Author Topic: Developing the BFS - Phase 1 Big Falcon Hopper (BFH) Discussion - THREAD 2  (Read 216366 times)

Offline rsdavis9

Or assembled from pieces on site.

Elon did say they are building components in san pedro.
With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
Same engines. Design once. Same vehicle. Design once. Reusable. Build once.

Offline DistantTemple

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I think that part of the reason some people have issues with recognizing the Hopper as a potential flight article is that they haven't come to terms with the fact that SpaceX appears to have transitioned from "rocket science" to "rocket engineering" or even "rocket mechanics."

It's a completely different worldview.

Hopper is being built in a "rocketshipyard" instead of a factory. That's probably why it's hard for some to take it seriously.

But the orbital test vehicle is being built in a factory.
Since the factory hasn't any plans to materialize before June... sections of SS-OTV are being built in a dockside tent. (Ok a fabric sprung structure building)

Its a rather good democratization of rocket building.
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Or assembled from pieces on site.

Elon did say they are building components in san pedro.
True - but it's hard to imagine those pieces not also being 9m in diameter. I just can't imagine a longitudinal weld.
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Offline rsdavis9

Or assembled from pieces on site.

Elon did say they are building components in san pedro.
True - but it's hard to imagine those pieces not also being 9m in diameter. I just can't imagine a longitudinal weld.

Well the shell is the big thing.
If you can assemble the shell in san pedro in a tent whats so different about boca chica in a tent?
With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
Same engines. Design once. Same vehicle. Design once. Reusable. Build once.

Offline WindyCity

I nominate "it's settled then" as the name of the first people carrying ship.
Musk would probably like that. It has an Ian M. Banks Culture ring to it, following in the wake of OCISLY and JRTI.

Offline Cinder

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Can someone rule out (will delete if this was already established):

"Outsourcing" the simpler parts of the BFH to the water tower company allowed cheaper mfg (they build water tower vs spaceships), faster mfg (no/little SpaceX staff req'd), altogether offering a sooner photo op (whether or not a coincidence with the layoffs bad press) as well as a bone to the public (e.g. Star Trek spaceship open air shipyard, done before the remaining secret sauce happens behind steel/tent/etc).
 
It fits with "unforeseen issues" and the unusual (?) fit issues we saw on stacking.  And with a team of SpaceX staff visiting the work.
« Last Edit: 01/14/2019 09:21 pm by Cinder »
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Offline jpo234

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I nominate "it's settled then" as the name of the first people carrying ship.
Musk would probably like that. It has an Ian M. Banks Culture ring to it, following in the wake of OCISLY and JRTI.
Hello. "Heart of Gold".

https://www.space.com/34220-spacex-first-mars-ship-hitchhikers-guide-galaxy.html
« Last Edit: 01/14/2019 09:25 pm by jpo234 »
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Cinder

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It's already established that Musk has pet faves (H'sGttG, Culture ships) for spacecraft names.  It also doesn't belong in this thread.  Could the discussion happen in its own new thread?  Even if it's a short discussion.
Or in one of the previous threads.  Searched and only found these two:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31497.msg1032572#msg1032572 (2014)
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43887.msg1729417#msg1729417 (2017)

Edit/Lar: Roger that. Ixnay on the Amingnay discussions...
« Last Edit: 01/15/2019 04:38 pm by Lar »
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Offline tenkendojo

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One large issue from the perspective of anything being build of the BFR scale away from Boca Chick is how does it get to the site. Nomadd, could you weigh in if the existing roadways from the Port of Brownsville could accommodate a 9m diameter object - possibly with some temporary power line removal, etc, or is it not realistic without the new roadway?


If not realistic then don't count on seeing a higher fidelity craft showing up before that roadway has been built...

The Orbital testing version of BFR/Starship will be launched from Cape Canaveral, and will most likely use the same method as transporting the Saturn V components, via sea barges.

Offline RobLynn

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One large issue from the perspective of anything being build of the BFR scale away from Boca Chick is how does it get to the site. Nomadd, could you weigh in if the existing roadways from the Port of Brownsville could accommodate a 9m diameter object - possibly with some temporary power line removal, etc, or is it not realistic without the new roadway?


If not realistic then don't count on seeing a higher fidelity craft showing up before that roadway has been built...

SpaceX will need water access for big stuff at Boca Chica - they must have plans for a pier and possibly breakwater at coast of end of Boca Chica Blvd next to their facility.

In the meantime they can pull a flat bottomed barge in off sea and up beach using a heavy earthmover or winch?  Shift onto oversized trailer using a crane and pull to site (they need that trailer anyway to move hopper to launch site) and recover barge to sea using a tug.  The beach is only a few 10's of meters wide, and tidal range only ~0.34m

The glass is neither half full nor half empty, it's just twice as big as it needs to be.

