Author Topic: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation  (Read 195008 times)

Offline Asteroza

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Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #80 on: 04/08/2019 01:57 am »
Hmmm
Cloud services seeking global low latency private networks.

Simple example being Google's Stadia streaming game service which is latency sensitive, but other latency sensitive cloud services beyond HFT such as advanced AR (which many say hinges on 5G low latency) is another point.

Offline Ludus

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Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #81 on: 04/08/2019 04:22 am »
Hmmm
Cloud services seeking global low latency private networks.

Simple example being Google's Stadia streaming game service which is latency sensitive, but other latency sensitive cloud services beyond HFT such as advanced AR (which many say hinges on 5G low latency) is another point.

Or Mark Handley’s of low latency business/financial (not HS trading which is collocated at exchanges) between financial city pairs.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #82 on: 04/09/2019 07:01 pm »
Another article on constellation. Nothing new just some industry experts comments.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/05/jeff-bezos-amazon-internet-satellites-4-billion-new-customers.html

IMHO I don't think Amazon is targetting domestic customers. More likely they are building secure low latency network for their data centers and big customers. Domestic customers would be nice bonus revenue but not critical to business plan.

Who builds satellites is another big question. Does Amazon setup their own factory, buy existing manufacturer or contract work out?.

Offline Asteroza

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Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #83 on: 04/10/2019 12:18 am »
Another article on constellation. Nothing new just some industry experts comments.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/05/jeff-bezos-amazon-internet-satellites-4-billion-new-customers.html

IMHO I don't think Amazon is targetting domestic customers. More likely they are building secure low latency network for their data centers and big customers. Domestic customers would be nice bonus revenue but not critical to business plan.

Who builds satellites is another big question. Does Amazon setup their own factory, buy existing manufacturer or contract work out?.

Well they are hiring a lot of design people, which leans towards in-house (but Seattle?). Didn't Blue just start some expansion work on their Florida compound that would effectively double the footprint? Could be there. They could also put up a RFI for a payload interface and bus standards (size, weight, power, cooling also known as SWaP-C), and let the makers fight among themselves, but they are hiring an electric propulsion lead which suggests they will be heavily involved with the satellite bus chassis and not that agnostic about the bus.

Offline Tuna-Fish

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Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #84 on: 04/10/2019 06:05 am »
One interesting option available for Amazon running their backhaul on their own satellites is to make the down/uplinks to their datacenters use optical links. Optical links work just fine through the atmosphere (just gotta pick a wavelength that doesn't mind clouds), the main downside is that unlike with RF links the transceivers need to physically track their targets so the amount of targets an optical downlink can track is fixed and low (probably most sensibly =< 1).

The main reason to do this is that the geographical bandwidth density will be much higher using optical links. Starlink would have a hard time serving as the AWS backhaul simply because the targets are too concentrated, while using multiple optical links on the roof AWS can get full bandwidth of all of their visible satellites in a single building.

Offline cebri

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Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #85 on: 04/10/2019 09:43 am »
Mmm... I wonder what their timeline is. I doubt they'll limit themselves to BO launchers. Imagine if they buy launches from SpaceX  :o
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Offline leolig

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Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #86 on: 07/05/2019 04:31 pm »
New FCC License

Quote
Kuiper Systems LLC requests authority to launch and operate a non-geostationary satellite orbit system using Ka-band frequencies.


Online gongora

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Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #87 on: 07/05/2019 05:22 pm »
New FCC License

Quote
Kuiper Systems LLC requests authority to launch and operate a non-geostationary satellite orbit system using Ka-band frequencies.

Application for a license.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out since it's the first major application outside of the previous NGSO processing round.

Online gongora

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Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #88 on: 07/05/2019 06:12 pm »
Quote
The Kuiper System will consist of 3,236 satellites operating in 98 orbital planes at altitudes of 590 km, 610 km, and 630 km.

The Kuiper System will be capable of providing continuous coverage to customers within approximately 56˚N and 56˚S latitude serving the continental United States, Hawaii, U.S. territories, and other regions of the world.

Service rollout will begin as soon as the first 578 satellites are launched. Coverage begins at 56˚N and 56˚S latitudes and quickly expands toward the equator as more satellites are launched.

