Author Topic: For All Mankind  (Read 227822 times)

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #320 on: 03/03/2021 08:05 pm »
https://twitter.com/forallmankind_/status/1367218514709282817

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Meet the future of space exploration. NASA's new pathfinder shuttle is changing space travel one nuclear engine at a time.

Watch #ForAllMankind  on the @AppleTV app with an Apple TV+ subscription.

Offline sanman

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #321 on: 03/05/2021 10:53 am »
How many episodes are there supposed to be in Season 2, anyway?

Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #322 on: 03/05/2021 10:56 am »
Ten, as in previous seasons.
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Offline tea monster

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #323 on: 03/06/2021 12:13 pm »
Why are they dragging landing gear, wings and other errata all the way out to luna? I don't see how the space shuttle would land on the moon without some kind of landing/ascent stage to further complicate things.

In a show that is supposed to stick pretty close to reality (even if an alternate reality) this annoys me.

Apart from that I've enjoyed season 2 so far.

Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #324 on: 03/06/2021 12:48 pm »
They teased us with the Sea Dragon at the end of Season 1 - yet in this series they have Shuttle Orbiters going from LEO out to Lunar Orbit, then back?! The Payload Bay doors are not open and there is no huge, attached propulsion module on the Orbiter?! They need to get some proper planned Mission Architectures portrayed on this show. If they wanted a big, reusable 'Shuttle' to go between Earth orbit to the Moon and back; it would be better to have a much upgraded, 'Super CSM' that had a big attached aerobraking shield that allowed it to brake into LEO over and over, where it could be refuelled by Shuttle Orbiters acting as Tankers to refuel the 'Super CSM' and bring the crews back to and fro from Earth.
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Offline sanman

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #325 on: 03/06/2021 11:45 pm »
Why are they dragging landing gear, wings and other errata all the way out to luna? I don't see how the space shuttle would land on the moon without some kind of landing/ascent stage to further complicate things.

In a show that is supposed to stick pretty close to reality (even if an alternate reality) this annoys me.

Apart from that I've enjoyed season 2 so far.

Maybe it was just so that Garrett Reisman could get a nifty cameo orbiting the Moon as a Shuttle pilot   ;D

The Shuttle does seem to be quintessentially 80s though, and maybe that's why they had to make it the new vehicle of choice for the ongoing lunar saga, which seems to be leaving its Apollo feel behind. They also seem to be setting it up as a vehicle for getting humanity to Mars.

In which case, will there be no private New Space companies in our alternate history timeline? Maybe we'll have to wait until Season 4 to find out.

Was there ever any nuclear-powered Shuttle-like concept on any drawing board at any point? It doesn't seem likely to reflect post-Apollo thinking, since winged vehicles wouldn't be seen as suitable for BEO missions.
I'm just wondering what they might have drawn inspiration from for this.

I'm also wondering if producer Ronald Moore has adequately planned out the technology roadmap for the multi-season story arc that he'd proclaimed from the very beginning.
« Last Edit: 03/06/2021 11:51 pm by sanman »

Offline yg1968

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #326 on: 03/07/2021 12:12 am »
They mentioned the Sea Dragon a couple of times. So they are using both the Shuttle and an uncrewed Sea Dragon.

https://for-all-mankind.fandom.com/wiki/Sea_Dragon
« Last Edit: 03/07/2021 12:15 am by yg1968 »

Offline Oersted

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #327 on: 03/10/2021 07:33 am »

Offline Skylon

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #328 on: 03/10/2021 01:27 pm »
Randomly saw this pic from the series.

http://www.collectspace.com/images/news-021921e-lg.jpg

Is it my imagination, or does the payload in the shuttle docked with Skylab look like its intended to be an expanded version of the shuttle EDO kit?

Offline libra

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #329 on: 03/10/2021 03:19 pm »
Quote
Meet the future of space exploration. NASA's new pathfinder shuttle is changing space travel one nuclear engine at a time.

Watch #ForAllMankind  on the @AppleTV app with an Apple TV+ subscription.

Maybe that's the explanation... that Shuttle that superfically looks like the one we know, maybe it has some kind of NERVA-SSME hybrid? with such a high specific impulse, only a small tank of LH2 in the "payload bay" can push it toward the Moon...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsed_nuclear_thermal_rocket

An hybrid of TRIGA (1958, Ted Taylor, Los Alamos) and ROVER / NERVA (1960's, Los Alamos too)

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist2.php (scroll down to Pulsed Solid-core NTR)

Quote
With a basic NERVA having a specific impulse of about 800 seconds, a pulsed version would have instead 4,460 to 13,880 seconds!

See ? it could be done !

Online Blackstar

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #330 on: 03/10/2021 04:20 pm »
Randomly saw this pic from the series.

http://www.collectspace.com/images/news-021921e-lg.jpg

Is it my imagination, or does the payload in the shuttle docked with Skylab look like its intended to be an expanded version of the shuttle EDO kit?

There's a line in a later episode that they refuel the shuttles at Skylab before sending them to the Moon. (I've seen all 10 episodes. This is a minor plot point, and there is very little discussion about using the shuttles for Earth-Moon transportation.)

