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EM-3/Artemis 3 Orion Construction and Processing Updates
by
woog
on 29 Jul, 2019 19:11
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#1
by
woog
on 08 Oct, 2019 05:53
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#2
by
Steven Pietrobon
on 08 Oct, 2019 11:03
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#3
by
Olaf
on 23 Jan, 2020 11:21
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#4
by
Steven Pietrobon
on 24 Jan, 2020 07:20
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Graphic in video hides the true performance of Saturn V and SLS by saying they both have payloads "greater than 40 tons". For crewed versions, Saturn V had a TLI mass of 46.8 t [1] compared to SLS Block IB with 39.1 t [2].
[1] R. W. Orloff and D. M. Harland, "Apollo: The definitive sourcebook," Springer-Praxix Publishing, Chichester, UK, 2006.
[2] B. Donahue and S. Sigmon, "The Space Launch System capabilities with a new large upper stage," AIAA Space Conf. and Exhib., San Diego, CA, USA, Sep. 2013.
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#5
by
Steven Pietrobon
on 24 Jan, 2020 07:23
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Knowledge about how orbits work? Fail.
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#6
by
jadebenn
on 24 Jan, 2020 13:03
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Graphic in video hides the true performance of Saturn V and SLS by saying they both have payloads "greater than 40 tons". For crewed versions, Saturn V had a TLI mass of 46.8 t [1] compared to SLS Block IB with 39.1 t [2].
[1] R. W. Orloff and D. M. Harland, "Apollo: The definitive sourcebook," Springer-Praxix Publishing, Chichester, UK, 2006.
[2] B. Donahue and S. Sigmon, "The Space Launch System capabilities with a new large upper stage," AIAA Space Conf. and Exhib., San Diego, CA, USA, Sep. 2013.
I will say that the SLS Crewed Block 1B estimate as being "more than 40 tons" is a more up-to-date estimate than that 39 ton figure. All the SLS Block 1B payload capacity estimates NASA's released seem to have slightly increased since the EUS redesign.
It definitely is a bit of a sneaky way to disguise that Block 1B will only approach actual Saturn V figures at the end of its evolutionary path (BOLE + RS-25Es + performance optimizations), though.
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#7
by
woog
on 24 Jan, 2020 18:45
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Graphic in video hides the true performance of Saturn V and SLS by saying they both have payloads "greater than 40 tons". For crewed versions, Saturn V had a TLI mass of 46.8 t [1] compared to SLS Block IB with 39.1 t [2].
[1] R. W. Orloff and D. M. Harland, "Apollo: The definitive sourcebook," Springer-Praxix Publishing, Chichester, UK, 2006.
[2] B. Donahue and S. Sigmon, "The Space Launch System capabilities with a new large upper stage," AIAA Space Conf. and Exhib., San Diego, CA, USA, Sep. 2013.
number 1: this is just a short explainer video for the general public
number 2: this is an update thread, not a discussion thread
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#8
by
FutureSpaceTourist
on 29 Apr, 2020 07:18
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#9
by
Mammutti
on 04 Jun, 2020 21:12
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#10
by
hektor
on 26 Jun, 2020 17:36
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ESM-3 structure at the top.
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#11
by
ncb1397
on 20 Aug, 2020 03:02
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This panel came a long way in a couple months (see up thread)...
The first element machined for the Artemis III Orion crew module – a cone panel with openings for windows which will provide that spectacular view – was designed by Orion’s lead contractor, Lockheed Martin, and manufactured by AMRO Fabricating Corp., of South El Monte, California. The completed panel is on its way to NASA’s Michoud Assembly Facility near New Orleans, Louisiana, where engineers will weld it with other panels as part of Orion’s pressure vessel.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/orion-window-panel-complete-for-front-row-view-on-artemis-moon-mission
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#12
by
jacqmans
on 20 Aug, 2020 09:25
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Orion Window Panel Complete for Front-Row View on Artemis Moon Mission
As NASA's Orion spacecraft approaches the Moon on the Artemis III mission to put the first woman and next man on the lunar surface, the crew will get a glimpse through the spacecraft’s windows.
