Author Topic: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...  (Read 2747 times)

Offline Tywin

I ask, how big are the space companies by employees...I think is maybe one of the best form to compare, this companys, because some are in the market, other not, other have some kind of valuation for the VC...

Who are the biggest space companies in the actuality by employees?

For example we know SpaceX have 7000 employees...Maxar Technologies, 6500...OHB SE, 2500...Blue Origin 1500 and growth...but..How much have Boeing, LM, NOC, Airbus, etc in their space division?

How much have in the actuality RSC Energia, Samara Progress, Khrunichev, etc? The wiki, don't show information very actual...

It's SpaceX the biggest space company by employees in the world right now?

« Last Edit: 01/09/2019 05:52 pm by Tywin »

Offline Tywin

Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #1 on: 01/10/2019 02:51 pm »
SITAEL, for example right now they have 380 employees...

http://www.sitael.com/

Avio Spa have more the 900 employees...

http://www.avio.com/en/

http://avio-data.teleborsa.it/2018%2fInvestor-Presentation-December-2018_20181202_081341.pdf

« Last Edit: 01/10/2019 02:52 pm by Tywin »

Offline whitelancer64

Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #2 on: 01/10/2019 03:13 pm »
Boeing employs over 50,000 people. Most of these people work on airplanes, not space-related stuff.

I've heard their space-related division is about 4,000 people, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline Tywin

Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #3 on: 01/10/2019 03:29 pm »
Boeing employs over 50,000 people. Most of these people work on airplanes, not space-related stuff.

I've heard their space-related division is about 4,000 people, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.

Yeah exactly it's the same problem with  Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Airbus, Thales Alenia, Leonardo, etc  maybe in their investor presentation their communicate, how many employees they have in their space division...

And with the Russia, we have the problem of the language, and their don't usualy show info very actual...

Well Thales Alenia Space, joint-venture between Thales Group and Leonardo...in the wiki say their have 7900 employees (2016) :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thales_Alenia_Space

And Telespazio Spa with the same partners, 2500 employees...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telespazio
« Last Edit: 01/10/2019 03:33 pm by Tywin »

Offline Tywin

Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #4 on: 01/10/2019 03:44 pm »
Well in this news, Thales Alenia Space, say this:

Quote
"Drawing on over 40 years of experience and a unique combination of skills, expertise and cultures, Thales Alenia Space delivers cost-effective solutions for telecommunications, navigation, Earth observation, environmental management, exploration, science and orbital infrastructures. Governments and private industry alike count on Thales Alenia Space to design satellite-based systems that provide anytime, anywhere connections and positioning, monitor our planet, enhance management of its resources, and explore our Solar System and beyond. Thales Alenia Space sees space as a new horizon, helping to build a better, more sustainable life on Earth. A joint venture between Thales (67%) and Leonardo (33%), Thales Alenia Space also teams up with Telespazio to form the parent companiesí Space Alliance, which offers a complete range of services. Thales Alenia Space posted consolidated revenues of 2.6 billion euros in 2017 and has 7,980 employees in nine countries. www.thalesaleniaspace.com"

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/space/press-release/thales-alenia-space-and-european-space-agency-sign-new-tranche

Ok, with this information, until we know more about the Russian companies and the other space division of giant companies like Boeing, LM, Airbus...

Thales Alenia Space is the number one, by employees in the world, right now...
« Last Edit: 01/10/2019 03:47 pm by Tywin »

Offline Tywin

Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #5 on: 01/10/2019 03:58 pm »
Actualization the ranking  :D

Arianne Group, a Joint-venture between Airbus and Safran, is maybe the biggest...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArianeGroup

Over 9000 employees  :o

https://www.ariane.group/en/about-us/company-profil/

Offline Tywin

Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #6 on: 01/10/2019 04:15 pm »
Interesting, the ArianeSpace company (ArianeGroup) have more than the double employees than ULA and their don't launch much more rockets... ???

ULA: 3400 employees (2016)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Launch_Alliance

O even less:

Quote
We guarantee assured access to space and fuel local economies with our nation wide team of nearly 2,500 employees.

https://www.ulalaunch.com/about
« Last Edit: 01/10/2019 04:20 pm by Tywin »

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #7 on: 01/10/2019 04:31 pm »
Interesting, the ArianeSpace company (ArianeGroup) have more than the double employees than ULA and their don't launch much more rockets... ???

ULA: 3400 employees (2016)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Launch_Alliance

O even less:

Quote
We guarantee assured access to space and fuel local economies with our nation wide team of nearly 2,500 employees.

https://www.ulalaunch.com/about

ULA is not counting the personnel from sub-contractors. Who are essential to keep ULA running.

Wonder if those same personnel in ArianeSpace is contracted out or in-house.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #8 on: 01/10/2019 05:00 pm »
Actualization the ranking  :D

Arianne Group, a Joint-venture between Airbus and Safran, is maybe the biggest...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArianeGroup

Over 9000 employees  :o

https://www.ariane.group/en/about-us/company-profil/

Ariane Group also produces satellite parts, and has a contract for submarine-launched ballistic missiles for the French navy. So there again, not that total number is devoted to just building rocket launch vehicles, there's other things as well.

That's why it's so hard to make a 1-1 comparison.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline Rismagi

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Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #9 on: 01/11/2019 03:48 am »
Energia (Soyuz and Progress spacecraft) - 7 791 (2017)

Khrunichev (Proton, Angara) - 25 000 (2017)

Progress (Soyuz rocket) - 17 703

Energomash (engines) - 4 100

Offline Tywin

Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #10 on: 01/11/2019 04:15 am »
Energia (Soyuz and Progress spacecraft) - 7 791 (2017)

Khrunichev (Proton, Angara) - 25 000 (2017)

Progress (Soyuz rocket) - 17 703

Energomash (engines) - 4 100

Wow, amazing job Rismagi, for found all this information...

Impress all the employees that have Krunichev...3 time more than SpaceX!!! incredible...and their are now in the worst situation of the big 3 of Russia space sector, with all the problems with the Proton, Angara, and Nauka...

Interesting to, Samara have the double the employees than Energia, I always thinking was the contrary...

Offline Tywin

Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #11 on: 01/11/2019 04:43 am »
I actualizate the ranking at moment:

1-Krunichev: 25000

2-Progress: 17700

3-ArianeGroup: 9000 (but not all this employees work in the space division), Thales Alenia Space: 8000, Energia:7800

4-SpaceX: 7000

5-Maxar Technologies: 6500

6-Energomash: 4400 (http://engine.space/eng/)

7-The space division of the giants, Boeing, LM, Northrop, Airbus, with maybe a numbers of employees between 4000-5000...

8-ULA: 3400

9-OHB SE: 2500, Telespazio Spa: 2500

10-Blue Origin: 1500

11-Avio Spa: 900

12-SITAEL: 380


It's will  be interesting, in the future checking the evolution of this numbers...








« Last Edit: 01/11/2019 04:53 am by Tywin »

Offline Ultrafamicom

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Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #12 on: 01/11/2019 11:27 pm »
Don't forget CASC...
According to a floppy source it has about 173k employees http://www.caifuzhongwen.com/fortune500/gongsi/global500/2018/669.htm

Offline high road

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Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #13 on: 01/12/2019 10:24 am »
I ask, how big are the space companies by employees...I think is maybe one of the best form to compare, this companys, because some are in the market, other not, other have some kind of valuation for the VC...

Who are the biggest space companies in the actuality by employees?

For example we know SpaceX have 7000 employees...Maxar Technologies, 6500...OHB SE, 2500...Blue Origin 1500 and growth...but..How much have Boeing, LM, NOC, Airbus, etc in their space division?

How much have in the actuality RSC Energia, Samara Progress, Khrunichev, etc? The wiki, don't show information very actual...

It's SpaceX the biggest space company by employees in the world right now?


ULA is not counting the personnel from sub-contractors. Who are essential to keep ULA running.

Wonder if those same personnel in ArianeSpace is contracted out or in-house.


Ariane Group also produces satellite parts, and has a contract for submarine-launched ballistic missiles for the French navy. So there again, not that total number is devoted to just building rocket launch vehicles, there's other things as well.

That's why it's so hard to make a 1-1 comparison.

What exactly are you trying to compare? Given that subcontractor personnel may or may not be accounted for, that there might be non-space related personnel in the numbers, and that there might be personnel in the numbers working on other space related things than rockets, what does the size of their workforce tell you? And there's more. Some companies might be more focused on automating the production process, meaning they could have a high number of employees for few launches, but there is basically zero growth in workforce as the number of launches increases exponentially.

Don't get me wrong, it can be interesting. If we see the size of the workforce of succesful launch companies evolving towards the size of the workforce of oldspace, that'll be a clear sign that oldspace was not as inefficient as rumour would have it.

IMO, VC valuation is the best way to compare the companies. That'll tell you how much they'll be disrupting/adapting to/stand their ground on the market in a few years. The problem is that not all of them have a VC valuation ;)

Also: how about the Chinese? They're always the elephant in the room when talking about space companies, I feel. They did launch over a third of all orbital rockets last year. Not even all American companies put together managed to launch a third of all orbital rockets last year.
« Last Edit: 01/12/2019 10:32 am by high road »

Offline imprezive

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Offline ZachF

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Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #15 on: 01/13/2019 04:47 pm »

Also: how about the Chinese? They're always the elephant in the room when talking about space companies, I feel. They did launch over a third of all orbital rockets last year. Not even all American companies put together managed to launch a third of all orbital rockets last year.

China definitely did well on launch cadence but SpaceX handily beat China in terms of tonnage to orbit. About 1/3rd of China's launches were small (<1500kg) sats to SSO, and combined were about equal to one SX Iridium launch.

I have been working on adjusting tonnage to space by dV, and it looks like SpaceX delivered about 50% more adjusted tonnage to space than China, and the US total figure was about double China this year.
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Offline Tywin

Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #16 on: 01/13/2019 05:59 pm »
Don't forget CASC...
According to a floppy source it has about 173k employees http://www.caifuzhongwen.com/fortune500/gongsi/global500/2018/669.htm

IF we considerate CASC as a company yes be far it's the biggest be employees, if we considerate as part of CNSA then no...

What the people think about CASC?
« Last Edit: 01/13/2019 06:00 pm by Tywin »

Offline Tywin

Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #17 on: 01/13/2019 06:00 pm »
Rocket Lab is 380. Source: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12182859

Nice, I actualizate:

1-Krunichev: 25000

2-Progress: 17700

3-ArianeGroup: 9000 (but not all this employees work in the space division), Thales Alenia Space: 8000, Energia:7800

4-SpaceX: 7000

5-Maxar Technologies: 6500

6-Energomash: 4400 (http://engine.space/eng/)

7-The space division of the giants, Boeing, LM, Northrop, Airbus, with maybe a numbers of employees between 4000-5000...

8-ULA: 3400

9-OHB SE: 2500, Telespazio Spa: 2500

10-Blue Origin: 1500

11-Avio Spa: 900

12-SITAEL: 380, Rocket Lab: 380



« Last Edit: 01/13/2019 06:01 pm by Tywin »

Offline luhai167

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Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #18 on: 01/13/2019 07:00 pm »
Don't forget CASC...
According to a floppy source it has about 173k employees http://www.caifuzhongwen.com/fortune500/gongsi/global500/2018/669.htm

IF we considerate CASC as a company yes be far it's the biggest be employees, if we considerate as part of CNSA then no...

What the people think about CASC?

CASC should be considered a company, if you consider the other Chinese SOEs as companies. It however is not part of CNSA, as CNSA is really a tiny agency that simply coordinate between various partners (such as CSAC, Chinese academy of science, the military on manned program, other Chinese government agencies, foreign governments) in civilian space matters.

However, CASC also have large part of it doesn't have anything to with space, since it is in charge of commercial utilization of space technologies. For example they design and manufacture pumps for the chemical industry, various carbon fiber parts for the transportation and wind power industry, disc brakes for automobiles, photovoltaics for non-space applications etc and strangely a line of dietary supplement brands under the advertisement of it being used by astronaut training program....

If we just consider the space bits, CALT has about 30k employees, SAST has about 20k and finally CAST has about 10k. This makes for a total of 60k employees, keep in mind these company also design and manufacture various missiles for the Chinese military, from ICBMs to Air Defense.

And even at this level of specification, CALT still have divisions that makes trucks and wind turbines.
http://www.calt.com/n840/c5351/content.html
http://www.calt.com/n840/c5352/content.html

SAST has division that makes solar power modules, automobile parts and industrial automation.
http://www.sast.net/product/207/


CAST make industrial computers for the rail industry.
http://www.cast.cn/Item/list.asp?id=1712
also they still do dietary supplements...
http://www.cast.cn/Item/list.asp?id=1818
« Last Edit: 01/13/2019 07:41 pm by luhai167 »

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: The Biggest Space Companies by employees...
« Reply #19 on: 01/14/2019 08:12 am »
4-SpaceX: 7000

Will soon be 6300 with the recently announced 10% cut.
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