Quote from: ncb1397 on 10/02/2019 10:28 pmQuote from: lonestriker on 10/02/2019 10:11 pmQuote from: ncb1397 on 10/02/2019 06:16 pmQuote from: lonestriker on 07/31/2019 02:14 amThere's been discussions of putting some sort of cache for content in the constellation satellites themselves to move things like movies and other streaming content closer to the users. I could see how something like having a bunch of SSDs to cache content in satellites could be useful. But not much beyond that.You basically just described a data center.I work with our own data centers across the globe daily, so this is actually in my wheelhouse. What I've described is more like a stripped down CDN and not a data center. Data centers provide compute and storage among other services. If Starlink provides basic CDN features to cache content closer to customer downlinks, it would be a huge advantage and prevent a lot of duplicate data from having to traverse their constellation as well as very extremely low latency. Whether they'll get into that game or not and solve all the technical issues with delivering content directly from their birds and all the associated hand-off issues is unknown. I'd put the chance of that as pretty unlikely for the first few iterations of Starlink as it really is an optimization they can tackle after they've got the basics and ISLs working.Anyways, data repository in space has already been done. Do you think that when you order video on demand from Dish or DirectTV, they upload the file to the satellite, let you watch it, and then delete it only for the next user to request it shortly thereafter? No, that would be silly.When you say "has already been done", is this based on anything you actually know?Because what you're describing doesn't sound to me like something that actually exists or is practical.
Quote from: lonestriker on 10/02/2019 10:11 pmQuote from: ncb1397 on 10/02/2019 06:16 pmQuote from: lonestriker on 07/31/2019 02:14 amThere's been discussions of putting some sort of cache for content in the constellation satellites themselves to move things like movies and other streaming content closer to the users. I could see how something like having a bunch of SSDs to cache content in satellites could be useful. But not much beyond that.You basically just described a data center.I work with our own data centers across the globe daily, so this is actually in my wheelhouse. What I've described is more like a stripped down CDN and not a data center. Data centers provide compute and storage among other services. If Starlink provides basic CDN features to cache content closer to customer downlinks, it would be a huge advantage and prevent a lot of duplicate data from having to traverse their constellation as well as very extremely low latency. Whether they'll get into that game or not and solve all the technical issues with delivering content directly from their birds and all the associated hand-off issues is unknown. I'd put the chance of that as pretty unlikely for the first few iterations of Starlink as it really is an optimization they can tackle after they've got the basics and ISLs working.Anyways, data repository in space has already been done. Do you think that when you order video on demand from Dish or DirectTV, they upload the file to the satellite, let you watch it, and then delete it only for the next user to request it shortly thereafter? No, that would be silly.
Quote from: ncb1397 on 10/02/2019 06:16 pmQuote from: lonestriker on 07/31/2019 02:14 amThere's been discussions of putting some sort of cache for content in the constellation satellites themselves to move things like movies and other streaming content closer to the users. I could see how something like having a bunch of SSDs to cache content in satellites could be useful. But not much beyond that.You basically just described a data center.I work with our own data centers across the globe daily, so this is actually in my wheelhouse. What I've described is more like a stripped down CDN and not a data center. Data centers provide compute and storage among other services. If Starlink provides basic CDN features to cache content closer to customer downlinks, it would be a huge advantage and prevent a lot of duplicate data from having to traverse their constellation as well as very extremely low latency. Whether they'll get into that game or not and solve all the technical issues with delivering content directly from their birds and all the associated hand-off issues is unknown. I'd put the chance of that as pretty unlikely for the first few iterations of Starlink as it really is an optimization they can tackle after they've got the basics and ISLs working.
Quote from: lonestriker on 07/31/2019 02:14 amThere's been discussions of putting some sort of cache for content in the constellation satellites themselves to move things like movies and other streaming content closer to the users. I could see how something like having a bunch of SSDs to cache content in satellites could be useful. But not much beyond that.You basically just described a data center.
There's been discussions of putting some sort of cache for content in the constellation satellites themselves to move things like movies and other streaming content closer to the users. I could see how something like having a bunch of SSDs to cache content in satellites could be useful. But not much beyond that.
Quote from: meekGee on 10/03/2019 12:36 amQuote from: ncb1397 on 10/02/2019 10:28 pmAnyways, data repository in space has already been done. Do you think that when you order video on demand from Dish or DirectTV, they upload the file to the satellite, let you watch it, and then delete it only for the next user to request it shortly thereafter? No, that would be silly.When you say "has already been done", is this based on anything you actually know?Because what you're describing doesn't sound to me like something that actually exists or is practical.Well, if you do the math, you can fit about 40,000 2 hour long HD videos on a single 100 TB SSD that likely costs well under $100,000. That should be comparable to Netflix's catalog which uses up 15% of internet bandwidth(and will presumably use up a similar amount on a NGSO constellation). As far as compute costs, the top end GPU from nVidia costs $2500 and weighs ~1.3 kg. Assuming $5000 per kg, that puts the cost delivered on orbit at $9000 - about 3-4x the cost. As far as utilities, assuming $5000 per kg and 100 W per kg, cost for utilities in LEO would be about $1 per kwh over a 10 year service life - again about 3x the cost of electricity in Germany.But the major issue with satellite internet has been bandwidth caps that essentially is destroyed by video. This could be one strategy to get around that by at least minimizing the impact on the up link side.
