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EnVision: ESA Venus mission study
by
Blackstar
on 12 Mar, 2019 21:52
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#1
by
vjkane
on 12 Mar, 2019 22:52
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The EnVision team presented at the last VEXAG meeting. The mission concept then was overweight and over budget. As one solution to the latter, NASA agreed to study supplying the radar unit. Proposers of Venus mapping missions to NASA did not react well as I recall.
If the mission launches, it would be in the early 2030s.
I've followed EnVision for several years and it could have some nice capabilities like higher resolution imaging and a more capable spectrometer than I've seen proposed to NASA.
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#2
by
redliox
on 12 Mar, 2019 23:21
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Hope it can happen. Venus needs love. All though an orbiter is sensible for now I wonder when we could see something like a balloon if not a lander taking a closer look?
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#3
by
vjkane
on 12 Mar, 2019 23:24
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Another thing about the EnVision mission is that they plan to map, although at higher resolution than the proposals to NASA that would have mapped the entire plan, on a portion of the planet covering high importance targets. A tradeoff on depth vs breadth. And a lot of Venus are pretty similar plains.
I don't know if a NASA-supplied radar would allow the higher resolution mapping.
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#4
by
Blackstar
on 13 Mar, 2019 01:22
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#5
by
Blackstar
on 13 Mar, 2019 01:24
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#6
by
Blackstar
on 13 Mar, 2019 01:25
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#7
by
Star One
on 13 Mar, 2019 06:57
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Disappointing in some ways to see yet another orbiter proposed. We see articles every now and again saying that the technology to develop a more long lasting and capable lander are in development, but this never seems to be reflected in mission proposals for the planet. Even some kind of device into the atmosphere or flying through like NG’s VAMP proposal would be a step up.
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#8
by
theinternetftw
on 13 Mar, 2019 07:02
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Disappointing in some ways to see yet another orbiter proposed. We see articles every now and again saying that the technology to develop a more long lasting and capable lander are in development, but this never seems to be reflected in mission proposals for the planet. Even some kind of device into the atmosphere or flying through like NG’s VAMP proposal would be a step up.
Not just another orbiter, another orbiter that, if there are no slips along the way, will start science operations in 2035.
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#9
by
woods170
on 13 Mar, 2019 07:04
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Throwing cold water over this: historically only 1 out of every 20 mission proposals, presented to ESA, result in actual missions.
It will be some time untill it is clear whether this proposal has any chance of actually getting beyond the Powerpoint phase.
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#10
by
theinternetftw
on 13 Mar, 2019 07:09
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Throwing cold water over this: historically over 95% of mission studies done by ESA do NOT result in actual missions.
It will be some time untill it is clear whether this proposal has any chance of actually getting beyond the Powerpoint phase.
Well, it was one of the three down-selected proposals for
M5. So it has that going for it, which is nice.
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#11
by
Star One
on 13 Mar, 2019 10:52
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Disappointing in some ways to see yet another orbiter proposed. We see articles every now and again saying that the technology to develop a more long lasting and capable lander are in development, but this never seems to be reflected in mission proposals for the planet. Even some kind of device into the atmosphere or flying through like NG’s VAMP proposal would be a step up.
Not just another orbiter, another orbiter that, if there are no slips along the way, will start science operations in 2035.
Its date of operation doesn’t stop it being another orbiter.
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#12
by
as58
on 13 Mar, 2019 15:46
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Its date of operation doesn’t stop it being another orbiter.
There are limits to what you can do with ESA medium class mission budget.
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#13
by
Star One
on 14 Mar, 2019 15:44
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Its date of operation doesn’t stop it being another orbiter.
There are limits to what you can do with ESA medium class mission budget.
Is a dedicated lander that much more expensive?
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#14
by
vjkane
on 15 Mar, 2019 00:21
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Its date of operation doesn’t stop it being another orbiter.
There are limits to what you can do with ESA medium class mission budget.
Is a dedicated lander that much more expensive?
Depends on the orbiter and the lander. If your only goal is to get a cubesat equivalent payload into orbit or on the surface to survive a few minutes, you probably can do so for <$200M. The orbiter will be cheaper -- proven technology and all that. The lander needs at least a pressure shell or exotic high temp electronics.
You can grow costs on both arbitrarily from there.
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#15
by
vjkane
on 27 Mar, 2019 12:25
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#16
by
john smith 19
on 13 Apr, 2019 16:57
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This slide on the current status of EnVision was presented as part of the VEXAG update at the recently completed LPSC conference.
