Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation

[meekGee]

Yes. On their notional roadmap...

 

That's BO's roadmap. Why is this thread in the BO section anyway?

Because the SpaceX section already has a thread about constellations

[Eric Hedman]

What I wonder about with these companies creating broadband constellations is what the other large cloud providers are thinking.  If they're not building their own constellation, they have to be wondering where they fit in.  According to ZD Net the   2018 revenues of the largest cloud service providers were:

 1 - Microsoft Commercial Cloud     - $21.2 Billion
 2 - Amazon Web Services             - $20.4 Billion
 3 - IBM                                          - $10.3 Billion
 4 - Oracle                                      - $6.8 Billion
 5 - Google Cloud Platform             - $4 Billion
 6 - Alibaba                                    - $ 2 Billion

There are many more smaller ones out there.  The growth is phenomenal.   You really have to wonder what Microsoft, IBM and Oracle are thinking how this fits into their future.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/top-cloud-providers-2018-how-aws-microsoft-google-ibm-oracle-alibaba-stack-up/?sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAlPnh7bvhAhUixYMKHX-lCGQQ1i8IJzAT

[meekGee]

What I wonder about with these companies creating broadband constellations is what the other large cloud providers are thinking.  If they're not building their own constellation, they have to be wondering where they fit in.  According to ZD Net the   2018 revenues of the largest cloud service providers were:

 1 - Microsoft Commercial Cloud     - $21.2 Billion
 2 - Amazon Web Services             - $20.4 Billion
 3 - IBM                                          - $10.3 Billion
 4 - Oracle                                      - $6.8 Billion
 5 - Google Cloud Platform             - $4 Billion
 6 - Alibaba                                    - $ 2 Billion

There are many more smaller ones out there.  The growth is phenomenal.   You really have to wonder what Microsoft, IBM and Oracle are thinking how this fits into their future.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/top-cloud-providers-2018-how-aws-microsoft-google-ibm-oracle-alibaba-stack-up/?sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAlPnh7bvhAhUixYMKHX-lCGQQ1i8IJzAT

Interesting - didn't know MS Cloud outranked Google by so much.
I thought it'd be obvious that Google will align with Starlink, but assuming AWS is neck-to-neck with MS, it'd make sense MS won't be using the Amazon net, so will also head towards Starlink...   The enemy of my enemy?

[Eric Hedman]

Interesting - didn't know MS Cloud outranked Google by so much.
I thought it'd be obvious that Google will align with Starlink, but assuming AWS is neck-to-neck with MS, it'd make sense MS won't be using the Amazon net, so will also head towards Starlink...   The enemy of my enemy?

But Microsoft goes head to head with Google on search engines.  Does that make them look to OneWeb?  Does Microsoft start investing in an existing company?  Or do they think about creating their own constellation?

This will get interesting quickly.

[TrevorMonty]

What I wonder about with these companies creating broadband constellations is what the other large cloud providers are thinking.  If they're not building their own constellation, they have to be wondering where they fit in.  According to ZD Net the   2018 revenues of the largest cloud service providers were:

 1 - Microsoft Commercial Cloud     - $21.2 Billion
 2 - Amazon Web Services             - $20.4 Billion
 3 - IBM                                          - $10.3 Billion
 4 - Oracle                                      - $6.8 Billion
 5 - Google Cloud Platform             - $4 Billion
 6 - Alibaba                                    - $ 2 Billion

There are many more smaller ones out there.  The growth is phenomenal.   You really have to wonder what Microsoft, IBM and Oracle are thinking how this fits into their future.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/top-cloud-providers-2018-how-aws-microsoft-google-ibm-oracle-alibaba-stack-up/?sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAlPnh7bvhAhUixYMKHX-lCGQQ1i8IJzAT

Interesting - didn't know MS Cloud outranked Google by so much.
I thought it'd be obvious that Google will align with Starlink, but assuming AWS is neck-to-neck with MS, it'd make sense MS won't be using the Amazon net, so will also head towards Starlink...   The enemy of my enemy?

They are competitors no enemies. Competing companies quite often buy services and products from their competitor. Eg ULA is buying engines from Blue and NG. OA used ULA for Cygnus launch.

[meekGee]

What I wonder about with these companies creating broadband constellations is what the other large cloud providers are thinking.  If they're not building their own constellation, they have to be wondering where they fit in.  According to ZD Net the   2018 revenues of the largest cloud service providers were:

 1 - Microsoft Commercial Cloud     - $21.2 Billion
 2 - Amazon Web Services             - $20.4 Billion
 3 - IBM                                          - $10.3 Billion
 4 - Oracle                                      - $6.8 Billion
 5 - Google Cloud Platform             - $4 Billion
 6 - Alibaba                                    - $ 2 Billion

There are many more smaller ones out there.  The growth is phenomenal.   You really have to wonder what Microsoft, IBM and Oracle are thinking how this fits into their future.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/top-cloud-providers-2018-how-aws-microsoft-google-ibm-oracle-alibaba-stack-up/?sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAlPnh7bvhAhUixYMKHX-lCGQQ1i8IJzAT

Interesting - didn't know MS Cloud outranked Google by so much.
I thought it'd be obvious that Google will align with Starlink, but assuming AWS is neck-to-neck with MS, it'd make sense MS won't be using the Amazon net, so will also head towards Starlink...   The enemy of my enemy?