The first element machined for the Artemis III Orion crew module – a cone panel with openings for windows which will provide that spectacular view – was designed by Orion’s lead contractor, Lockheed Martin, and manufactured by AMRO Fabricating Corp., of South El Monte, California. The completed panel is on its way to NASA’s Michoud Assembly Facility near New Orleans, Louisiana, where engineers will weld it with other panels as part of Orion’s pressure vessel.
“It’s truly exciting to have the first piece of the Artemis III Orion spacecraft completed at AMRO that will enable American astronauts to build a sustainable presence on the lunar surface,” said Acting Orion Program Manager Howard Hu.
In addition to machining elements for Orion’s crew module, AMRO manufactures the panels for the core stage, launch vehicle stage adapter, and the Orion stage adapter for NASA’s Space Launch System (SLS) rocket that will send Orion to the Moon during Artemis missions.
Orion, SLS, and Exploration Ground Systems (EGS) programs are foundational elements of the Artemis program, beginning with Artemis I, the first integrated flight test of Orion and SLS next year. Artemis II will follow with the system’s first crewed mission, taking humans farther into space than ever before.
Human exploration of the Moon under the Artemis program offers a unique opportunity to test, refine, and perfect many of the technologies and complex operations that will be needed to land humans on Mars, perform their work on the surface and safely return them to Earth.
Together, Orion, SLS and EGS are using suppliers in all 50 states, Washington D.C., and Puerto Rico – almost half of which are small businesses. These suppliers are creating jobs, reinvigorating manufacturing, and promoting American innovation in our aerospace industrial base and beyond through their work on NASA’s exploration programs.
Image Credit: AMRO Fabricating Corp.
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#13
by
FutureSpaceTourist
on 25 Aug, 2020 21:51
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https://twitter.com/nasa/status/1298373341527580673 It’s arrived! 🤩
The first piece of @NASA_Orion’s pressure vessel for #Artemis III has arrived to #NASAMichoud, where it will be welded to the underlying structure. We are one step closer to landing the first woman and the next man on the Moon by 2024:
Edit to add:
First Piece of Artemis III Orion Delivered to NASA
The first piece of the Orion spacecraft’s pressure vessel for Artemis III – the mission that will land the first woman and next man on the Moon in 2024 – has arrived at NASA. The cone panel that will house the windows astronauts will use to view the Moon was designed by Orion’s lead contractor, Lockheed Martin, and manufactured by AMRO Fabricating Corp., of South El Monte, California. It arrived at NASA’s Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans on Aug. 21. In the coming months, the other six elements of the pressure vessel will arrive at Michoud where they will be welded together to build the underlying structure of Orion. The pressure vessel is Orion’s primary structure that holds the pressurized atmosphere astronauts will breathe and work in while in the vacuum of deep space. Orion, the Space Launch System, and Exploration Ground Systems programs are foundational elements of the Artemis program, beginning with Artemis I, the first integrated flight test of Orion and SLS next year. Artemis II will follow as the first crewed mission, taking humans farther into space than ever before.
https://blogs.nasa.gov/artemis/2020/08/25/first-piece-of-artemis-iii-orion-delivered-to-nasa/
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#14
by
jacqmans
on 26 Aug, 2020 14:12
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Artemis III Orion Cone Panel arrives at MAF
The first piece of the Orion spacecraft’s pressure vessel for Artemis III – the mission that will land the first woman and next man on the Moon in 2024 – has arrived at NASA. The cone panel that will house the windows astronauts will use to view the Moon was designed by Orion’s lead contractor, Lockheed Martin, and manufactured by AMRO Fabricating Corp., of South El Monte, California. It arrived at NASA’s Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans on Aug. 21. In the coming months, the other six elements of the pressure vessel will arrive at Michoud where they will be welded together to build the underlying structure of Orion. The pressure vessel is Orion’s primary structure that holds the pressurized atmosphere astronauts will breathe and work in while in the vacuum of deep space.
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#15
by
jacqmans
on 03 Dec, 2020 08:26
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Machining of the tunnel, aft bulkhead, and barrel for the Artemis III pressure vessel at Ingersoll Machine Tool, Inc. in Rockford, Illinois.
Photo: NASA / Radislav Sinyak
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#16
by
jacqmans
on 03 Dec, 2020 08:28
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Machining of the tunnel, aft bulkhead, and barrel for the Artemis III pressure vessel at Ingersoll Machine Tool, Inc. in Rockford, Illinois.
