Author Topic: Amazon Project Kuiper Broadband Constellation (Read 195015 times)

Zed_Noir · « **Reply #220 on:** 04/21/2021 06:50 am »

An interesting option to filled out the Kuiper Constellation's polar slots is buying Falcon Heavy flights with the bigger payload fairing flying out of the LC-39A pad.

Not very likely if at all. But the light show from a night time Falcon Heavy polar orbit launch will be spectacular.

gongora · « **Reply #221 on:** 04/21/2021 08:58 pm »

Quote from: Zed_Noir on 04/21/2021 06:50 am

An interesting option to filled out the Kuiper Constellation's polar slots

What polar slots are you talking about?

Zed_Noir · « **Reply #222 on:** 04/22/2021 04:24 pm »

Quote from: gongora on 04/21/2021 08:58 pm

Quote from: Zed_Noir on 04/21/2021 06:50 am
An interesting option to filled out the Kuiper Constellation's polar slots

What polar slots are you talking about?

Eventually Project Kuiper will provided coverage to locations in the high latitudes. Think they will need some comsats in polar orbits for that coverage. Somehow don't see Project Kuiper ceding the high latitude markets permanently to others.

gongora · « **Reply #223 on:** 04/22/2021 05:41 pm »

Kuiper's constellation does not provide global coverage. Sure they could with a future second generation constellation, but the one they've currently applied for doesn't.

thirtyone · « **Reply #224 on:** 04/23/2021 07:31 am »

Does this really belong in the Blue Origin section? I mean, everyone thinks of it that way because Jeff Bezos is involved in both, but ultimately isn't it run under a different company, with different expertise and different goals? The focus is inevitably going to be for profitability for AWS and related operations, not developing new rocket engines or sending people off to space. Keeping that in mind may also help understand the project better - it was not at all surprising to me that they announced that Kuiper would launch on Atlas/Vulcan first.

Bean Kenobi · « **Reply #225 on:** 04/23/2021 11:37 am »

Quote from: thirtyone on 04/23/2021 07:31 am

Does this really belong in the Blue Origin section? I mean, everyone thinks of it that way because Jeff Bezos is involved in both, but ultimately isn't it run under a different company, with different expertise and different goals? The focus is inevitably going to be for profitability for AWS and related operations, not developing new rocket engines or sending people off to space. Keeping that in mind may also help understand the project better - it was not at all surprising to me that they announced that Kuiper would launch on Atlas/Vulcan first.

Just Atlas, nothing said about Vulcan.

thirtyone · « **Reply #226 on:** 04/27/2021 02:41 am »

Quote from: Bean Kenobi on 04/23/2021 11:37 am

Quote from: thirtyone on 04/23/2021 07:31 am
Does this really belong in the Blue Origin section? I mean, everyone thinks of it that way because Jeff Bezos is involved in both, but ultimately isn't it run under a different company, with different expertise and different goals? The focus is inevitably going to be for profitability for AWS and related operations, not developing new rocket engines or sending people off to space. Keeping that in mind may also help understand the project better - it was not at all surprising to me that they announced that Kuiper would launch on Atlas/Vulcan first.

Just Atlas, nothing said about Vulcan.

Whups! I had in my head that Tory Bruno mentioned transitioning customers from Atlas to Vulcan when it launches successfully, but I can't find it so I must've imagined it. Are there even enough RD-180s for these launches?

b0objunior · « **Reply #227 on:** 04/27/2021 10:00 pm »

Quote from: thirtyone on 04/27/2021 02:41 am

Quote from: Bean Kenobi on 04/23/2021 11:37 am
Quote from: thirtyone on 04/23/2021 07:31 am
Does this really belong in the Blue Origin section? I mean, everyone thinks of it that way because Jeff Bezos is involved in both, but ultimately isn't it run under a different company, with different expertise and different goals? The focus is inevitably going to be for profitability for AWS and related operations, not developing new rocket engines or sending people off to space. Keeping that in mind may also help understand the project better - it was not at all surprising to me that they announced that Kuiper would launch on Atlas/Vulcan first.

Just Atlas, nothing said about Vulcan.

Whups! I had in my head that Tory Bruno mentioned transitioning customers from Atlas to Vulcan when it launches successfully, but I can't find it so I must've imagined it. Are there even enough RD-180s for these launches?

Hum, yes, ULA doesn't sell launches without engines.

Asteroza · « **Reply #228 on:** 04/27/2021 10:21 pm »

In the recent FCC modifications for Starlink, SpaceX agreed to a separation band for their lowered 550km sats to not interfere with Kuiper, per Amazon's request. Appears to be a 10km separation?

gongora · « **Reply #229 on:** 04/27/2021 10:51 pm »

Quote from: Asteroza on 04/27/2021 10:21 pm

In the recent FCC modifications for Starlink, SpaceX agreed to a separation band for their lowered 550km sats to not interfere with Kuiper, per Amazon's request. Appears to be a 10km separation?

