Firefly prepares for maiden flight with critical testing, new additions

[Chris Bergin]

FEATURE ARTICLE: -

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2019/06/firefly-prepares-maiden-flight-critical-testing/

- By Tyler Gray.

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1136638943951302656

[Daniel9]

Super read! Really caught me up with everything and really well put together!

[Galactic Penguin SST]

Well, I have nothing more to say other than "good luck" to them (should be better than the old Firefly days as the design is now slightly more conventional), but I still think they and every other new small launch vehicle start ups in/related to the US have a very steep uphill battle to fight against Rocket Lab and Virgin Orbit. I just can't see the demand growing enough for more than 2 start ups there surviving the battle in the long term.

[PM3]

The company is still eligible for further NASA contracts thanks to the CLPS program and also has agreements with Airbus and SSTL for multiple launches aboard Alpha rockets starting in 2020.

What is the source for this? So far I am only aware of one launch contract for a small experimental SSTL payload, plus some agreements for marketing the launcher.

[ncb1397]

Well, I have nothing more to say other than "good luck" to them (should be better than the old Firefly days as the design is now slightly more conventional), but I still think they and every other new small launch vehicle start ups in/related to the US have a very steep uphill battle to fight against Rocket Lab and Virgin Orbit. I just can't see the demand growing enough for more than 2 start ups there surviving the battle in the long term.

There are some things that simply can't fly on Rocket Lab's and Virgin Orbit's current launch vehicles but would fit Firefly Alpha. Just as an example, the Radarsat constellation that is coming up in the next month could be split up into 3 Alpha launches but none of the satellites would fit on either LauncherOne or Electron.

[TrevorMonty]

They seem to be staying on track for Dec19 test launch. Most LV companies would've starting pushing this date out by six mouths at this stage.

I think this size LV segment is one to look out for. Combined with SEP kick stage can deliver smallsats to GEO and Lunar orbit. Real threat to Vega and PSLV commercial business. Lot cheaper than LaucherOne and Electron per kg.

Electron launch price ( not $/kg) is half Alpha, will still be viable for multiple cubesat and one off smallsat launches. Especially with RLs excellent flight record and accurate orbital delivery.

[Tomness]

Well, I have nothing more to say other than "good luck" to them (should be better than the old Firefly days as the design is now slightly more conventional), but I still think they and every other new small launch vehicle start ups in/related to the US have a very steep uphill battle to fight against Rocket Lab and Virgin Orbit. I just can't see the demand growing enough for more than 2 start ups there surviving the battle in the long term.

No joke when Virgin Orbit sued the carp out of them and tried to bury them. Nothing but respect to dust their pants and hands and get back to work.

[envy887]

Well, I have nothing more to say other than "good luck" to them (should be better than the old Firefly days as the design is now slightly more conventional), but I still think they and every other new small launch vehicle start ups in/related to the US have a very steep uphill battle to fight against Rocket Lab and Virgin Orbit. I just can't see the demand growing enough for more than 2 start ups there surviving the battle in the long term.

There are some things that simply can't fly on Rocket Lab's and Virgin Orbit's current launch vehicles but would fit Firefly Alpha. Just as an example, the Radarsat constellation that is coming up in the next month could be split up into 3 Alpha launches but none of the satellites would fit on either LauncherOne or Electron.

Probably not the best example. Alpha (1000 kg to LEO) won't even be able to orbit the Radarsat satellites individually, never mind get them up to the proper SSO.

I know the sats individually weigh around 475 kg, but was wondering what the weight of the dispenser was?

The individual sats are 1430kg.  The dispenser is probably fairly heavy for its size, it tilts the satellites away from each other for deployment.

Alpha could probably launch individual Iridium NEXT satellites, but wouldn't be able to hit the same insertion orbit as F9, nor F9's average price of $6.7M per satellite to launch. Alpha is listed at $15M per launch.