Photo: NASA / Radislav Sinyak
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#17
by
jacqmans
on 03 Dec, 2020 08:29
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Machining of the tunnel, aft bulkhead, and barrel for the Artemis III pressure vessel at Ingersoll Machine Tool, Inc. in Rockford, Illinois.
Photo: NASA / Radislav Sinyak
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#18
by
sdsds
on 06 Apr, 2021 09:17
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#19
by
FutureSpaceTourist
on 23 Aug, 2021 19:55
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#20
by
FutureSpaceTourist
on 10 Sep, 2021 20:30
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#21
by
Vahe231991
on 11 Sep, 2021 00:56
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Wow, construction of the Orion capsule for the Artemis III is starting to proceed faster than expected.
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#22
by
lykos
on 21 Sep, 2021 09:06
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Orion is (for now) not the problem!
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#23
by
eeergo
on 18 Oct, 2021 12:58
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Somehow
folks here have missed that the third Artemis CM, the one that purportedly will be carrying the first Moon landing crew in 50 years (not that I believe that), but at any rate will carry crew with certainty, has been delivered to KSC and announced on Friday:
https://twitter.com/NASA_Orion/status/1449024252867399681This makes THREE (3) BEO spacecraft sharing the grounds simultaneously at their launch site. When CxP and then Artemis were drafted out, this milestone seemed science fiction. Now it's not even noted here.
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#24
by
Vahe231991
on 10 Feb, 2022 02:50
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#25
by
Hog
on 10 Feb, 2022 20:44
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Somehow folks here have missed that the third Artemis CM, the one that purportedly will be carrying the first Moon landing crew in 50 years (not that I believe that), but at any rate will carry crew with certainty, has been delivered to KSC and announced on Friday:
This makes THREE (3) BEO spacecraft sharing the grounds simultaneously at their launch site. When CxP and then Artemis were drafted out, this milestone seemed science fiction. Now it's not even noted here.
Orion MPCV S/N-004 for Artemis-3, S/N-003 for Artemis-2 and S/N-002 for Artemis-1. There's big investment sitting at MAF.
xxxxxx
It's not Space X enough.
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#26
by
shintoo
on 15 Feb, 2022 23:31
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An important update on construction of the Orion service module for the Artemis III mission:
https://blogs.esa.int/orion/2022/01/26/2021-2022-overview-of-artemis-and-the-european-service-modules/
Great to see updates like this, even if missing detail. I remember a lack of updates on ESM2 progress for some time not long ago. Now, we at least have an idea on the statuses of ESM3
and ESM4.
Orion MPCV S/N-004 for Artemis-3, S/N-003 for Artemis-2 and S/N-002 for Artemis-1. There's big investment sitting at MAF.
xxxxxx
It's not Space X enough.
It will be interesting throughout the missions to see which pieces are the source of major delays, i.e. between CS, CM, ESM, EUS, etc. Other than the turnaround of Orion 1 flight components for Orion 2 affecting schedule, it seems that they are in good shape.
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#27
by
Starshipdown
on 18 Feb, 2022 19:30
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This is the third Crew Module (CM) built, which brings up the question of reuse. Is the intention still to reuse CMs or do they plan on building a few more before committing to that?
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#28
by
shintoo
on 19 Feb, 2022 01:07
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This is the third Crew Module (CM) built, which brings up the question of reuse. Is the intention still to reuse CMs or do they plan on building a few more before committing to that?
While that may have been the idea in days past, we likely won't see reused CMs before Artemis IX, if ever.Sep 10, 2021 article:
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/next-generation-of-orion-spacecraft-in-production-for-future-artemis-missionsThe agency ordered three Orion spacecraft in 2019 for Artemis missions III through V, and plans to order three additional Orion capsules in fiscal year 2022 for Artemis missions VI through VIII.
These Orion orders happen through the Orion Production and Operations Contract, which allows for up to 12 orders through 2030. After that, I suspect either a new production contract will be made, or if we're lucky, reuse.
https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-commits-to-long-term-artemis-missions-with-orion-production-contractEDIT: Just because there is a production contract supplying Artemis missions, doesn't mean that those Orions will necessarily be brand new.
