Author Topic: NASA set to purchase more Soyuz seats to ensure uninterrupted access to the ISS  (Read 3638 times)


Offline ChrisGebhardt

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To clarify which missions and seats we're talking about:

The Fall 2019 seat would come from Soyuz MS-15 and would be taken from the spaceflight participant who currently occupies the third seat on that mission.

The Spring 2020 seat would come from Soyuz MS-16 and would be the currently unoccupied, vacant third seat on that mission.
« Last Edit: 02/15/2019 02:09 pm by ChrisGebhardt »

Online Olaf

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The Fall 2019 seat would come from Soyuz MS-15 and would be taken from the spaceflight participant who currently occupies the third seat on that mission.
Are you sure about this?

Offline Rocket Science

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Called this a couple of years ago... :(
« Last Edit: 02/16/2019 01:09 am by Rocket Science »
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Offline Stan Black

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If I understand the contracts between Roskosmos and Energia there is indication of how many spare seats are available?

Currently the contracts show:-

Союз МС-10 (№740) - 2 комплекта - 1 spare seat?
Союз МС-11 (№741) - 1 комплект - 2 spare seats?
Союз МС-12 (№742) - 2 комплекта - 1 spare seat?
Союз МС-14 (№743) - 1 комплект - 2 spare seats?
Союз МС-15 (№744) - 2 комплекта - 1 spare seat?
Союз МС-16 (№745) - 1 комплект - 2 spare seats?
Союз МС-17 (№747) - 3 комплекта
Союз МС-18 (№748) - 3 комплекта
Союз МС-19 (№749) - 3 комплекта
Союз МС-20 (№750) - 3 комплекта

Details:-
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39741.0

There is no reference to Soyuz-MS №746.

What is confusing, is that Soyuz MS-14 (№743) is to be launched without crew. I guess the contracts will be amended in the future, and could explain the absence of №746.

Offline abaddon

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(From Commercial Crew Schedule Analysis thread)

I see in the news this:
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2019/02/nasa-soyuz-seats-uninterrupted-access-iss/

From the outside, it seems that NASA would rather buy launches from the Russians. If SpaceX and Boeing had to go through the same safety validation process that Soyuz went through, how long ago could they have been launching?
To be fair, the "same safety validation process that Soyuz went through" would require SpaceX and Boeing to have a lot of successful crewed launches under their belts.  They don't, so it's not an apples to apples comparison.

Offline zodiacchris

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Maybe drilling a hole in the crew Dragon thatís been sitting in Florida for the last three months waiting for NASA would bring it on par with a Soyus and speed up the qualification process?

Frankly, my dear, I donít give a damn...

Offline Tomness

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https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=623824de4ca36a33ca5242b2acee79e5
Quote
NASA is considering contracting with the State Space Corporation "Roscosmos" for these services on a sole source basis for two (2) Soyuz seats and associated services to the International Space Station (ISS) on the Russian Soyuz spacecraft vehicle. This transportation would be for one crewmember in the Fall of 2019 and one crewmember in the Spring of 2020.

I wonder if NASA & Roscosmos could barder for UAE seat & put them put on a commercial crew vehicle?

Offline ChrisGebhardt

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https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=623824de4ca36a33ca5242b2acee79e5
Quote
NASA is considering contracting with the State Space Corporation "Roscosmos" for these services on a sole source basis for two (2) Soyuz seats and associated services to the International Space Station (ISS) on the Russian Soyuz spacecraft vehicle. This transportation would be for one crewmember in the Fall of 2019 and one crewmember in the Spring of 2020.

I wonder if NASA & Roscosmos could barder for UAE seat & put them put on a commercial crew vehicle?

NASA has zero - absolutely none - interesting in having people pay them for seats for spaceflights to the ISS.  And since NASA is paying SpaceX and Boeing for the seats on Dragon and Starliner, a spaceflight participant is not going to happen.

EDIT (to add): Roscosmos spaceflight participants are always "if no other need for that seat arises" scenarios.  The paying UAE citizen will be bumped to a later flight if/when this purchase agreement goes through.
« Last Edit: 02/15/2019 09:40 pm by ChrisGebhardt »

Offline ChrisGebhardt

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What is confusing, is that Soyuz MS-14 (№743) is to be launched without crew. I guess the contracts will be amended in the future, and could explain the absence of №746.

Soyuz MS-14 is a planned - and somewhat mandated - uncrewed, cargo-carrying Soyuz mission to ISS to validated the Soyuz crew craft's abort and flight systems flying on a Soyuz 2.1a rocket for the first time.
« Last Edit: 02/15/2019 09:44 pm by ChrisGebhardt »

Offline cd-slam

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This news has me scratching my head. As I understood it, there is already an American training for Soyuz MS-15, Chris Cassidy. His flight was to be bartered for a Russian seat on a Commercial crew flight. If this Commercial Crew flight won't be ready in time, I could understand why NASA would pay for the flight, but not why Al Mansouri has to be dropped.

Paying for a seat on the April 2020 flight makes even less sense. Yes there is an empty seat but why should NASA have to pay for it? Commercial crew basically HAS to be ready by then since only two Soyuz flights are planned for 2020. What happens to the Russian seat on the Commercial crew flight in this case?