Amazon requests that their application not be considered in a processing round, since that would be inconvenient for them, and it sounds like they think they should be allowed to share spectrum with the constellations from the earlier processing round on equal footing.  I bet a lot of other companies will have something to say about that.

Quote
Kuiper Systems LLC is a limited liability company organized in Delaware and wholly-owned by Amazon.com Services, Inc., a Delaware Corporation. The principal office and business address of Amazon.com Services, Inc. and Kuiper Systems LLC is 410 Terry Avenue North, Seattle, WA 98109-5210.

Quote
During deployment, full-time commercial service will initially be available between 39°N-56°N and 39°S-56°S latitudes.

The Kuiper satellites use advanced phased array antennas with multiple user beams. The antenna technology and software-defined control functionality allow flexible frequency and capacity allocation depending on the needs of customers within a given region. A separate set of antennas on the Kuiper satellites communicate with gateway earth stations.

The use of high gain, steerable and shapeable phased array antennas, operation at low orbital altitudes, supports virtual spots of approximately 300 km2  (or a radius of just under 10 km). A larger user beam of approximately 500 km2 (~2dB reduced in directivity) may be used in cases where larger spot-beam sizes are needed for coverage.

The beams from the satellites in the 590 km and 610 km shells will be adjusted to approximately match the beams from satellites in the 630 km shell.

User beams from the satellite are only supported for customer terminal elevation angles above 35°.

Both gateways and satellites use an additional  antenna to support handoff to the next gateway link...Each gateway site will have up to four active antennas per site and all antennas can make use of all gateway frequencies and both polarizations.

The number of United States gateways sites will be approximately equal to the number of active satellites serving U.S. territory.

The coverage area for Kuiper satellite gateway beams extends further than that for user beams. Each satellite operating in the 630 km shell can connect to any gateway earth station (subject to availability and traffic constraints) within 58° from nadir corresponding to 3,200,000 km2  gateway coverage area below each satellite.

Mechanically steered, reflector antennas will be used for satellite communications with gateway earth stations for uplink and downlink beams.

Phased arrays for communicating with user terminals and reflector antennas for communicating with gateways.

Quote
Amazon has designed the Kuiper satellites and the processes for deployment and operation of the Kuiper System so that no debris will be released during normal deployment and operations.

The satellite design goal is to use unpressurized non-explosive propellant storage. No hypergolics or explosive actuation devices will be used and the propellant will be chemically inert.

The production satellite will be dispensed into an orbit safely below the International Space Station (“ISS”) and individually checked out to validate nominal performance of all systems. Any aberrant satellite will be deorbited. After successful checkout, collision avoidance procedures will be initiated before and continue throughout orbit raise,

Kuiper satellites will actively decommission and deorbit within one year after the active mission lifetime. While decommissioning, all satellites will continue to perform avoidance
maneuvers in consequence of ongoing conjunction assessment plans, maintaining the same high standards as during the mission operations phase. Own-ship ephemerides will also be made available throughout the lifecycle, to the 18th Space Control Squadron (SpCS) and civilian SSA clearinghouse organizations.

During active deorbit, a Kuiper satellite’s perigee will be lowered to below ISS to assure rapid demise. The satellite’s apogee will then also be lowered below ISS. During these orbit lowering maneuvers, conjunction avoidance will be active. After the final orbit-lowering stage, de-energization of onboard systems will be initiated, followed by reentry and demise. Total duration of active deorbit will be less than one year.
« Last Edit: 07/05/2019 06:15 pm by gongora »

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #89 on: 07/05/2019 07:51 pm »
They could be using water for propellant.
 
"
The satellite design goal is to use unpressurized non-explosive propellant storage. No hypergolics or explosive actuation devices will be used and the propellant will be chemically inert.
"
While document gives details on end of life deorbiting of active satellites, doesn't say how they deal with dead satellites. There are going to be a few dead satellites given size of constellation.



Online gongora

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Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #90 on: 07/05/2019 08:08 pm »
While document gives details on end of life deorbiting of active satellites, doesn't say how they deal with dead satellites. There are going to be a few dead satellites given size of constellation.