Correcting this post as it seems evident now that the plan is to reuse Orions starting with Artemis VI:
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2022/06/orion-status-update/After returning the Artemis 3 crew to Earth, the current plan is to take the capsule, refurbish it, and fly it again on Artemis 6.
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#29
by
hektor
on 24 Feb, 2022 07:54
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#30
by
FutureSpaceTourist
on 19 Oct, 2022 00:10
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https://twitter.com/nasagroundsys/status/1582524153881509888Today, Oct. 18th, 2022, at approx. 5:30 p.m. EDT, @NASA's Super Guppy aircraft landed at @NASAKennedy carrying the Artemis III @NASA_Orion spacecraft heat shield that will protect astronauts on the historic mission returning humanity to the surface of the Moon. #Artemis
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#31
by
Vahe231991
on 22 Nov, 2022 03:49
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Since SpaceX's Starship Human Landing System will be used during all Artemis missions beginning with Artemis 3 to take crewmembers from the Orion module to the HLS, there could be photos waiting to be released that show engineers fabricating components for the compartment of the Artemis 3 Orion module allowing for astronauts to disembark the Orion spacecraft and enter the HLS lunar lander.
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#32
by
DanClemmensen
on 22 Nov, 2022 04:19
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Since SpaceX's Starship Human Landing System will be used during all Artemis missions beginning with Artemis 3 to take crewmembers from the Orion module to the HLS, there could be photos waiting to be released that show engineers fabricating components for the compartment of the Artemis 3 Orion module allowing for astronauts to disembark the Orion spacecraft and enter the HLS lunar lander.
Do you mean the NDS docking port? I don't think it's a separate compartment. It's not a separate compartment on Crew Dragon or Starliner.
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#33
by
russianhalo117
on 22 Nov, 2022 04:34
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Since SpaceX's Starship Human Landing System will be used during all Artemis missions beginning with Artemis 3 to take crewmembers from the Orion module to the HLS, there could be photos waiting to be released that show engineers fabricating components for the compartment of the Artemis 3 Orion module allowing for astronauts to disembark the Orion spacecraft and enter the HLS lunar lander.
Do you mean the NDS docking port? I don't think it's a separate compartment. It's not a separate compartment on Crew Dragon or Starliner.
Gateway DAC for HLS calls for an Orion docking tunnel extension either built as a pyrotechnically jettisoned extension ring or an ASTP docking module like extension module extracted after stage separation. The tunnel extension is only required for clearance reasons at cetain ports. Presently however it is not planned before the first use of Gateway. HLS might require docking system MMOD sheild cover on the lander like the MMOD shielding cover requirement for all vacant Gateway docking ports.
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#34
by
DanClemmensen
on 22 Nov, 2022 05:24
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Since SpaceX's Starship Human Landing System will be used during all Artemis missions beginning with Artemis 3 to take crewmembers from the Orion module to the HLS, there could be photos waiting to be released that show engineers fabricating components for the compartment of the Artemis 3 Orion module allowing for astronauts to disembark the Orion spacecraft and enter the HLS lunar lander.
Do you mean the NDS docking port? I don't think it's a separate compartment. It's not a separate compartment on Crew Dragon or Starliner.
Gateway DAC for HLS calls for an Orion docking tunnel extension either built as a pyrotechnically jettisoned extension ring or an ASTP docking module like extension module extracted after stage separation. The tunnel extension is only required for clearance reasons at cetain ports. Presently however it is not planned before the first use of Gateway. HLS might require docking system MMOD sheild cover on the lander like the MMOD shielding cover requirement for all vacant Gateway docking ports.
DAC==Deployable Aperture Cover?
ASTP == module used for Apollo-Soyuz?
MMOD == meteoroid and orbital debris?
But both Orion and HLS are supposed to have IDSS-compatable ports. If they cannot dock to each other without an adaptor, then the IDSS spec has failed in one of its most fundamental goals. If the Orion implementation is active-only, then at most the HLS port would need to implement both active and passive modes.
Will all ports used on all spacecraft need MMOD shields? I know Dragon 2 and Starliner have covers, but I thought those were added primarily for protection during EDL. Do the ISS ports have MMOD shields?