[ncb1397]

Well, I have nothing more to say other than "good luck" to them (should be better than the old Firefly days as the design is now slightly more conventional), but I still think they and every other new small launch vehicle start ups in/related to the US have a very steep uphill battle to fight against Rocket Lab and Virgin Orbit. I just can't see the demand growing enough for more than 2 start ups there surviving the battle in the long term.

There are some things that simply can't fly on Rocket Lab's and Virgin Orbit's current launch vehicles but would fit Firefly Alpha. Just as an example, the Radarsat constellation that is coming up in the next month could be split up into 3 Alpha launches but none of the satellites would fit on either LauncherOne or Electron.

Probably not the best example. Alpha (1000 kg to LEO) won't even be able to orbit the Radarsat satellites individually, never mind get them up to the proper SSO.

I know the sats individually weigh around 475 kg, but was wondering what the weight of the dispenser was?

The individual sats are 1430kg.  The dispenser is probably fairly heavy for its size, it tilts the satellites away from each other for deployment.

Alpha could probably launch individual Iridium NEXT satellites, but wouldn't be able to hit the same insertion orbit as F9, nor F9's average price of $6.7M per satellite to launch. Alpha is listed at $15M per launch.

That is what I get for looking at wikipedia that says it is 1400 kg for the bunch. Perhaps some better examples:

Jason-3: 553 kg to LEO (2016)
Formosat-5: 475 kg to SSO (2017)
GRACE-FO 1 or 2: 600 kg to SSO (2018)

Alpha could probably launch individual Iridium NEXT satellites, but wouldn't be able to hit the same insertion orbit as F9, nor F9's average price of $6.7M per satellite to launch. Alpha is listed at $15M per launch.

An example of Alpha economics would be the Orbcomm constellation that was launched over 2 Falcon 9 flights at a list price of ~$120 million (they likely didn't pay list price given they signed to go on Falcon 1 initially). You could launch them 4 at a time on Alpha over 5 launches at a list price of $75 million. For Launcher one, it would be 2 at a time over 9 flights at a cost of $90 million and on electron it would be 18 flights at a list price of $108 million.

[PM3]

Alpha could probably launch individual Iridium NEXT satellites, but wouldn't be able to hit the same insertion orbit as F9, nor F9's average price of $6.7M per satellite to launch. Alpha is listed at $15M per launch.

960 kg to a polar 630 km orbit is way beyond Alpha's capabilities.

An example of Alpha economics would be the Orbcomm constellation that was launched over 2 Falcon 9 flights at a list price of ~$120 million (they likely didn't pay list price given they signed to go on Falcon 1 initially). You could launch them 4 at a time on Alpha over 5 launches at a list price of $75 million. For Launcher one, it would be 2 at a time over 9 flights at a cost of $90 million and on electron it would be 18 flights at a list price of $108 million.

172 kg each, launched to 630 km polar by the Falcon. I doubt that Alpha will carry more than two of them + a dispenser to that orbit.

[ncb1397]

Alpha could probably launch individual Iridium NEXT satellites, but wouldn't be able to hit the same insertion orbit as F9, nor F9's average price of $6.7M per satellite to launch. Alpha is listed at $15M per launch.

960 kg to a polar 630 km orbit is way beyond Alpha's capabilities.

This says 860 kg:
https://spacenews.com/spacex-completes-iridium-next-constellation/

Wikipedia's falcon 9 launch history says 9600 kg for 10 but that might be including the adapter (that wouldn't exist here).

[PM3]

960 kg to a polar 630 km orbit is way beyond Alpha's capabilities.

This says 860 kg:
https://spacenews.com/spacex-completes-iridium-next-constellation/

Still way beyond Alpha capabilities, as well as four Orbcomms (see above, edited post).

[ncb1397]

960 kg to a polar 630 km orbit is way beyond Alpha's capabilities.

This says 860 kg:
https://spacenews.com/spacex-completes-iridium-next-constellation/

Still way beyond Alpha capabilities, as well as four Orbcomms (see above, edited post).

polar? This says 47 degrees...

