Author Topic: For All Mankind (Read 227810 times)

Nibb31 · « **Reply #380 on:** 03/16/2021 04:56 pm »

If they land Pathfinder on Mars with wings, then I'm done with this show. Shuttle to the Moon is bad enough.

Even NTR requires massive amounts of hydrogen. Look at the Mars DRM 4, it still weighed 450 tons and didn't bring wings all the way to Mars and back.

Using NTR on a reusable space shuttle is ridiculous. After running once it would stay highly radioactive. I wouldn't want to be the ground crew who would have inspect and refurb that thing between flights.

At this point, they might as well just go full warp drive.

Oli · « **Reply #381 on:** 03/16/2021 09:45 pm »

I watch the show for the characters, everything else is mediocre to bad.

Robotbeat · « **Reply #382 on:** 03/17/2021 05:43 pm »

Quote from: Nibb31 on 03/16/2021 04:56 pm

If they land Pathfinder on Mars with wings, then I'm done with this show. Shuttle to the Moon is bad enough.

Even NTR requires massive amounts of hydrogen. Look at the Mars DRM 4, it still weighed 450 tons and didn't bring wings all the way to Mars and back.

Using NTR on a reusable space shuttle is ridiculous. After running once it would stay highly radioactive. I wouldn't want to be the ground crew who would have inspect and refurb that thing between flights.

At this point, they might as well just go full warp drive.

I don’t agree at all. It’s hard scifi at this point in a timeline where certain things have gotten a lot more funding and are potentially more advanced than on our timeline. Better materials would allow methane NTR with 600s Isp. Even CO2 for NTR could be significant. Zubrin, who is a serious technologist, published studies on a vehicle a lot like Pathfinder. And lots of propellant is not a problem when you have Sea Dragon and refuel in orbit (like they do in the show).

Winged entry is even fine as long as final landing is propulsive.

I disagree with some of the architecture choices, and I find the thing in the show where they call the Moon a quagmire to be accurate, but this is still within the realm of the physically possible and is in line with lots of real conceptual proposals. Even real-world architectures are not always ideal.

*Especially* Shuttle around the Moon. That is almost literally what Starship is, for goodness sake!

I have had my own nitpicks about the show, but every time someone comes up with these hyperbolic claims about how “unrealistic” the show is, I just have to sit back and laugh given what we’re seeing in Boca Chica right now. THIS is unrealistic storytelling LOL: https://twitter.com/dannysullivan/status/1367255086154489858?s=20

Blackstar · « **Reply #383 on:** 03/17/2021 06:19 pm »

Proof that no matter what the thread, it always has to turn into a discussion of Starship.

libra · « **Reply #384 on:** 03/17/2021 06:28 pm »

Or SpaceX.

Or Falcon 9

Or Dragon

Nibb31 · « **Reply #385 on:** 03/17/2021 07:59 pm »

Does Starship carry wings all the way to the moon and back?

sanman · « **Reply #386 on:** 03/17/2021 08:09 pm »

Quote from: Nibb31 on 03/17/2021 07:59 pm

Does Starship carry wings all the way to the moon and back?

Lunar Starship wouldn't - Dear Moon would.

If Dear Moon is a hit and spawns more sequels, then maybe regular Starship will rack up more lunar frequent flyer points.

Nibb31 · « **Reply #387 on:** 03/18/2021 05:56 am »

Starship doesn't have wings.

Robotbeat · « **Reply #388 on:** 03/18/2021 12:57 pm »

Quote from: Nibb31 on 03/18/2021 05:56 am

Starship doesn't have wings.

Sure, Jan.

Anyway, it shouldn’t be necessary to bring in a (near-)existence proof from the 2020s to show that a sort of Shuttle-like vehicle (with slightly stubbier wings-not-wings-but-brakerons-or-whatever-we’re-calling-them-now) could be used with refueling for sending crew and cargo to and from the lunar vicinity in an alternate timeline. It’s as reasonable as literally anything else in hard scifi that I can imagine. If this is your “deal breaker,” you’re not clever for it.

ncb1397 · « **Reply #389 on:** 03/18/2021 12:59 pm »

Quote from: Robotbeat on 03/18/2021 12:57 pm

Quote from: Nibb31 on 03/18/2021 05:56 am
Starship doesn't have wings.
Sure, Jan.

Anyway, it shouldn’t be necessary to bring in a (near-)existence proof from the 2020s to show that a sort of Shuttle-like vehicle (with slightly stubbier wings-not-wings-but-brakerons-or-whatever-we’re-calling-them-now) could be used with refueling for sending crew and cargo to and from the lunar vicinity in an alternate timeline. It’s as reasonable as literally anything else in hard scifi that I can imagine. If this is your “deal breaker,” you’re not clever for it.

Not only does it have wings, it also has canards/forewings.