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#35
by
russianhalo117
on 22 Nov, 2022 06:17
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Since SpaceX's Starship Human Landing System will be used during all Artemis missions beginning with Artemis 3 to take crewmembers from the Orion module to the HLS, there could be photos waiting to be released that show engineers fabricating components for the compartment of the Artemis 3 Orion module allowing for astronauts to disembark the Orion spacecraft and enter the HLS lunar lander.
Do you mean the NDS docking port? I don't think it's a separate compartment. It's not a separate compartment on Crew Dragon or Starliner.
Gateway DAC for HLS calls for an Orion docking tunnel extension either built as a pyrotechnically jettisoned extension ring or an ASTP docking module like extension module extracted after stage separation. The tunnel extension is only required for clearance reasons at cetain ports. Presently however it is not planned before the first use of Gateway. HLS might require docking system MMOD sheild cover on the lander like the MMOD shielding cover requirement for all vacant Gateway docking ports.
DAC==Deployable Aperture Cover?
ASTP == module used for Apollo-Soyuz?
MMOD == meteoroid and orbital debris?
But both Orion and HLS are supposed to have IDSS-compatable ports. If they cannot dock to each other without an adaptor, then the IDSS spec has failed in one of its most fundamental goals. If the Orion implementation is active-only, then at most the HLS port would need to implement both active and passive modes.
Will all ports used on all spacecraft need MMOD shields? I know Dragon 2 and Starliner have covers, but I thought those were added primarily for protection during EDL. Do the ISS ports have MMOD shields?
Design analysis cycles
ASTP Docking Module (just a reference for similar method of its ride to orbit and a spacer like Mir's Stykovochnyy Otsek (SO) docking module (Rassvet being the converted copy)).
Micro Meteroid Orbital Debris.
The Orion tunnel extension/docking module like Mir's SO Module is only to structural clearance to mounted external hardware that might interfere with Orion docking to certain ports. Gateway is designed to have both active-passive, passive-passive (radial) and active-active (axial) IDSS ports of their respective space agencies. The axial ports on each module must function in two modes active and passive. Radial ports on modules are to be passive and the VV's and delivered modules are to be active but can be relocated for passive to passive CBM-like berthing using the Canadarm-3.These are the current IDSS docking systems of ISS MCB members: JAXA is using MHI built JAXA Docking System (JDS). ESA is using QineticQ built International Berthing and Docking Mechanisms (IBDM). NASA is using the upcoming version of NASA Docking System (NDS). Roscosmos would if ever involved use their newest version of APAS (drogue configuration debuted on Prichal and Nauka and the hybrid 4 petal soft capture system with drogue for Nauka SrK module). All Nauka and Prichal ports use the IDSS compliant and legacy APAS pass through umbilical connectors and Hard Capture System. VV's can use IDSS certified private docking systems or the system of their respective space agency. The ACBM ports on ISS have MMOD petals protecting the mating surface when a VV is not present.
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#36
by
Timber Micka
on 22 Nov, 2022 12:31
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#37
by
DanClemmensen
on 22 Nov, 2022 16:32
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#38
by
DanClemmensen
on 22 Nov, 2022 16:58
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Since SpaceX's Starship Human Landing System will be used during all Artemis missions beginning with Artemis 3 to take crewmembers from the Orion module to the HLS, there could be photos waiting to be released that show engineers fabricating components for the compartment of the Artemis 3 Orion module allowing for astronauts to disembark the Orion spacecraft and enter the HLS lunar lander.
Do you mean the NDS docking port? I don't think it's a separate compartment. It's not a separate compartment on Crew Dragon or Starliner.
Gateway DAC for HLS calls for an Orion docking tunnel extension either built as a pyrotechnically jettisoned extension ring or an ASTP docking module like extension module extracted after stage separation. The tunnel extension is only required for clearance reasons at cetain ports. Presently however it is not planned before the first use of Gateway. HLS might require docking system MMOD sheild cover on the lander like the MMOD shielding cover requirement for all vacant Gateway docking ports.
DAC==Deployable Aperture Cover?
ASTP == module used for Apollo-Soyuz?
MMOD == meteoroid and orbital debris?
But both Orion and HLS are supposed to have IDSS-compatable ports. If they cannot dock to each other without an adaptor, then the IDSS spec has failed in one of its most fundamental goals. If the Orion implementation is active-only, then at most the HLS port would need to implement both active and passive modes.