The fifth SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1, and tenth Falcon 9 overall, launched six Orbcomm data relay satellites into low earth orbit following a July 14, 2014 Cape Canaveral launch.  Liftoff from SLC 40 took place at 15:15 UTC.  The second stage performed a single direct insertion burn to place the Orbcomm OG 2 payload, consisting of an adapter with six 172 kg Orbcomm satellites and two 172 kg mass simulators, into a 614 x 743 km x 47 deg orbit.

http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/slr2014q3.html

As does this:

The second stage ignited its improved Merlin Vacuum engine at 2 minutes 35 seconds to begin a nearly eight minute burn to reach a roughly 620 x 660 km x 47 deg orbit.

http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/slr2015q4.html

edit: attached inclination vs altitude from Alpha PUG. Looks like > 800 kg to 47 deg ~600 km. 4 172 kg satellites would be 688 kg leaving 112 kg for the dispenser.

[Billium]

I don’t think I noticed this in the article, but they moved away from Areospike didn’t they?

[TrevorMonty]

I don’t think I noticed this in the article, but they moved away from Areospike didn’t they?

Flagged it long time ago and went with standard RP1 turbo engine, which was based heavily on one used on Virgin LauncherOne. That is what triggered lawsuit.
Had they stuck with aerospike lawsuit may not of happen, then again may still be trying to get aerospike to work.

 RP1 engine may not be best performing engine but it is low risk development path.

[Robotbeat]

The sub-500kg-LEO is becoming saturated. RocketLab is successful already, Astra is something, VirginOrbit nearly is, then you’ve got Vector, Relativity, Launcher, etc, etc.

None of these folk are targeting the 1 ton range, which IMHO makes more sense long term, or the Delta II class 4 ton (Firefly Beta).

In a lot of ways, these are the hole in the market that SpaceX left by not pursuing Falcon 1e and Falcon 5.

So I am actually impressed by the market segment Firefly is pursuing. It makes a heck of a lot more sense, IMHO.

[theinternetftw]

Initial concepts envisioned a partnership with Intuitive Machines and their Nova-C lander for a Beta launch in the early 2020s, though plans appear to have changed as Intuitive looks to fly on a SpaceX Falcon 9 no earlier than the summer of 2021.

I don't think plans have changed.  Intuitive was always going to do its own thing, and Firefly was always going to offer its version of the service with added efficiencies and risks.  Firefly got into CLPS by offering those differences.  It wouldn't make much sense for Intuitive (as a CLPS provider themselves) to turn around and offer the same thing.  Instead they wished Firefly luck and made offers designed to give themselves the best possible hand towards landing.  I'll be surprised if Firefly get a bid before they have a successful flight, but they will be available the second that happens.

[playadelmars]

Relativity Space is larger than Alpha with their Terran rocket, 1250 kg to LEO and 900 to SSO. That’s nearly 50% more Payload to SSO and for less money too, if they can close the business case there with their 3D printing technology.

[Lar]

In a lot of ways, these are the hole in the market that SpaceX left by not pursuing Falcon 1e and Falcon 5.

You have to wonder if Musk and Shotwell exited on purpose? Leave that fallow ground for others....  development costs are less and this space gives lots of room to play for budding rocket engineers. Musk isn't out to corner the market but rather to grow it, so if this garden gives lots of new companies with different tech approaches that's good, in his book. Maybe that's ascribing too much thinking ahead on their part, but no one ever lost a bet doing that.

[TrevorMonty]

Relativity Space is larger than Alpha with their Terran rocket, 1250 kg to LEO and 900 to SSO. That’s nearly 50% more Payload to SSO and for less money too, if they can close the business case there with their 3D printing technology.

Firefly should have 1-2year lead on Relativity. Enough to build customer base and hopefully reliable launch record. I also think their SEP 3rd stage is good point of difference. RL Curie kick stage is proving how important that last mile of delivery is to customers. I