SpaceX's upper shell is at 570km, and they initially requested +/- 30km around that. Both the 560 and 570km shells now have a tighter limit. Kuiper will also have some stationkeeping tolerance around the 590km altitude. Starlink staying below 580 allows them to stay completely separate.

Robotbeat · « **Reply #230 on:** 05/13/2021 04:51 pm »

This whole topic should either be in the commercial space section or in the ULA section. All the launches so far are on Atlas V.

Amazon and Blue Origin are completely separate companies. The Kuiper and Blue team rarely talk to one another.

I don’t think the Tesla/SpaceX analogy, as tempting as it might be, is appropriate here.

spacenut · « **Reply #231 on:** 05/13/2021 04:56 pm »

If Jeff Bezos is trying to get Project Kuiper up and running, maybe it won't be like Blue Origin.

AU1.52 · « **Reply #232 on:** 05/13/2021 05:37 pm »

Seems odd he would have two separate space companies but probably just has well as one is seeking to be a hare and the other a snail as far as getting things done.

Alberto-Girardi · « **Reply #233 on:** 05/13/2021 06:24 pm »

There are a lot of companies trying to do the same thing: deliver satellite internet.

Is this the first time that many companies go in a non-yet-proven buisness (even if it reasonabilly will be a profitable one)?

If yes, what where the outcomes? One company gained all the market? Or not? Can we aspect similar outcome for this market?

Robotbeat · « **Reply #234 on:** 05/13/2021 06:48 pm »

There is, in fact, an extremely good analogy. We did this whole thing 25 years ago. It was even with LEO constellations, some of them hoping to be megaconstellations even. One or two reusable rocket companies were hoping to make a big market out of it.

Every last one of them went bankrupt, but not before some of them launched. Orbcomm, Iridium, Globalstar. Teledesic (an actual satellite broadband Internet megaconstellation concept) launched an actual prototype, but the company failed and folded before anything came of it.

Orbcomm, Globalstar, and Iridium after bankruptcy became useful enough to start turning a profit and launched successor upgraded constellations. Two of which launched mostly on Falcon 9.

su27k · « **Reply #235 on:** 05/14/2021 03:47 am »

Quote from: Alberto-Girardi on 05/13/2021 06:24 pm

There are a lot of companies trying to do the same thing: deliver satellite internet.

Is this the first time that many companies go in a non-yet-proven buisness (even if it reasonabilly will be a profitable one)?

If yes, what where the outcomes? One company gained all the market? Or not? Can we aspect similar outcome for this market?

The dotcom bubble in the late 1990s, tons of companies like Pets.com went bust, but it also created today's tech giants such as Google and Amazon.

Robotbeat · « **Reply #236 on:** 05/14/2021 02:03 pm »

How do we get this thread moved to Commercial Spaceflight or ULA’s section? It’s reinforcing a misconception to put this thread here. Just report to moderator?

gongora · « **Reply #237 on:** 07/14/2021 02:28 am »

https://www.geekwire.com/2021/facebooks-satellite-connectivity-team-makes-switch-amazons-project-kuiper/

Quote

Facebook has struck a deal to have more than a dozen of its wireless internet experts move over to Amazon to work on its Project Kuiper satellite broadband network, The Information reported today.

An Amazon spokesperson told GeekWire that the report was accurate.

su27k · « **Reply #238 on:** 07/15/2021 12:30 pm »

This NET 2023 launch date may be news: Amazon bought Facebook’s satellite team to help build Starlink competitor

Quote

Amazon told Ars last month that 2023 is the earliest it expects to launch satellites. FCC rules give Amazon six years to launch and operate 50 percent of its licensed satellites, which means that the company needs to launch 1,618 satellites by July 30, 2026. Amazon would have to launch the rest of the licensed satellites by July 30, 2029. Amazon told the FCC it plans to offer broadband to customers after it launches the first 578 satellites.

Asteroza · « **Reply #239 on:** 07/18/2021 11:33 pm »

Quote from: gongora on 07/14/2021 02:28 am

https://www.geekwire.com/2021/facebooks-satellite-connectivity-team-makes-switch-amazons-project-kuiper/
Quote
Facebook has struck a deal to have more than a dozen of its wireless internet experts move over to Amazon to work on its Project Kuiper satellite broadband network, The Information reported today.

An Amazon spokesperson told GeekWire that the report was accurate.

This is interesting in the context of all the lasercomm work Facebook had done with their UAV drone and their athena sat. Is Amazon trying to get a headstart on their lasercomm work, trying to bring it in-house rather than buying COTS from the likes of Mynaric?

Facebook has always been trying to improve user connectivity to Facebook, so this may be some beginning work to establish a greater partnership with Kuiper. But, Facebook has been doing a ton of open source work in the terrestrial cellular realm, especially O-RAN related work.