Full presentations at
https://www.lpi.usra.edu/vexag/meetings/Town-Hall-LPSC-2019/VEXAG_Town_Hall_032019.pdf
That sounds like this is starting to move toward an actual launch.
People make a big fuss about Mars but Venus is much more dynamic in terms of atmosphere and geology. Since this is an ESA mission it can teach us a lot more about the ffects and mitigation of global warming than Mars ever will.
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#17
by
vjkane
on 14 Apr, 2019 13:38
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That sounds like this is starting to move toward an actual launch.
People make a big fuss about Mars but Venus is much more dynamic in terms of atmosphere and geology. Since this is an ESA mission it can teach us a lot more about the ffects and mitigation of global warming than Mars ever will.
I listened to a presentation on the proposal from last fall's VEXAG meeting. The proposing team has to overcome significant cost (perhaps through the donation of a NASA radar instrument) and mass problems. And then it has to be selected over two other good finalists in the M5 competition. If selected, it's expected to launch in the early 2030s.
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#18
by
vjkane
on 13 May, 2019 19:12
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NASA put out this announcement in the last few days:
Update on NASA Participation on Envision Venus Mission Study
As has been announced previously (most recently at the LPSC Venus Townhall in March), NASA has been invited by ESA to participate in the EnVision mission study, part of the M5 competition. The EnVision mission concept would conduct high resolution radar mapping and atmospheric studies, with a launch readiness date of 2032. NASA has responded to ESA's invitation by providing two US Venus scientists to the EnVision Science Study Team and a systems engineer to the System Engineering Working Group. This partnership has been quite successful.
In March 2019, as part of the mission study process, NASA invited responses of interest and technical capabilities related to a potential instrument and other flight subsystem contributions from three organizations: GSFC, JPL and APL. In late April, NASA received the responses from these institutions and is in the process of assessing them for technical and cost feasibility. The assessment process will take about two months, after which time NASA will determine how to proceed. As presented at the LPSC Venus Town Hall, should ESA choose EnVision as the M5 mission, the science team for any potential contributed facility instrument will be openly competed.
At this time, NASA has not committed to providing a contribution to the mission. For questions or comments, please contact Dr. Adriana Ocampo at
[email protected]
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#19
by
baldusi
on 21 May, 2019 12:16
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Why S-band radar? With all the X-Band and L-Band experience in European SAR missions, I would have assumed you could have gotten a lot of “legacy” designs. I’m pretty sure it had to do with the science requirements and S-band radar characteristics. But I am intrigued.
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#20
by
russianhalo117
on 24 May, 2019 22:09
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Why S-band radar? With all the X-Band and L-Band experience in European SAR missions, I would have assumed you could have gotten a lot of “legacy” designs. I’m pretty sure it had to do with the science requirements and S-band radar characteristics. But I am intrigued.
Different results are obtained depending upon band on the EMS.
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#21
by
zubenelgenubi
on 20 Jul, 2020 21:12
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Cross-post:
https://envisionvenus.eu/envision/
The M-class mission [M5?] would be launched on an Ariane 6.2 in 2032, arriving at Venus after a five month cruise, to perform 4 years of measurements with 5 cutting-edge instruments : an S-band Synthetic Aperture Radar (VenSAR), a Subsurface Radar Sounder (SRS) and VenSpec, a suite of three spectrometers and spectro-imagers : VenSpec-M (Infrared Imager), VenSpec-H (IR spectrometer), and VenSpec-U (UV spectrometer). Envision will also characterise the gravity field of Venus thanks to a Radio Science Experiment. The mission is currently in its concept study phase for a selection expected in 2021.
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#22
by
vjkane
on 25 Apr, 2021 13:24
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There's a new mission study report (an ESA yellow book) on the EnVision proposal dated from February 2021.
https://www.cosmos.esa.int/documents/5763359/5763378/EnVision_YB_final.pdf/e9612355-67de-42a3-c25a-af1683f6fda3?t=1616679461807So far as I know, ESA still plans to announce whether it is selecting EnVision or THESEUS, which "will use long Gamma-Ray Bursts (GRB) to solve key questions about the early Universe and will become a cornerstone of multi-messenger and time-domain astrophysics," in June. (That's the same month as NASA plans to announce it's Discovery mission selection.
The only major change I saw versus previous plans was that EnVision would now use a JPL-supplied S-band radar mapping instrument instead of a unit supplied by Europe. (The proposed VERITAS Discovery mission would use an X-band radar mapping instrument.)
