Commercial Crew - Discussion Thread 2

[rokan2003]

Elon still follows him. It's right there when you click on Elon's Twitter profile and then click on 'following'

(Corrected a typo)

Yes, but if you follow Elon then under every one of the accounts in that list it will say “Followed by Elon Musk”. Under Jim’s account the message I get is “Followed by no one you are following”. Meaning Elon no longer follows him?

You can see who someone is following on Twitter by clicking on the person's profile and then on 'following'. Elon follows 81 accounts, and Bridenstine appears in this list, so I believe he's still following him. Not sure why what you're describing is happening.

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[thirtyone]

Okay, again, general reply here - everyone keeps on focusing on SpaceX here because that's the apparent context of this tweet, but there are two commercial crew partners. Boeing asked for almost twice as much as SpaceX, and they are equally delayed. If there is someone you'd want to blame first in commercial crew, maybe it's Boeing.

Now, if we're worried about project focus here - remember, SpaceX is not a small company anymore. There are different divisions. There are thousands of employees. From what I've heard commercial crew is very much run separately from other parts of the company (certainly launch vehicle) and just because they're publicly working on Starship does not mean that they are somehow allocating fewer people to commercial crew. Based on NASA press releases and SpaceX retweets it sounds like they're actively doing work on commercial crew right now.

I mean, Boeing got a new contract for the MQ25 drone a year ago - does that mean they're somehow not focusing manpower on Starliner because they're busy with some lucrative defense contract? SLS is actually a better analogy here, because that's also another program that's supposed to bring humans into space, and I could say hey, Boeing, I'm glad you're making all this progress on getting people to space with your fancy new SLS, but commercial crew was due two years ago. Of course, that gets weird, because SLS is also a terribly late NASA contract and all...

Anyway, again, probably just a political tweet - worded carefully enough it sounds like it's bad for SpaceX, but also not really. You probably which congressman this was for.

[M.E.T.]

Elon still follows him. It's right there when you click on Elon's Twitter profile and then click on 'following'

(Corrected a typo)

Yes, but if you follow Elon then under every one of the accounts in that list it will say “Followed by Elon Musk”. Under Jim’s account the message I get is “Followed by no one you are following”. Meaning Elon no longer follows him?

You can see who someone is following on Twitter by clicking on the person's profile and then on 'following'. Elon follows 81 accounts, and Bridenstine appears in this list, so I believe he's still following him. Not sure why what you're describing is happening.

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I know that. That is the path I followed. He follows 81 accounts. Bridenstine’s is one of them. Go one step further and click on any of those 81 accounts and it will have a tagline showing which accounts that you follow are also followers of that account. For any of the other 80 accounts that tagline displays that Elon follows that account. Except in the case of Bridenstine, where it does not. Try it and you will see.

Maybe when you unfollow someone they still appear in your followed list for a while, but the tagline below is updated immediately?

[tater]

Elon still follows him. It's right there when you click on Elon's Twitter profile and then click on 'following'

(Corrected a typo)

Yes, but if you follow Elon then under every one of the accounts in that list it will say “Followed by Elon Musk”. Under Jim’s account the message I get is “Followed by no one you are following”. Meaning Elon no longer follows him?

You can see who someone is following on Twitter by clicking on the person's profile and then on 'following'. Elon follows 81 accounts, and Bridenstine appears in this list, so I believe he's still following him. Not sure why what you're describing is happening.

Sent from my BBF100-6 using Tapatalk

I just checked, and I see NASA, but not Bridenstine on that list of 81.

[rokan2003]

Elon still follows him. It's right there when you click on Elon's Twitter profile and then click on 'following'

(Corrected a typo)

Yes, but if you follow Elon then under every one of the accounts in that list it will say “Followed by Elon Musk”. Under Jim’s account the message I get is “Followed by no one you are following”. Meaning Elon no longer follows him?

You can see who someone is following on Twitter by clicking on the person's profile and then on 'following'. Elon follows 81 accounts, and Bridenstine appears in this list, so I believe he's still following him. Not sure why what you're describing is happening.

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I just checked, and I see NASA, but not Bridenstine on that list of 81.

You're correct -- was there 5 min ago, but not on mine anymore either. I stand corrected.