Quote
Amazon has also considered the Commission’s Notice of Proposed Rulemaking on
Mitigation of Orbital Debris in the New Space Age in selecting the Kuiper System’s constellation
altitudes to ensure that satellites will passively deorbit in under 10 years (typically 5-7 years). At
the densest projected ballistic coefficient, and average sunspot activity, the following trajectory
predicts 6 years decay time for satellites in the 630 km shell.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #91 on: 07/06/2019 01:01 am »
They could be using water for propellant.
 
"
The satellite design goal is to use unpressurized non-explosive propellant storage. No hypergolics or explosive actuation devices will be used and the propellant will be chemically inert.
"
While document gives details on end of life deorbiting of active satellites, doesn't say how they deal with dead satellites. There are going to be a few dead satellites given size of constellation.
Or tetrafluoroethane.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline Joseph Peterson

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Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #92 on: 07/06/2019 02:52 pm »
They could be using water for propellant.
 
"
The satellite design goal is to use unpressurized non-explosive propellant storage. No hypergolics or explosive actuation devices will be used and the propellant will be chemically inert.
"
While document gives details on end of life deorbiting of active satellites, doesn't say how they deal with dead satellites. There are going to be a few dead satellites given size of constellation.
Or tetrafluoroethane.

The unpressurized bit has me stumped.  Where can I find information about unpressurized tetrafluoroethane propulsion systems?

Offline Zond

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Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #93 on: 07/06/2019 05:14 pm »
They could be using water for propellant.
 
"
The satellite design goal is to use unpressurized non-explosive propellant storage. No hypergolics or explosive actuation devices will be used and the propellant will be chemically inert.
"
While document gives details on end of life deorbiting of active satellites, doesn't say how they deal with dead satellites. There are going to be a few dead satellites given size of constellation.



Xenon, Krypton, ... are also chemically inert and they are looking for someone with "Experience with design and operation of space ion propulsion" (Senior Electric Propulsion System Development Lead). So it seems pretty clear to me that the Project Kuiper satellites will be using ion propulsion just like Starlink.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #94 on: 07/06/2019 09:14 pm »
But Joseph brings up a good point: those aren’t unpressurized.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Chasm

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Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #95 on: 07/07/2019 12:24 am »
Perhaps iodine or another of the more exotic variants?

Offline Joseph Peterson

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Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #96 on: 07/07/2019 01:46 am »
I'd be interested in seeing metal stored as a solid used in ion drives.  I've no clue if this could make a good propulsion system but being able to "paint" debris with "ferromagnetic" paint strikes me a a great way to take advantage of Earth's magnetic field to deorbit debris without having to physically contact the trash.

More realistically I expect the plan is passivization by venting tanks.  These might be low pressure tanks if technology like Purdue's FEMTA thruster is good enough, but pressure it is.

Offline TrevorMonty


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Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #98 on: 07/17/2019 01:18 pm »
I'd be interested in seeing metal stored as a solid used in ion drives.  I've no clue if this could make a good propulsion system but being able to "paint" debris with "ferromagnetic" paint strikes me a a great way to take advantage of Earth's magnetic field to deorbit debris without having to physically contact the trash.

More realistically I expect the plan is passivization by venting tanks.  These might be low pressure tanks if technology like Purdue's FEMTA thruster is good enough, but pressure it is.

Maybe off-topic for this thread, but I just ran across documentation for the Harbinger satellite that was recently launched on a Rocket Lab flight:

"The spacecraft is equipped with a low thrust propulsion system that uses a solid metal propellant.  During normal propulsive operations, the solid metal is heated to a liquid state which becomes the ion source.  Ions are then accelerated by an electric field to generate thrust.  There are no volatile chemical propellants or pressurants used in the propulsion system design.  This system will be powered off, making it inert, during post-mission disposal operations."

Under the mission objectives they listed "Demonstration and assessment of "bolt-on" Field-Effect Electric Propulsion (FEEP) System."

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation
« Reply #99 on: 07/30/2019 07:57 pm »
Found few articles about power usage of AWS data centres. We are talks 100MWs for some centres. Once their satellite constellation is in place I can see AWS starting to placing data centres in space. They could well end up being biggest user of space stations.

Tags: kuiper 
 

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