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Online Roy_H

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I have been reading remarks like "Boeing has no chance of launching crew in August" with suggestions it would more likely be end of year. However I haven't gotten the impression that the uncrewed OFT would slip that much. I don't see the argument for a longer time between OFT and CFT. SpaceX may fly both DM1 and DM2 this year, but unlikely a crewed mission, so from Space pov a seat on this fall Soyuz is necessary, but Boeing Starliner CFT is expected to become a full duration crew flight and remain docked for the typical 6 month duration. So the need for these contingency seats is entirely dependent on Boeing.

Point of interest, if Starliner CFT arrives at the ISS before Dragon DM2 (almost a certainty at this point) and Starliner remains docked, for full mission duration but DM2 stays for just a few days, then who gets to take home the flag? First one back or first one there?
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Offline Lar

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Point of interest, if Starliner CFT arrives at the ISS before Dragon DM2 (almost a certainty at this point) and Starliner remains docked, for full mission duration but DM2 stays for just a few days, then who gets to take home the flag? First one back or first one there?
Why is that almost a certainty? Maybe you could share your thoughts at the schedule analysis thread.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=37802
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Offline yg1968

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https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=623824de4ca36a33ca5242b2acee79e5
Quote
NASA is considering contracting with the State Space Corporation "Roscosmos" for these services on a sole source basis for two (2) Soyuz seats and associated services to the International Space Station (ISS) on the Russian Soyuz spacecraft vehicle. This transportation would be for one crewmember in the Fall of 2019 and one crewmember in the Spring of 2020.

I wonder if NASA & Roscosmos could barder for UAE seat & put them put on a commercial crew vehicle?

NASA has zero - absolutely none - interesting in having people pay them for seats for spaceflights to the ISS.  And since NASA is paying SpaceX and Boeing for the seats on Dragon and Starliner, a spaceflight participant is not going to happen.

EDIT (to add): Roscosmos spaceflight participants are always "if no other need for that seat arises" scenarios.  The paying UAE citizen will be bumped to a later flight if/when this purchase agreement goes through.

There has been talks of NASA allowing commercial crew companies to sell the 5th seat on the commercial crew flights to the ISS. It was discussed by Phil McAlister at the last NAC HEO meeting. There would be a fee for the spaceflight participant's stay at the ISS but the amount of that fee has yet to be established (the fee for staying at the ISS was discussed by Kathryn Lueders at the next to last HEO NAC meeting).
« Last Edit: 02/16/2019 03:54 am by yg1968 »

Offline docmordrid

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>
SpaceX may fly both DM1 and DM2 this year, but unlikely a crewed mission,
>

DM-2 is by definition a crewed mission, or are you talking about a PCM (Post Certification Mission)?
DM

Online daedalus1

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A roundup of manned spaceflight,
The most powerful and richest nation on earth after landing people on the moon and launching the most sophisticated and largest spacecraft (shuttle), cannot on launch people into low earth orbit on a capsule.
Russia having put the first human into orbit more than half a century ago is still using 1960's design.
China, the second largest economy on earth has flown crew a handful of times in more than a decade. Using a copy of the old Soviet design.
The EU (ESA), doesn't have any manned spacecraft.
It is dismal.

Offline bulkmail

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Point of interest, if Starliner CFT arrives at the ISS before Dragon DM2 (almost a certainty at this point) and Starliner remains docked, for full mission duration but DM2 stays for just a few days, then who gets to take home the flag? First one back or first one there?

I think it's logical the first one up gets the flag.

What happened with the aborted seat in Soyuz MS-10? Will Roscosmos/Energia compensate Boeing/NASA for it?

Offline woods170

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A roundup of manned spaceflight,
The most powerful and richest nation on earth after landing people on the moon and launching the most sophisticated and largest spacecraft (shuttle), cannot on launch people into low earth orbit on a capsule.
Russia having put the first human into orbit more than half a century ago is still using 1960's design.
China, the second largest economy on earth has flown crew a handful of times in more than a decade. Using a copy of the old Soviet design.
The EU (ESA), doesn't have any manned spacecraft.
It is dismal.

Emphasis mine.

That's by ESA's own choice.

Offline Lars-J

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A roundup of manned spaceflight,
The most powerful and richest nation on earth after landing people on the moon and launching the most sophisticated and largest spacecraft (shuttle), cannot on launch people into low earth orbit on a capsule.
Russia having put the first human into orbit more than half a century ago is still using 1960's design.
China, the second largest economy on earth has flown crew a handful of times in more than a decade. Using a copy of the old Soviet design.
The EU (ESA), doesn't have any manned spacecraft.
It is dismal.

Emphasis mine.

That's by ESA's own choice.

How is that different than the others? Were China and Russia forced into their current situations? ALL countries situation regarding manned spaceflight is by their own choices and priorities.

Online Roy_H

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>
SpaceX may fly both DM1 and DM2 this year, but unlikely a crewed mission,
>

DM-2 is by definition a crewed mission, or are you talking about a PCM (Post Certification Mission)?

Yes, I should have worded that better.
"If we don't achieve re-usability, I will consider SpaceX to be a failure." - Elon Musk

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