum model. Papers about that model would be on topic. Papers about the normal quantum vacuum would not be on topic in general, unless someone found something specific of interest and could explain how it relates to the model (or thruster idea) that is the topic for this thread. For example there is probably a paper out there on the casmir effect that would be helpful in explaining why under the normal understanding of the quantum vacuum devices like this simply wouldn't work.
Papers on general relativity, thermodynamics, quantum gravity, etc. simply would not say anything of relevance to this thread, and if someone thought they did, they should be able to explain exactly why. (quantum gravity is a topic that in particular would need to be handled with care, because there simply is no theory of quantum gravity that is generally accepted, in particular it is difficult to find ones that make testable predictions.)
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#43
by
dustinthewind
on 11 Oct, 2019 16:09
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With the idea that relativity - space-time, gravity, can be merged with a thermal quantum vacuum then I think it may be possible to engineer the vacuum, possibly by quantum vacuum friction. I think quantum vacuum friction is possibly related to merging black holes, and generation of gravitational waves. They mention the braking effect. One variable that might change the friction could be magnetic fields. I was suspecting that magnetic fields are induced currents in the vacuum. Maybe this changes local relative velocities with respect to the vacuum.
Quantum Vacuum Friction in highly magnetized neutron stars
Arnaud Dupays, Carlo Rizzo, Dimitar Bakalov, Giovanni F Bignami
EPL (Europhysics Letters) 82 (6), 69002, 2008
In this letter we calculate the energy loss of a highly magnetized neutron star due to Quantum Vacuum Friction (QVF). Taking into account one-loop corrections in the effective Heisenberg-Euler Lagrangian of the light-light interaction, we derive an analytic expression for QVF allowing us to take into account a magnetic field at the surface of the star as high as 10 11 T. In the case of magnetars, with magnetic fields above the QED critical field, we show that the QVF is the dominating energy loss process. This has important consequences, in particular for the inferred value of the magnetic field. This also indicates the need for independent measurements of magnetic field, energy loss rate, and the braking index in order to fully characterize magnetars.
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#44
by
dustinthewind
on 12 Oct, 2019 18:49
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Here they calculate the optimal trajectory to maximize the Unruh effect observation. You'll notice that they suggest to maximize the change in acceleration which is to maximize the jerk. This has a lot of similarities with respect to Mach effect possibly. Also with black holes they increase their drag on space-time with respect to their increasing velocity and acceleration, edit: when merging and emitting gravitational waves, throwing off energy into space time.
If you want unidirectional observation in only one direction, you want to maximize your jerk in one direction, and minimize it in the other direction. I think this is that waveform where it looks like you have minimized acceleration and velocity at one end and maximized velocity and acceleration at the other. is a fourier sum of frequencies increasing in frequency that are properly in or out of phase with each other.
On the Unruh effect, trajectories and information
Aida Ahmadzadegan, Achim Kempf
Classical and Quantum Gravity 35 (18), 184002, 2018
We calculate the trajectories which maximize the Unruh effect, mode by mode, when given a fixed energy budget for acceleration. We find that Unruh processes are most likely to occur, and therefore are potentially best observable, for certain trajectories whose acceleration is not uniform. In practice, the precise form of optimal trajectories depends on experimental bounds on how fast the acceleration can be changed. We also show that the Unruh spectra of arbitrarily accelerated observers contain the complete information to reconstruct the observers' trajectories
The Unruh effect