Quote from: ncb1397 on 10/02/2019 10:28 pmAnyways, data repository in space has already been done. Do you think that when you order video on demand from Dish or DirectTV, they upload the file to the satellite, let you watch it, and then delete it only for the next user to request it shortly thereafter? No, that would be silly.When you say "has already been done", is this based on anything you actually know?Because what you're describing doesn't sound to me like something that actually exists or is practical.
Anyways, data repository in space has already been done. Do you think that when you order video on demand from Dish or DirectTV, they upload the file to the satellite, let you watch it, and then delete it only for the next user to request it shortly thereafter? No, that would be silly.
When you say "has already been done", is this based on anything you actually know?Because what you're describing doesn't sound to me like something that actually exists or is practical.
Quote from: meekGee on 10/03/2019 12:36 amWhen you say "has already been done", is this based on anything you actually know?Because what you're describing doesn't sound to me like something that actually exists or is practical.The major problem with this idea is lack of serviceability. SSD's have limited lifespan, and with thousands of reads per second 24/7 it wont take long for them to start failing.
That said, I agree that LEO caching for CDNs doesn't make sense with current mass/power/cooling budgets, in part because you lose any sense of geographic locality in LEO.
As Amazon’s Project Kuiper team continues to make great strides, the team has once again outgrown its current facility. With that in mind, we are leasing and renovating a long term home for the Kuiper team in Redmond, WA, which will become Kuiper’s primary headquarters for research & development, as well as its primary prototype manufacturing and qualification facility. Amazon Kuiper’s new state-of-the-art facility will consist of two buildings with a total of 219,000 square feet of space. It will include offices and design space, R&D labs, and prototype manufacturing facilities. Renovations on the facility are already underway, and the Kuiper team will move into the new site in 2020
In its latest petition against #ProjectKuiper's @FCC filing @SpaceX argues @amazon requests special treatment by inclusion in a processing round closed 3y ago, evading commitments towards interference avoidance and a "mechanical approach" towards the same: https://licensing.fcc.gov/myibfs/download.do?attachment_key=2247176
I've worked with low level NAND devices before (without controllers, ECC, etc.) My first impression is that any recent NAND memory can't be sent to space, at all, ever.I think most people would be appalled by how miserably bad those arrays are. They actually do very occasionally lose bits during reads as the charge storing the bits leaks out - you don't hear about these things until you find the industry presentations. The raw bit error rate of some of the modern 3D NAND is easily 1 in 1000 (I'm not kidding here). People are literally continually developing new ECC algorithms to deal with the increasing error rates of higher and higher density NAND.Actually quite impressive they can convert a device with such awful reliability into something people consider to be better than HDDs. Kind of scary if I think about it too hard, though. There's probably quite a bit of planned obsolescence the businesses in this market are planning on...Anyway, to the point - imagine such a high error rate memory getting sent into space, where it'd have to deal with all the extra radiation. I'm...pretty sure any modern density NAND is basically completely unusable, even with absurd amounts of ECC. I think they'd have to step a few generations back, and then apply modern ECC to that drive. Here's a space vendor who sells a built NAND system:https://www.mrcy.com/siteassets/product-datasheets/ssd/trrust-stor-vpx-rt-rad-tolerant-datasheet.pdfThis is a bit larger than a 3.5" HDD, and holds 440GB. Manufacturer claims "<500g." Don't even want to know the price...Some more info on NAND in space:https://passive-components.eu/cots-in-space-products-vs-components-for-space-applications/
The filings lay out a plan to put 3,236 satellites in low Earth orbit — including 784 satellites at an altitude of 367 miles (590 kilometers); 1,296 satellites at a height of 379 miles (610 kilometers); and 1,156 satellites in 391-mile (630-kilometer) orbits.
Amazon said the satellites would provide data coverage for spots on Earth ranging in latitude from 56 degrees north to 56 degrees south. About 95 percent of the world’s population lives within that wide swath of the planet.
Amazon formally announces space business solutions business unit...https://blog.aboutamazon.com/innovation/amazon-web-services-unveils-new-space-business-segmentYour one stop end-to-end shop for your platform needs...
And BO started before SpaceX.
The rocket program isn't Amazon.
Earlier today, I shared with my colleagues a proposal to approve, with conditions, #Kuiper’s application to deploy and operate an NGSO satellite network. Satellite constellations like this aim to provide high-speed broadband service to consumers in the U.S. and around the world.