Offline ncb1397

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #331 on: 03/10/2021 05:24 pm »

Was there ever any nuclear-powered Shuttle-like concept on any drawing board at any point? It doesn't seem likely to reflect post-Apollo thinking, since winged vehicles wouldn't be seen as suitable for BEO missions.


You should see Lockheed Martin's CEV bid....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_Exploration_Vehicle#/media/File:CEV_Lockheed_Martin.jpg

Offline ncb1397

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #332 on: 03/10/2021 05:25 pm »

Maybe that's the explanation... that Shuttle that superfically looks like the one we know, maybe it has some kind of NERVA-SSME hybrid? with such a high specific impulse, only a small tank of LH2 in the "payload bay" can push it toward the Moon...


That isn't the explanation. Pathfinder hadn't launched when the first Shuttle near/around the moon were shown (only personally have seen up to episode #2).
« Last Edit: 03/10/2021 05:29 pm by ncb1397 »

Offline libra

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #333 on: 03/10/2021 05:38 pm »
Nah, I mean, the shuttle seen in the season 2 early episodes...

Online Blackstar

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #334 on: 03/10/2021 09:22 pm »
Was there ever any nuclear-powered Shuttle-like concept on any drawing board at any point? It doesn't seem likely to reflect post-Apollo thinking, since winged vehicles wouldn't be seen as suitable for BEO missions.

No. You don't want to bring a hot reactor back to Earth.

Post-Apollo plans considered an Earth-Moon infrastructure that could have included a nuclear-powered tug.

FAM does not use those post-Apollo infrastructure concepts. Instead, it is based upon using shuttles refueled in LEO to perform that function. They go to the Moon and rendezvous with a reusable Lunar Surface Access Module (LSAM) that carries people and some cargo to and from the Moon. Major cargo is delivered by Sea Dragon flights.

https://www.wired.com/2012/04/integrated-program-plan-maximum-rate-traffic-model-1970/
« Last Edit: 04/13/2021 01:03 pm by Blackstar »

Offline sanman

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #335 on: 03/11/2021 05:31 am »
FAM does not use those post-Apollo infrastructure concepts. Instead, it is based upon using shuttles refueled in LEO to perform that function. They go to the Moon and rendezvous with a reusable Lunar Surface Access Module (LSAM) that carries people and some cargo to and from the Moon. Major cargo is delivered by Sea Dragon flights.

But I thought that this "Pathfinder" is a newer-generation Shuttle equipped with nuclear propulsion, which can travel to the Moon or even Mars.

This seems to be their handwaving solution to advance the show's storyplot.

I'm not sure which kind of Shuttle they showed Garrett Reisman on. Was it the older Shuttle or this newer Pathfinder type?

Because the shots they used suggested that a traditional Space Shuttle had been sent into a parking orbit around the Moon, to pick up astronaut Molly Cobb.
And yet we know that in real life, the US Space Shuttle is not radiation-shielded for BEO travel, and would not be able to hit Earth's atmosphere at lunar return velocity.

Ah well, we're now departing farther from realism.




Online Blackstar

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #336 on: 03/11/2021 12:09 pm »
I'm not sure which kind of Shuttle they showed Garrett Reisman on. Was it the older Shuttle or this newer Pathfinder type?

Because the shots they used suggested that a traditional Space Shuttle had been sent into a parking orbit around the Moon, to pick up astronaut Molly Cobb.
And yet we know that in real life, the US Space Shuttle is not radiation-shielded for BEO travel, and would not be able to hit Earth's atmosphere at lunar return velocity.


The Pathfinder shuttle does not show up until the late episodes. It is the "regular" shuttles that are used for Earth-Moon transport. And the Apollo was not radiation-shielded either, so that's not an issue for using the shuttles in this role.

Offline LM13

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #337 on: 03/11/2021 07:39 pm »
Was there ever any nuclear-powered Shuttle-like concept on any drawing board at any point? It doesn't seem likely to reflect post-Apollo thinking, since winged vehicles wouldn't be seen as suitable for BEO missions.

No. You don't want to bring a hot reactor back to Earth.

Post-Apollo plans considered an Earth-Moon infrastructure that could have included a nuclear-powered tug.

FAM does not use those post-Apollo infrastructure concepts. Instead, it is based upon using shuttles refueled in LEO to perform that function. They go to the Moon and rendezvous with a reusable Lunar Surface Access Module (LSAM) that carries people and some cargo to and from the Moon. Major cargo is delivered by Sea Dragon flights.

For what it's worth, my headcanon has been that Sea Dragon is used for bulk cargo/things you're not too concerned with losing, like propellant, and Shuttle itself is used for humans and expensive equipment.  So Sea Dragon launches great big propellant tanks from which the Shuttles refuel for lunar operations. 

Offline su27k

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #338 on: 03/12/2021 02:03 am »
A missed opportunity that they didn't get to show the Space Transportation System in all its planned glory.

Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #339 on: 03/12/2021 02:18 am »
Shuttles with Liquid Flyback Boosters - not solids - would have been a nice touch.
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