EnVision would map ~40% of Venus in high resolution with its synthetic aperture radar versus near global coverage with VERITAS. I didn't find an explicit statement of why EnVision maps less of the planet (but didn't read the document in detail, either). I suspect that it is a combination of much of Venus' surface is monotonous plains, possible limitations on the amount of data that could be returned through Europe's deep space antennas, and making more repeat imaging (for example, stereo imaging for better local topography) in the interesting places.
In addition to the SAR, EnVision would carry three spectrometers and a ground penetrating radar. The mission would make near global observations with these instruments (and with the main radar unit for global topography).
EnVision would begin making observations in the mid-2030s compared to the mid-2020s for VERITAS.
For those whose sleeping schedules permit watching a presentation at 09.30 GMT, there will be one on this mission on April 29.
https://www.cosmos.esa.int/web/m5-public-presentation
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#23
by
baldusi
on 25 Apr, 2021 14:07
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Venus rotates so slow (and retrograde) that it is impossible to do a SSO. And to go to high inclination orbits you need a lot of delta-v or use the atmosphere. Both might be limiting technical factors that ESA would rather avoid.
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#24
by
vjkane
on 25 Apr, 2021 15:06
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Venus rotates so slow (and retrograde) that it is impossible to do a SSO. And to go to high inclination orbits you need a lot of delta-v or use the atmosphere. Both might be limiting technical factors that ESA would rather avoid.
My suspicion is that the proposers are seeking to limit the total data returned (which is still huge). This lowers the cost of the communication system and the operating costs of the deep space ground network. In a previous competition, EnVision was proposed to map the whole program but couldn't fit within the cost cap. The PI stated that limiting coverage was one strategy to limit costs.
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#25
by
vjkane
on 29 Apr, 2021 14:30
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#26
by
Alpha_Centauri
on 10 Jun, 2021 10:55
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#27
by
eeergo
on 10 Jun, 2021 10:58
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Bye (for now) Theseus, it was nice to barely meet you.
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#28
by
Alpha_Centauri
on 10 Jun, 2021 13:06
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Moral of the story...claim you've found aliens.
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#29
by
Star One
on 10 Jun, 2021 16:09
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#30
by
Star One
on 10 Jun, 2021 16:17
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Moral of the story...claim you've found aliens.
In fairness to that group is not what they did. They were careful about their claims in the actual paper. It was the media who made the claims.
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#31
by
Star One
on 10 Jun, 2021 16:25
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#32
by
Kesarion
on 11 Jun, 2021 13:34
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While Venus is not in my top 10 preferred Solar System destinations, I am happy that EnVision was selected, primarily because I think ESA should develop more planetary science missions.
Between DAVINCI+, VERITAS and EnVision it looks like NASA and ESA are going to spend $1.5-2 billion over the next 15 years towards Venusian exploration. Looks like out closest neighbor is well accounted for, at least for the next generation.
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#33
by
skizzo
on 12 Jun, 2021 16:04
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Hopelly this quenches the Venus thirst and we can go back to cooler destinations in the 2030s in outer space
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#34
by
plutogno
on 12 Jun, 2021 17:02
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Hopelly this quenches the Venus thirst and we can go back to cooler destinations in the 2030s in outer space
are you aware that missions are not selected based on how "cool" the destination is?
and beside, many people (including myself) find Venus very cool!
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#35
by
skizzo
on 12 Jun, 2021 17:17
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Hopelly this quenches the Venus thirst and we can go back to cooler destinations in the 2030s in outer space
are you aware that missions are not selected based on how "cool" the destination is?
and beside, many people (including myself) find Venus very cool!
Yes I am aware.
Cool, but I have a different opinion. I like Venus but I prefer other places, especially now that there are 3 missions to Venus.
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#36
by
bolun
on 08 Mar, 2022 13:13
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#37
by
bolun
on 25 Jan, 2024 20:48
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We're heading for Venus: ESA approves EnVisionESA’s next mission to Venus was officially ‘adopted’ today by the Agency’s Science Programme Committee. EnVision will study Venus from its inner core to its outer atmosphere, giving important new insight into the planet's history, geological activity and climate.
Being adopted means that the study phase is complete and ESA commits to implementing the mission. Following selection of the European industrial contractor later this year, work will soon begin to finalise the design and build the spacecraft. EnVision is foreseen to launch on an Ariane 6 rocket in 2031.
Image credit: ESA