Will all ports used on all spacecraft need MMOD shields? I know Dragon 2 and Starliner have covers, but I thought those were added primarily for protection during EDL. Do the ISS ports have MMOD shields?
Design analysis cycles
ASTP Docking Module (just a reference for similar method of its ride to orbit and a spacer like Mir's Stykovochnyy Otsek (SO) docking module (Rassvet being the converted copy)).
Micro Meteroid Orbital Debris.
The Orion tunnel extension/docking module like Mir's SO Module is only to structural clearance to mounted external hardware that might interfere with Orion docking to certain ports. Gateway is designed to have both active-passive, passive-passive (radial) and active-active (axial) IDSS ports of their respective space agencies. The axial ports on each module must function in two modes active and passive. Radial ports on modules are to be passive and the VV's and delivered modules are to be active but can be relocated for passive to passive CBM-like berthing using the Canadarm-3.These are the current IDSS docking systems of ISS MCB members: JAXA is using MHI built JAXA Docking System (JDS). ESA is using QineticQ built International Berthing and Docking Mechanisms (IBDM). NASA is using the upcoming version of NASA Docking System (NDS). Roscosmos would if ever involved use their newest version of APAS (drogue configuration debuted on Prichal and Nauka and the hybrid 4 petal soft capture system with drogue for Nauka SrK module). All Nauka and Prichal ports use the IDSS compliant and legacy APAS pass through umbilical connectors and Hard Capture System. VV's can use IDSS certified private docking systems or the system of their respective space agency. The ACBM ports on ISS have MMOD petals protecting the mating surface when a VV is not present.
I assume Starship HLS will use an IDSS that it derives from the Crew Dragon. I think Crew Dragon is active-only. If Orion is active-only, then SpaceX will need to add passive mode capability. Do you know what the HLS Option A (and Option B) contracts stipulate for the dock?
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#39
by
russianhalo117
on 22 Nov, 2022 18:07
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Since SpaceX's Starship Human Landing System will be used during all Artemis missions beginning with Artemis 3 to take crewmembers from the Orion module to the HLS, there could be photos waiting to be released that show engineers fabricating components for the compartment of the Artemis 3 Orion module allowing for astronauts to disembark the Orion spacecraft and enter the HLS lunar lander.
Do you mean the NDS docking port? I don't think it's a separate compartment. It's not a separate compartment on Crew Dragon or Starliner.
Gateway DAC for HLS calls for an Orion docking tunnel extension either built as a pyrotechnically jettisoned extension ring or an ASTP docking module like extension module extracted after stage separation. The tunnel extension is only required for clearance reasons at cetain ports. Presently however it is not planned before the first use of Gateway. HLS might require docking system MMOD sheild cover on the lander like the MMOD shielding cover requirement for all vacant Gateway docking ports.
DAC==Deployable Aperture Cover?
ASTP == module used for Apollo-Soyuz?
MMOD == meteoroid and orbital debris?
But both Orion and HLS are supposed to have IDSS-compatable ports. If they cannot dock to each other without an adaptor, then the IDSS spec has failed in one of its most fundamental goals. If the Orion implementation is active-only, then at most the HLS port would need to implement both active and passive modes.
Will all ports used on all spacecraft need MMOD shields? I know Dragon 2 and Starliner have covers, but I thought those were added primarily for protection during EDL. Do the ISS ports have MMOD shields?
Design analysis cycles
ASTP Docking Module (just a reference for similar method of its ride to orbit and a spacer like Mir's Stykovochnyy Otsek (SO) docking module (Rassvet being the converted copy)).
Micro Meteroid Orbital Debris.
The Orion tunnel extension/docking module like Mir's SO Module is only to structural clearance to mounted external hardware that might interfere with Orion docking to certain ports. Gateway is designed to have both active-passive, passive-passive (radial) and active-active (axial) IDSS ports of their respective space agencies. The axial ports on each module must function in two modes active and passive. Radial ports on modules are to be passive and the VV's and delivered modules are to be active but can be relocated for passive to passive CBM-like berthing using the Canadarm-3.These are the current IDSS docking systems of ISS MCB members: JAXA is using MHI built JAXA Docking System (JDS). ESA is using QineticQ built International Berthing and Docking Mechanisms (IBDM). NASA is using the upcoming version of NASA Docking System (NDS). Roscosmos would if ever involved use their newest version of APAS (drogue configuration debuted on Prichal and Nauka and the hybrid 4 petal soft capture system with drogue for Nauka SrK module). All Nauka and Prichal ports use the IDSS compliant and legacy APAS pass through umbilical connectors and Hard Capture System. VV's can use IDSS certified private docking systems or the system of their respective space agency. The ACBM ports on ISS have MMOD petals protecting the mating surface when a VV is not present.