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[thirtyone]

Friendly reminder that Congress cut commercial crew funding by more than 50% for the first 5 years!  ($500M became $230M, $800M became $400M etc.) Meanwhile, SLS/Orion requests of $3-4B got $100M's added by Congress.  Not all schedule slips should be created equal.

Actually curious about the exact numbers. I recall the original funding being something like up to 2 billion for SpaceX, and 4 billion for Boeing. Has that been reduced? Or is the yearly funding different because they all ended up being late on their milestones and got paid less for it?

[M.E.T.]

Elon still follows him. It's right there when you click on Elon's Twitter profile and then click on 'following'

(Corrected a typo)

Yes, but if you follow Elon then under every one of the accounts in that list it will say “Followed by Elon Musk”. Under Jim’s account the message I get is “Followed by no one you are following”. Meaning Elon no longer follows him?

You can see who someone is following on Twitter by clicking on the person's profile and then on 'following'. Elon follows 81 accounts, and Bridenstine appears in this list, so I believe he's still following him. Not sure why what you're describing is happening.

Sent from my BBF100-6 using Tapatalk

I just checked, and I see NASA, but not Bridenstine on that list of 81.

I still see him there but under his name it says “not followed by anyone you are following”. Since I follow Elon it implies Elon no longer follows him. I’m guessing the 81 is yet to update to 80, so his name still appears there even though he has been unfollowed.

[akgunkel]

Guys, can we remember for a minute that Jim Bridenstine is a real human being who has been regularly grilled/roasted by Congress, the press, the President, the Russians and whoever else since he started his job because the USA doesn't have an operational crew launch capability. I read his tweet more as "Sure starship is awesome, I just wish they could finally get crew to ISS so all these jerks will stop busting my balls."  His tweet rubbed me wrong too and seemed unfair/undiplomatic, but it's an understandable sentiment from where he sits.

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[AC in NC]

My statement on @SpaceX's announcement tomorrow:
“I am looking forward to the SpaceX announcement tomorrow. In the meantime, Commercial Crew is years behind schedule. NASA expects to see the same level of enthusiasm focused on the investments of the American taxpayer. It’s time to deliver.”

Some thoughts (some no-doubt already said various ways but some not yet covered):

(1)  Intent notwithstanding, this statement is objectively horrible.  It's horrible on the level of standing up at your daughter's engagement party and whatabouting her on that abortion she got in high school.

(2)  It would be surprising if this were a professionally crafted statement.  It should've been run-by professionals.  If this is a result of doing that, someone needs better professionals.

(3)  If these words are something Bridenstein does not agree with, he should have threatened to resign.  They are ridiculous.

(4)  50% funding through the contracted goal date pretty much eliminates any concept of "behind schedule".  You breached the contract right out of the gate so ST*U.

(5)  Enthusiasm, unless a poorly chosen word for SpaceX's execution diligence w.r.t. CCP, is an organic outgrowth of the way your frame your investments.  If there's no (or less than desired) enthusiasm for American Taxpayer's investments, that's 100% on NASA Jim.  Sorry but what SpaceX is doing in Boca is like watching the top-team in Premier League Soccer and watching NASA's other investments is more like watching wheelchair soccer (admirable though it may be).

(6)  But it really does feel more like Enthusiasm is a poorly chosen word for something about SpaceX.  See (2) above.

(7)  This is something like what the statement should have been:

“I am looking forward to the SpaceX announcement tomorrow.  NASA is excited being partners with private companies furthering the goal of making human endeavours in space more accessible. Together we can move expeditiously toward return to domestic crewed spaceflight and a permanent presence at the moon and beyond.”

How hard was that, Jim?  I'm a software engineer not a PR professional.

[Rocket Science]

Guys, can we remember for a minute that Jim Bridenstine is a real human being who has been regularly grilled/roasted by Congress, the press, the President, the Russians and whoever else since he started his job because the USA doesn't have an operational crew launch capability. I read his tweet more as "Sure starship is awesome, I just wish they could finally get crew to ISS so all these jerks will stop busting my balls."  His tweet rubbed me wrong too and seemed unfair/undiplomatic, but it's an understandable sentiment from where he sits.

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Remember he was "one of them"...

[Lemurion]

Apart from the generally classless phrasing of the statement it’s also telling that SpaceX is further ahead on commercial crew than Boeing but only SpaceX was tagged in the tweet. If Bridenstine was aiming it at all space contractors, he should have tagged them.