Robotbeat · « **Reply #390 on:** 03/18/2021 01:10 pm »

Oh, and I should mention that if you’re doing really high speed aerocapture at Mars (because of higher transfer velocity to reduce transit time), you start running into g-load constraints. And that is addressed by a higher hypersonic L/D... which is addressed with larger wings. Which would help explain why Pathfinder might have even more exaggerated wings than Shuttle (plus serving as fuel tanks ala X-33).

This is defensible to me.

Don’t confuse years of sneering at the unwashed masses asking “why can’t we just send Shuttle to the Moon” with an argument that if the constraints (like lack of mass refueling capability on both ends) and small details (like TPS composition) were different, it could be a plausible thing to do in a fictional alternate timeline where we have cheap Sea Dragon fuel in LEO and lunar-derived fuel in the lunar vicinity.

It’s not as if everything we did with Shuttle in our timeline made perfect logical sense.

In the FAM timeline, they got stuck on the Moon as a self-licking ice cream cone instead of going to Mars, just like we got stuck in LEO instead of going beyond. It’s kind of a predictable outcome. They spent over a decade and probably tens of thousands of tons IMLEO (and maybe trillions of dollars... in both cases, enough for several Mars trips...) just to save some refueling propellant for the Mars journey. Being stuck in a Moon quagmire with questionable architecture-level return is one of the most realistic parts of the show. And funnily enough many people are arguing we do the same today.

Robotbeat · « **Reply #391 on:** 03/18/2021 01:31 pm »

I really wish we got a better look at the Soviet side’s alternative timeline architecture.

What is the N-3 like?

How typical they’re still using the Soyuz capsule, too. I kinda like that.

There’s only one constant in spaceflight in all timelines: Soyuz is still a workhorse LOL.

libra · « **Reply #392 on:** 03/18/2021 05:48 pm »

Well if Korolev had been told, just before his death, that Soyuz would still fly in 2021 or even 2025...

theebag · « **Reply #393 on:** 03/19/2021 12:42 pm »

Quote from: rocketman70 on 03/01/2021 05:36 pm

Quote from: woods170 on 02/22/2021 10:53 am
Did I just spot Dutch astronaut Wubbo Ockels, on the lunar surface, in season 2?

(Dutch flag on the suit and the moustache is there)

It's too bad they mispronounced his name. Don't they do any research on Dutch names? It's pronounced "voo-bo." the W has a V sound.

As a Dutchman I'm sorry to burst your bubble; the pronunciation is spot on. The W and U are phonetically very similar to English. To stay in the theme of season 2 episode 3; W as in War, U as in Gun.

Unfortunately his accent isn't really Dutch, that's more Scandinavian - which makes sense as the actor is Norwegian. At least its not the regular Danish or German snafu, got that going for them

.

libra · « **Reply #394 on:** 03/19/2021 01:07 pm »

Quote from: Robotbeat on 03/18/2021 01:31 pm

I really wish we got a better look at the Soviet side’s alternative timeline architecture.

What is the N-3 like?

How typical they’re still using the Soyuz capsule, too. I kinda like that.

There’s only one constant in spaceflight in all timelines: Soyuz is still a workhorse LOL.

N-3 may have RD-56 (Isayev) and RD-57 (Lyulka) hydrolox upper stages. There is also a small chance it could have RD-270s from Glushko (then, what an irony that would be, considering that Korolev did not died ITTL ...!)

The N-1 minus the Block A wasn't bad - the N-11 was no worse than a Proton, they could have mastered it.

Then put hydrolox stages on the N-11... and then rework the Block A with RD-270s or Kerolox RD-270 (RD-171?)

jstrotha0975 · « **Reply #395 on:** 03/19/2021 02:42 pm »

Just started watching season 2. Good show but the nuclear shuttles flying to the moon and Mars is cringeworthy. More on Seadragon would be nice.

old_geez · « **Reply #396 on:** 03/19/2021 06:52 pm »

The scenes where Kelly told her dad she wanted to go to Annapolis was really strong and well acted by all three of them.
You could visibly see the anger slowly rising on Ed’s face, and the resultant confusion from Kelly and Karen. It portrayed the deep sense of loss they have over Shane perfectly.
Well done to the actors and writers.

r8ix · « **Reply #397 on:** 03/19/2021 07:12 pm »

I was bothered by the physically impossible maneuvers for the T-38s in the dogfight scene last week, but actually more bothered by the ejection with one engine out.

old_geez · « **Reply #398 on:** 03/19/2021 07:17 pm »

The timeline has me a little perplexed. We are about 9-10 years after the end of Series One where Kelly had nor yet been born. Now she is there at age 16 ish.
Karen said the line “then you came along, and everything changed”.
Is she their biological child or adopted?

sanman · « **Reply #399 on:** 03/19/2021 07:25 pm »

Gee, I just realized - if Reagan won the presidency with his 1976 presidential run, then wouldn't he have had someone else as his running mate other than George Bush Sr? In which case, would Bush even get a shot at a presidential run, if he's not the VP? Oh well, we'll jus have to keep watching to find out.

What's happened to Reagan's biggest signature space initiative - the very famous SDI? Surely they can't do a period-based space drama, even an alternate history one, without mentioning that.