I assume Starship HLS will use an IDSS that it derives from the Crew Dragon. I think Crew Dragon is active-only. If Orion is active-only, then SpaceX will need to add passive mode capability. Do you know what the HLS Option A (and Option B) contracts stipulate for the dock?
It will use a heavier duty version with similar specifications to the upgraded APAS-89 version known as APAS-95 used by Shuttle on the ISS PMA's and the Mir SO Docking Module. The heavy duty specs and reasoning is explained in the IDSS documentation. All Gateway modules ports will use a heavy duty IDSS design.
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#40
by
DanClemmensen
on 22 Nov, 2022 18:36
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I assume Starship HLS will use an IDSS that it derives from the Crew Dragon. I think Crew Dragon is active-only. If Orion is active-only, then SpaceX will need to add passive mode capability. Do you know what the HLS Option A (and Option B) contracts stipulate for the dock?
It will use a heavier duty version with similar specifications to the upgraded APAS-89 version known as APAS-95 used by Shuttle on the ISS PMA's and the Mir SO Docking Module. The heavy duty specs and reasoning is explained in the IDSS documentation. All Gateway modules ports will use a heavy duty IDSS design.
I have read the IDSS spec and I knew about the heavier-duty variants. I know they are backward-compatible with the "light-duty" variants, so e.g. a Crew Dragon (light duty?) active port could in theory dock to the heavy-duty passive port on Gateway if it could get there. What I do not know is the contractual requirement for the Starship HLS port (Option A and Option B) and the actual implementation on the Artemis III Orion, especially with respect to active vs. passive vs. active-passive. Where can I find this information? I have not been very successful navigating the NASA site looking for specs and contracts.
Will the HLS port be on the nose? We have seen renders that imply this, but the torques would be quite large if HLS docks to Gateway with a nose port. A dorsal port in the HLS airlock compartment would impose less torque if HLS can physically dock to Gateway in this config. (I'm reasoning qualitatively here. Quantitative torque computations give me a headache.) This would be somewhat similar to the position of the airlock port on the Shuttle. This has ramifications for the Orion docking to HLS for Artemis III.
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#41
by
russianhalo117
on 22 Nov, 2022 21:54
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I assume Starship HLS will use an IDSS that it derives from the Crew Dragon. I think Crew Dragon is active-only. If Orion is active-only, then SpaceX will need to add passive mode capability. Do you know what the HLS Option A (and Option B) contracts stipulate for the dock?
It will use a heavier duty version with similar specifications to the upgraded APAS-89 version known as APAS-95 used by Shuttle on the ISS PMA's and the Mir SO Docking Module. The heavy duty specs and reasoning is explained in the IDSS documentation. All Gateway modules ports will use a heavy duty IDSS design.
I have read the IDSS spec and I knew about the heavier-duty variants. I know they are backward-compatible with the "light-duty" variants, so e.g. a Crew Dragon (light duty?) active port could in theory dock to the heavy-duty passive port on Gateway if it could get there. What I do not know is the contractual requirement for the Starship HLS port (Option A and Option B) and the actual implementation on the Artemis III Orion, especially with respect to active vs. passive vs. active-passive. Where can I find this information? I have not been very successful navigating the NASA site looking for specs and contracts.
Will the HLS port be on the nose? We have seen renders that imply this, but the torques would be quite large if HLS docks to Gateway with a nose port. A dorsal port in the HLS airlock compartment would impose less torque if HLS can physically dock to Gateway in this config. (I'm reasoning qualitatively here. Quantitative torque computations give me a headache.) This would be somewhat similar to the position of the airlock port on the Shuttle. This has ramifications for the Orion docking to HLS for Artemis III.