They are competitors no enemies. Competing companies quite often buy services and products from their competitor. Eg ULA is buying engines from Blue and NG.

Yeah, but for a cloud company to have the backbone controlled by a competitor, that's a hard one to swallow.
Starlink is not  a competitor to MS or Google, and they can both user it.  Amazon, OTOH, is.

[Ludus]

What I wonder about with these companies creating broadband constellations is what the other large cloud providers are thinking.  If they're not building their own constellation, they have to be wondering where they fit in.  According to ZD Net the   2018 revenues of the largest cloud service providers were:

 1 - Microsoft Commercial Cloud     - $21.2 Billion
 2 - Amazon Web Services             - $20.4 Billion
 3 - IBM                                          - $10.3 Billion
 4 - Oracle                                      - $6.8 Billion
 5 - Google Cloud Platform             - $4 Billion
 6 - Alibaba                                    - $ 2 Billion

There are many more smaller ones out there.  The growth is phenomenal.   You really have to wonder what Microsoft, IBM and Oracle are thinking how this fits into their future.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/top-cloud-providers-2018-how-aws-microsoft-google-ibm-oracle-alibaba-stack-up/?sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAlPnh7bvhAhUixYMKHX-lCGQQ1i8IJzAT

Interesting - didn't know MS Cloud outranked Google by so much.
I thought it'd be obvious that Google will align with Starlink, but assuming AWS is neck-to-neck with MS, it'd make sense MS won't be using the Amazon net, so will also head towards Starlink...   The enemy of my enemy?

Amazon/AWS having it’s own constellation gives an extra push to each one of these other 5 companies to align with Starlink. Alibaba is China’s Amazon. Oracle’s Larry Ellison is on Tesla’s board and a friend of Elon. Elon has the advantage that he isn’t seen as having ambitions to rival them in cloud infrastructure, e-commerce, or most of the other major markets they’re in (unlike Amazon that does).

[Ludus]

Is there any indication that the Kuiper Constellation has the ambition Starlink has for laser intersatellite links and becoming a new lower latency internet backbone? Or does it seem to be another One Web?

IMO given Amazon's AWS business this is both expected and almost a foregone conclusion.

I think you’re right and that Jeff Bezos will just keep quiet about it as long as possible. He has the cover of looking like One Web as long as he can maintain it. I think it makes some difference even if everybody suspects it’s a cover. ISTM that Elon’s reveal of Starlink in Seattle was just an excess of enthusiasm for a cool idea in front of an audience of engineers he wanted to recruit, not planned. Jeff Bezos won’t make that mistake.

[meekGee]

Is there any indication that the Kuiper Constellation has the ambition Starlink has for laser intersatellite links and becoming a new lower latency internet backbone? Or does it seem to be another One Web?

IMO given Amazon's AWS business this is both expected and almost a foregone conclusion.

I think you’re right and that Jeff Bezos will just keep quiet about it as long as possible. He has the cover of looking like One Web as long as he can maintain it. I think it makes some difference even if everybody suspects it’s a cover. ISTM that Elon’s reveal of Starlink in Seattle was just an excess of enthusiasm for a cool idea in front of an audience of engineers he wanted to recruit, not planned. Jeff Bezos won’t make that mistake.

Notice Musk has never hid his intentions for any significant amount of time..  He fully laid out his plans for rockets and reusability and cars and transportation - he doesn't care if there are followers out there.

Quite the opposite - I think he'd rather generate the buzz, make the market happen, take the lead, and be first of the pack rather than the only one running.

[noogie]

Amazon/AWS having it’s own constellation gives an extra push to each one of these other 5 companies to align with Starlink.

I could see them also possibly lining up behind Telesat or OneWeb.
Google probably already has first dibs on Starlink and what's left may or may not be attractive enough to the other really big cloud providers.
I could see Starlink capacity left over after Google being more likely to be sold to smaller cloud providers like Salesforce, etc.

[meekGee]

Amazon/AWS having it’s own constellation gives an extra push to each one of these other 5 companies to align with Starlink.

I could see them also possibly lining up behind Telesat or OneWeb.
Google probably already has first dibs on Starlink and what's left may or may not be attractive enough to the other really big cloud providers.
I could see Starlink capacity left over after Google being more likely to be sold to smaller cloud providers like Salesforce, etc.

Starlink and Google are no co-owned.  I can't see them going with Google instead of MS.  But I do see them offering a neutral service so that others can use the backbone equally (or according to contract terms, rather).

The only unlikely combinations are Amazon using Starlink, and other cloud players using Amazon.

