-
The concept of electric propulsion of space probes by Bandito8888 on 26 Apr, 2019 14:35
-
The concept presents a device that may allow to create a driving force (thrust) without fuel, using electric current, based on relativistic physics.
A few years ago, it was loud about the EmDrive device, which supposedly also produces propelling power using electricity, but my concept was created independently of that device and approaches the subject in a different way.
Thus, theoretically: Imagine 2 enormous electromagnets spaced a few light-minutes apart. Initially, electricity flows in them and attracts. After destroying one of them, the second one will still be attracted for a few minutes. If the distance between them is smaller, then this force will last shorter. Of course, "a few light minutes" are just theoretical considerations.
And now more practical: Suppose we have two large coils spaced apart by 3 [m]. Coils are switched on and off at the right moment. The coil creates a magnetic field when current flows through it. The direction of this field depends on the current direction. The coils are switched on and off in the correct order as shown in the figure below.
The activated coil interacts with the fading magnetic field of the switched off coil. (The magnetic field expires at the speed of light - about 300,000,000 [m / s] in a vacuum). The upper coil pushes away from the fading magnetic field of the bottom coil. The lower coil is pulled by the fading field from the upper coil.
1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-1- ... sequence of turning the coils on and off.
Estimating of the approximate frequency of device operation:
Distance between coils: 3 [m]. Thus, in a vacuum, the signal from one coil to the other flows during 1 / 100,000,000 [ s]. - which gives about 100 [MHz] (or more precisely 25 [MHz]).
By reducing the distance between the coils, the frequency will increase: e.g. when the distance is 1 [m], this frequency is 3 times more: 300 [MHz] (75 [MHz]).
Microwave transmitters, working as described coils (something like GSM or Wi-Fi transmitters), would allow to conduct experimental research.
The phase shift between the signals of the transmitters is π / 2.
For an experiment, it’s possible to create a device like this:
Instead of one of the transmitters, we could insert an electromagnetic screen that reflects the waves. However, then the experiment will not say anything, because such a prototype will emit electromagnetic waves in one direction.
For the experiment, it's better when the device is symmetrical to eliminate the effect of electromagnetic emission in one direction.
The possible driving force may be minimal, but maybe it will be enough to rotate the device suspended on a long thin line.
After conducting experimental tests, perhaps the device could be used to drive or rotate space probes, powered by e.g. solar battery.
-
#1 by meberbs on 26 Apr, 2019 16:42
-
Instead of one of the transmitters, we could insert an electromagnetic screen that reflects the waves. However, then the experiment will not say anything, because such a prototype will emit electromagnetic waves in one direction.
And you almost caught the problem with your design yourself.
For the experiment, it's better when the device is symmetrical to eliminate the effect of electromagnetic emission in one direction.
Even in the case where both sides are an antenna, asymmetric radiation (photons emitted more in one direction than the other) will occur because to generate a net force, you need to have different timings of when you apply current to each coil, breaking the symmetry.
I have lost count how many times someone has posted an idea equivalent to yours on this site. The concept as a whole is equivalent to the idea of phased array antennas to generate asymmetric radiation, which are well known and commonly used. No one considers the force generated by them because it is so tiny, and if you wanted photon propulsion, a laser has much better directivity and is therefore more efficient.After conducting experimental tests, perhaps the device could be used to drive or rotate space probes, powered by e.g. solar battery.
No, photon thrusters are generally not useful unless you have an antimatter power source. Also, you can use gyros to rotate a spacecraft at no fuel cost. The only time you absolutely need to use fuel for rotation is if the spacecraft experiences torques from external sources which tend to add in one direction over time. (This can happen due to effects related to spacecraft shape such as gravity gradient torques.) -
#2 by Bandito8888 on 26 Apr, 2019 19:29
-
to generate asymmetric radiation
It is not about the idea of generating asymmetric radiation. The whole device can be locked in a Faraday cage.
It's about an experiment, a concept that assumes that we can push away from an expiring magnetic field - with unknown reaction force. -
#3 by meberbs on 26 Apr, 2019 20:10
-
You have described a device that is known to generate asymmetric radiation. Place it in a Faraday cage, glue it to the floor of the cage, and it would do nothing. (Just have some complicated interactions with the walls, where everything cancels out.)to generate asymmetric radiation
It is not about the idea of generating asymmetric radiation. The whole device can be locked in a Faraday cage.It's about an experiment, a concept that assumes that we can push away from an expiring magnetic field - with unknown reaction force.
There is nothing "unknown" about the forces involved. The calculations of electrodynamic forces are well known. You have done nothing other than describe the forces experienced when 2-element a phased array antenna emits asymmetric radiation. -
#4 by Bandito8888 on 27 Apr, 2019 09:01
-
Thank you for your opinion
-
#5 by meberbs on 27 Apr, 2019 22:45
-
Thank you for your opinion
Strange, I didn't share any opinions in this thread to this point, just facts.
Here is an example of an opinion:
In my opinion, trying to dismiss facts by calling them "opinions" is rude, even if you add window dressing like "thank you" which just seems insincere. This however is significantly less rude then the responses of some other people who have posted similar non-working propellantless propulsion concepts when the flaws in their concepts were pointed out. -
#6 by Bob Shaw on 27 Apr, 2019 23:07
-
Please can we stop this?