SpaceX has at least sent a Crew Dragon test article to the ISS.

[butters]

"Enthusiasm" is the key word of the tweet. While Bridenstine seems to be scolding SpaceX like the frustrated parent of an unruly child, what really has him upset is that the public is much more enthusiastic about Starship than Commercial Crew or Artemis.

[ncb1397]

Friendly reminder that Congress cut commercial crew funding by more than 50% for the first 5 years!  ($500M became $230M, $800M became $400M etc.) Meanwhile, SLS/Orion requests of $3-4B got $100M's added by Congress.  Not all schedule slips should be created equal.

https://twitter.com/Lori_Garver/status/1178001517753835521

Lori is wrong on that...

edit: previous totals didn't include FY 2018...now do

[Lemurion]

"Enthusiasm" is the key word of the tweet. While Bridenstine seems to be scolding SpaceX like the frustrated parent of an unruly child, what really has him upset is that the public is much more enthusiastic about Starship than Commercial Crew or Artemis.

If that’s the case he’s got a tough slog ahead of him. Commercial Crew is basically replicating 1960’s space capsules without the excitement of going to the Moon. Starship is recreating yesterday’s dreams in 50 meters of stainless steel. Of course people are going to be more enthusiastic  about the more exciting option. And that’s even ignoring Starship’s balls to the wall pace compared to NASA’s history of bureaucratic slowdowns.

[A_M_Swallow]

Friendly reminder that Congress cut commercial crew funding by more than 50% for the first 5 years!  ($500M became $230M, $800M became $400M etc.) Meanwhile, SLS/Orion requests of $3-4B got $100M's added by Congress.  Not all schedule slips should be created equal.

https://twitter.com/Lori_Garver/status/1178001517753835521

Lori is wrong on that...

She is thinking of FY2012
Request 850 / 2 = 425 got 392

[ncb1397]

Friendly reminder that Congress cut commercial crew funding by more than 50% for the first 5 years!  ($500M became $230M, $800M became $400M etc.) Meanwhile, SLS/Orion requests of $3-4B got $100M's added by Congress.  Not all schedule slips should be created equal.

https://twitter.com/Lori_Garver/status/1178001517753835521

Lori is wrong on that...

She is thinking of FY2012
Request 850 / 2 = 425 got 392

Her error is in extrapolating <50% funding for 2 years to 5 years.

[Khadgars]

Apart from the generally classless phrasing of the statement it’s also telling that SpaceX is further ahead on commercial crew than Boeing but only SpaceX was tagged in the tweet. If Bridenstine was aiming it at all space contractors, he should have tagged them.

SpaceX has at least sent a Crew Dragon test article to the ISS.

I completely agree with his statement though.  When the last time SpaceX made any mention of Crew Dragon?  I know when a part time employee who cleans the bathrooms is hired at Boca Chica before I know any progress on Crew Dragon.

[punder]

Her error is in extrapolating <50% funding for 2 years to 5 years.

Technically correct but pointless quibble. Garver's true point is valid and obvious.

[Navier–Stokes]

I completely agree with his statement though.  When the last time SpaceX made any mention of Crew Dragon?  I know when a part time employee who cleans the bathrooms is hired at Boca Chica before I know any progress on Crew Dragon.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1166448459085316096
https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1167234510796263425
https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1172215126344122368
https://twitter.com/Commercial_Crew/status/1174406494839824385
https://twitter.com/Commercial_Crew/status/1177649919131303937

[Lemurion]

Apart from the generally classless phrasing of the statement it’s also telling that SpaceX is further ahead on commercial crew than Boeing but only SpaceX was tagged in the tweet. If Bridenstine was aiming it at all space contractors, he should have tagged them.

SpaceX has at least sent a Crew Dragon test article to the ISS.

I completely agree with his statement though.  When the last time SpaceX made any mention of Crew Dragon?  I know when a part time employee who cleans the bathrooms is hired at Boca Chica before I know any progress on Crew Dragon.

SpaceX mentions Crew Dragon progress regularly; it doesn't mention it as often as Elon tweets about Starship because it's not progressing as fast. Commercial Crew has a lot more factors acting to slow it down than Starship, and that's reflected in the number of announcements we get.