OneWeb, meanwhile, is not currently in the backbone business.  I always thought Amazon would buy and upgrade them, because of the above consideration, but Amazon decided to go it by themselves.  OneWeb may still be funded by one of the other players.

Remember when the idea of LEO and VLEO mega-constellations was considered not viable or even feasible?

[AAPSkylab]

I just looked back and it was January 2015 when Starlink was first announced. 

In slightly more than 4 years the idea has went from a "hail mary" way of paying for BFR and Mars to the present where some of the largest corporations in the world are ready to invest literally billions of dollars in the first LEO based industry.

[meekGee]

I just looked back and it was January 2015 when Starlink was first announced. 

In slightly more than 4 years the idea has went from a "hail mary" way of paying for BFR and Mars to the present where some of the largest corporations in the world are ready to invest literally billions of dollars in the first LEO based industry.

IMO Starlink was one of several ways SpaceX has been growing the market for its rocket.

There was a lot of "There's nothing to do with a rapidly reusable rocket, the market's just not there" talk back then.

Starlink makes sense as a corporate strategy for SpaceX even without BFR and Mars.

[Lar]

That's BO's roadmap. Why is this thread in the BO section anyway?

Because the SpaceX section already has a thread about constellations

We mods had a chat about this and it seemed best to be || with how we organized Starlink. That's not intended to spark a big debate, just letting you all know. We reorganize things all the time. If we (no, make that WHEN we) get to where there are a lot of space industry threads, because space industry is taking off[1], expect both Starlink and this to get migrated there.

1 - don't hate me for that pun. Much better reasons exist.

[Oli]

Is there any indication that the Kuiper Constellation has the ambition Starlink has for laser intersatellite links and becoming a new lower latency internet backbone? Or does it seem to be another One Web?

IMO given Amazon's AWS business this is both expected and almost a foregone conclusion.

I think you’re right and that Jeff Bezos will just keep quiet about it as long as possible. He has the cover of looking like One Web as long as he can maintain it. I think it makes some difference even if everybody suspects it’s a cover. ISTM that Elon’s reveal of Starlink in Seattle was just an excess of enthusiasm for a cool idea in front of an audience of engineers he wanted to recruit, not planned. Jeff Bezos won’t make that mistake.

Or it's like the official statement says and Amazon thinks that satellite internet can only compete with terrestrial solutions in sparsely populated regions.

Heretical I know.

[TrevorMonty]

Former SpaceX vice president of satellites Rajeev Badyal and couple members of his team are now leading Amazon’s Project Kuiper, people say.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/07/amazon-hired-former-spacex-management-for-bezos-satellite-internet.html

Taking on former team leaders that SpaceX let go is great way to get head start on this project. They will also know talent in SpaceX worth proaching.

If prime customer for this network is AWS, to be used as their server back haul network then time is on their side.

[HeartofGold2030]

Former SpaceX vice president of satellites Rajeev Badyal and couple members of his team are now leading Amazon’s Project Kuiper, people say.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/07/amazon-hired-former-spacex-management-for-bezos-satellite-internet.html

Taking on former team leaders that SpaceX let go is great way to get head start on this project. They will also know talent in SpaceX worth proaching.

If prime customer for this network is AWS, to be used as their server back haul network then time is on their side.

Lol, they've hired the guy Elon fired for working to slow and wanting loads of Starlink prototypes to lead the project. I guess he's finally found a company that runs at a similar pace to himself...

[Kryten]

 Amazon's internal jobs site has 50+ positions for Project Kuiper, all in Bellevue, Washington. There is a listing for an 'Electric Propulsion System Development Lead' as well as a large number of RF design positions, but nothing about optical communication or optics generally.

[b0objunior]

Former SpaceX vice president of satellites Rajeev Badyal and couple members of his team are now leading Amazon’s Project Kuiper, people say.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/07/amazon-hired-former-spacex-management-for-bezos-satellite-internet.html

Taking on former team leaders that SpaceX let go is great way to get head start on this project. They will also know talent in SpaceX worth proaching.

If prime customer for this network is AWS, to be used as their server back haul network then time is on their side.

Lol, they've hired the guy Elon fired for working to slow and wanting loads of Starlink prototypes to lead the project. I guess he's finally found a company that runs at a similar pace to himself...

Sure, Amazon is very slow... not.

[TrevorMonty]

Former SpaceX vice president of satellites Rajeev Badyal and couple members of his team are now leading Amazon’s Project Kuiper, people say.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/07/amazon-hired-former-spacex-management-for-bezos-satellite-internet.html

Taking on former team leaders that SpaceX let go is great way to get head start on this project. They will also know talent in SpaceX worth proaching.

If prime customer for this network is AWS, to be used as their server back haul network then time is on their side.

Lol, they've hired the guy Elon fired for working to slow and wanting loads of Starlink prototypes to lead the project. I guess he's finally found a company that runs at a similar pace to himself...

Being slow is not how they become one of biggest companies in world.