The heavier variant is to be used on HLS Starship for Gateway ops. HLS is proposed to dock to Gateway following its arrival in NRHO ahead of Artemis IV though the current plan is not noted. Orion will continue to use it lightweight mass optimised NDS port. Both Orion and HLS Starship will both launch with active docking systems for Gateway use however Artemis-III will see Orion function as the active vehicle and Starship function as the passive vehicle by leaving its soft capture system docking mechanism unpowered.
As for Cotract information you are likely looking at a FOIA request unless someone know specifically what to enter in a search field. However ITAR could play an obstacle.
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#42
by
Timber Micka
on 22 Nov, 2022 23:21
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#43
by
DanClemmensen
on 22 Nov, 2022 23:33
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I think there are renders showing Orion with the docking tunnel mod, which looks like a very short extension (minimal modification).
Just found one. Pic on the left on this Lockheed tweet. Right pic is old design
https://twitter.com/LMSpace/status/1575156643079274498
I think you are looking at the "soft capture system" (SCS) portion of the "active" IDSS in its extended position. It's a normal part of the dock, not a modification.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Docking_System_Standard
Ok sorry. That's a weird-looking feature.
(This is all from my reading and not from any inside information)
Yep, it's weird. It's also the heart of the IDSS and the feature that distinguishes it from earlier docking systems. It starts in the extended position and then contacts the passive system with pretty much zero force. It has a limited amount of freedom of motion on all six axes. After it latches to the passive system, the the SCS is then pulled back into its non-extended position in the active dock, bringing the two spacecraft together, after which the rest of the latches engage. The exact magic for this appears to be unspecified, but I'm guessing the actual actuators are augmented by the active vehicle's RCS for really big spacecraft.
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#44
by
russianhalo117
on 23 Nov, 2022 02:17
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I think there are renders showing Orion with the docking tunnel mod, which looks like a very short extension (minimal modification).
Just found one. Pic on the left on this Lockheed tweet. Right pic is old design
https://twitter.com/LMSpace/status/1575156643079274498
I think you are looking at the "soft capture system" (SCS) portion of the "active" IDSS in its extended position. It's a normal part of the dock, not a modification.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Docking_System_Standard
Ok sorry. That's a weird-looking feature.
(This is all from my reading and not from any inside information)
Yep, it's weird. It's also the heart of the IDSS and the feature that distinguishes it from earlier docking systems. It starts in the extended position and then contacts the passive system with pretty much zero force. It has a limited amount of freedom of motion on all six axes. After it latches to the passive system, the the SCS is then pulled back into its non-extended position in the active dock, bringing the two spacecraft together, after which the rest of the latches engage. The exact magic for this appears to be unspecified, but I'm guessing the actual actuators are augmented by the active vehicle's RCS for really big spacecraft.
See the Zarya PMA-1/Unity, PMA-2 propulsive soft capture video for that scenario (Jump to 5:30 and it will show it shortly after):
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#45
by
FutureSpaceTourist
on 08 Jul, 2023 04:46
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https://flic.kr/p/2oN51R1KSC-20230622-PH-CSH01_0021
The Orion spacecraft for the Artemis III mission is in view in the high bay of the Neil Armstrong Operations and Checkout Building at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida on June 22, 2023. The Orion spacecraft is being prepared for its launch atop the Space Launch System rocket on Artemis III, which will send astronauts, including the first woman and first person of color, on a mission to the surface of the Moon. Photo credit: NASA/Cory Huston
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#46
by
Vahe231991
on 08 Aug, 2023 22:32
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#47
by
catdlr
on 19 Apr, 2024 17:05
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#48
by
catdlr
on 19 Apr, 2024 17:10
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#49
by
catdlr
on 19 Apr, 2024 17:30
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#50
by
Proponent
on 26 Apr, 2024 16:20
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But it'd be hilarious to see Orion launch on SLS without an ICPS. We'd be on the SLS Block 0 configuration
I'm sure, though, that there would be a dummy ICPS to maintain mechanical compatibility with the launch tower, and probably weight and balance and aerodynamic qualities as well, so the vehicle would not look like Block 0.
folks here have missed that the third Artemis CM, the one that purportedly will be carrying the first Moon landing crew in 50 years (not that I believe that), but at any rate will carry crew with certainty, has been delivered to KSC and announced on Friday: