Author Topic: Muscle atrophy just use elastic  (Read 747 times)

Offline Bismuth

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Muscle atrophy just use elastic
« on: 01/09/2019 06:30 am »
Topic.  Why don't they just create elastic slings to keep tension.  They just move their limbs or with back to a wall try to lift up.  Ionno. 

This is my first thread, expect a couple in a row.  I have a few questions.

Offline eeergo

Re: Muscle atrophy just use elastic
« Reply #1 on: 01/09/2019 10:32 am »
That's precisely what they do on ISS (and Shuttle and previous space stations).


Welcome to the forum, but please don't bomb-post several new topics like that - even if you're trying to ask interesting questions, with a bit of proper prior research, it makes you look like a spammer. Also, bear in mind just a few forum boards down you have a Q&A Section for just this purpose.
-DaviD-

Offline SWGlassPit

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Re: Muscle atrophy just use elastic
« Reply #2 on: 01/09/2019 04:42 pm »
They use a device called ARED to accomplish this.

See the writeup and the video: .
« Last Edit: 01/09/2019 04:43 pm by SWGlassPit »

Offline SciNews

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Re: Muscle atrophy just use elastic
« Reply #3 on: 01/10/2019 11:57 am »
Long-Duration Space Missions Have Lasting Effects on Spinal Muscles
http://home.lww.com/news.entry.html/2019/01/09/long-duration_space-wqlu.html
Quote
Astronauts who spend several months on the International Space Station have significant reductions in the size and density of paraspinal muscles of the trunk after returning to Earth
Research paper: Negative Effects of Long-Duration Spaceflight on Paraspinal Muscle Morphology
http://dx.doi.org/10.1097/BRS.0000000000002959
Quote
Both CSA and attenuation of paraspinal muscles decline after long-duration spaceflight, but while CSA returns to pre-flight values within 1 year of recovery, PS and QL muscle attenuation remain reduced even 24 years post-flight. Spaceflight-induced changes in paraspinal muscle morphology may contribute to back pain commonly reported in astronauts.

Offline Lampyridae

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Re: Muscle atrophy just use elastic
« Reply #4 on: 01/10/2019 01:05 pm »
Topic.  Why don't they just create elastic slings to keep tension.  They just move their limbs or with back to a wall try to lift up.  Ionno. 

This is my first thread, expect a couple in a row.  I have a few questions.

Gravity isn't just about resistance. Without gravity, fluid shifts in the body - altering all kinds of important processes. Many in the first few days of zero-g experience a headache as fluid rushes to your head. Then you pee and pee until you've lost about 2 litres of fluid, and that's part of the space adaptation procedure. So already funny things are happening with your body.

A gravity field requires near-constant exertion of various muscle groups, including ones which rarely get targeted during exercise because you substitute with other, larger muscles to achieve the effect. Skylab inadvertently worked the core muscles of the astronauts because the consoles had chairs, which in zero g forced them to constantly tense their abdominal muscles to stay in the seat. When they came back, their abs were the only thing that had either stayed the same or actually increased in strength.

Finally, cells can actually sense gravity, and the lack of it also even cause chemical processes to change. All sorts of DNA changes happen (not mutation, but parts of DNA effectively turn "off" or change how they work). Bones leak calcium into the bloodstream and all sorts of other things happen. Hair gets thicker and rougher, skin gets thinner and drier.

Add in some cosmic radiation, and there's a huge cascade of effects that we still don't really understand, which is why astronauts continue to subject themselves to all sorts of tests up there. Recently, it was discovered that zero g was affecting the shape of eyeballs and causing astronauts' eyesight to permanently deteriotate (getting the data for that basically involves a nieedle puncturing behind the eyeball).

The only countermeasure which has been shown to be effective at countering at least some of these changes is artificial gravity (from the very little animal data we have). Exercise (including elastic bands) slows but does not stop the changes. And for elastic bands to be worn every day to simulate body weight in some way, they would have to be very heavy. Basically, stretching them would be the equivalent of lifting your own weight.

Now the Pingvin (penguin) suits used by cosmonauts did impart about half body weight through this method, but they were hot and uncomfortable, and in typical cosmonaut fashion what they didn't like, they didn't put up with and cut some of the larger elastic cords. There is no real data on how effective these are at preserving bone mass and muscle tone.
« Last Edit: 01/11/2019 07:55 am by Lampyridae »
SKYLON... The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen's preferred surface-to-orbit conveyance.

Offline Lampyridae

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Re: Muscle atrophy just use elastic
« Reply #5 on: 01/11/2019 07:52 am »
...and as usual some person much smarter than me with specialised knowledge has figured something out. The Gravity Loading Countermeasure Skinsuit breaks up the differential loads into tiny chunks instead of having one massive elastic band pulling your shoulders down to your feet. To date, I'm not aware of this being flown on the ISS.



https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/73dd/f27156524f206e862065394da00aa4cfdff5.pdf
« Last Edit: 01/11/2019 07:53 am by Lampyridae »
SKYLON... The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen's preferred surface-to-orbit conveyance.

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: Muscle atrophy just use elastic
« Reply #6 on: 01/11/2019 11:17 am »
Why don't they just create elastic slings to keep tension.

Soviet/Russian cosmonauts use this system since 1975. It is called Pingvin suit.

http://www.zvezda-npp.ru/ru/node/105
Nicolas PILLET
Kosmonavtika : The French site on Russian Space

Offline Bismuth

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Re: Muscle atrophy just use elastic
« Reply #7 on: 01/21/2019 04:02 am »
...and as usual some person much smarter than me with specialised knowledge has figured something out. The Gravity Loading Countermeasure Skinsuit breaks up the differential loads into tiny chunks instead of having one massive elastic band pulling your shoulders down to your feet. To date, I'm not aware of this being flown on the ISS.



https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/73dd/f27156524f206e862065394da00aa4cfdff5.pdf

This is precisely what I'm talking about.  A whole suit you can just throw on a few hours and get your exercise, simulating gravity.   Sadly zero-g seems to harm humans much more than just muscle atrophy, like hardening arteries.  Maybe we won't figure it out until we get some huge ring thing like on 2001, where they can sleep in the ring.

Offline nacnud

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Re: Muscle atrophy just use elastic
« Reply #8 on: 01/21/2019 04:28 am »
Versions of the suit mentioned above have flown to the ISS on at least two occasions. I know it was still in development as of last year.
« Last Edit: 01/21/2019 04:29 am by nacnud »

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: Muscle atrophy just use elastic
« Reply #9 on: 01/21/2019 10:28 pm »
I know of one occasion, with Danish astronaut Andreas Mogensen. That was a complete disaster!
He had a short ~10day mission. A direct handover were he went up with the new crew and went back down with the old crew.
ESA had planned for him to ware the suite while doing other experiments. But the suit was so uncomfortable he couldn't do the other experiments. So they paused the other experiments so he could get out of the suite. A lot of his time was waisted.
« Last Edit: 01/21/2019 10:30 pm by Rik ISS-fan »

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