Offline IntoTheVoid

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One large issue from the perspective of anything being build of the BFR scale away from Boca Chick is how does it get to the site. Nomadd, could you weigh in if the existing roadways from the Port of Brownsville could accommodate a 9m diameter object - possibly with some temporary power line removal, etc, or is it not realistic without the new roadway?


If not realistic then don't count on seeing a higher fidelity craft showing up before that roadway has been built...

The Orbital testing version of BFR/Starship will be launched from Cape Canaveral, and will most likely use the same method as transporting the Saturn V components, via sea barges.
Welcome, but...
That is your highly speculative opinion and should be labeled as such. Unless you're an insider, which has not been established.

Offline envy887

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One large issue from the perspective of anything being build of the BFR scale away from Boca Chick is how does it get to the site. Nomadd, could you weigh in if the existing roadways from the Port of Brownsville could accommodate a 9m diameter object - possibly with some temporary power line removal, etc, or is it not realistic without the new roadway?


If not realistic then don't count on seeing a higher fidelity craft showing up before that roadway has been built...

The Orbital testing version of BFR/Starship will be launched from Cape Canaveral, and will most likely use the same method as transporting the Saturn V components, via sea barges.
Welcome, but...
That is your highly speculative opinion and should be labeled as such. Unless you're an insider, which has not been established.

That is where SpaceX has shown it launching from, in both 2016 and 2017 archeticture animations, and in the dearmoon presentation. The dearmoon flight plan graphic shows launch from Florida.

Any other launch site is highly speculative. The Cape is the only one we know for sure that SpaceX is thinking about using.

Offline ThereIWas3

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Seems to me that where orbital and #dearmoon launches happen need not be the same as where the high altitude and supersonic tests happen.  Elon has already said that the latter will be from Texas.
"If you want to build a ship, don’t drum up people to collect wood and don’t assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea" - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Offline Zed_Noir

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I nominate "it's settled then" as the name of the first people carrying ship.
Musk would probably like that. It has an Ian M. Banks Culture ring to it, following in the wake of OCISLY and JRTI.
Hello. "Heart of Gold".

https://www.space.com/34220-spacex-first-mars-ship-hitchhikers-guide-galaxy.html

Sigh.  ???

The "Heart of Gold " will be the first crewed Starship to land on Mars. Musk will name the first crewed LEO bound development Starship something else.

Will remind folks we are using the Golden Rule for the naming of SpaceX vehicles.

The Golden Rule is "Those who have the most Gold makes the Rules".

In the case of SpaceX it is the one with the most voting shares. Which I reckon is the SX CTO. He gets to name the SpaceX vehicles as he pleases.

Of course you might be able to persuade the SX CTO in what to name the initial crewed Starship by underwriting a few test flights. Including the test vehicles.

Online docmordrid

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SpaceX will need water access for big stuff at Boca Chica - they must have plans for a pier and possibly breakwater at coast of end of Boca Chica Blvd next to their facility.
>

Covered; a road is to be built between the harbor and Highway 4, which runs next to the SpaceX facilities.

Link...
DM

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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SpaceX will need water access for big stuff at Boca Chica - they must have plans for a pier and possibly breakwater at coast of end of Boca Chica Blvd next to their facility.
>

Covered; a road is to be built between the harbor and Highway 4, which runs next to the SpaceX facilities.

Link...
Exactly -  but it needs to be built before large stuff can be moved from the port. And for those saying they can use a barge to shore, that isn’t realistic nor viable. A real transport plan with real logistics needs to be put into place before you will see real hardware show up at BC.
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Offline Nomadd

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SpaceX will need water access for big stuff at Boca Chica - they must have plans for a pier and possibly breakwater at coast of end of Boca Chica Blvd next to their facility.
>

Covered; a road is to be built between the harbor and Highway 4, which runs next to the SpaceX facilities.

Link...
Not by June.
 They might make it down 511. There are about 40 power lines crossing the road, but all low voltage. It would just take a little work on the corner lot to cut the corner onto Hwy 4.
 As with a lot of things, people tend to greatly underestimate what a pier would entail here.
« Last Edit: 01/14/2019 11:05 pm by Nomadd »
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline RobLynn

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Not by June.
 They might make it down 511. There are about 40 power lines crossing the road, but all low voltage. It would just take a little work on the corner lot to cut the corner onto Hwy 4.
 As with a lot of things, people tend to greatly underestimate what a pier would entail here.

Paying for the lines to be under-grounded and any other road upgrades necessary is probably the cheapest option then
The glass is neither half full nor half empty, it's just twice as big as it needs to be.

Offline IntoTheVoid

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One large issue from the perspective of anything being build of the BFR scale away from Boca Chick is how does it get to the site. Nomadd, could you weigh in if the existing roadways from the Port of Brownsville could accommodate a 9m diameter object - possibly with some temporary power line removal, etc, or is it not realistic without the new roadway?


If not realistic then don't count on seeing a higher fidelity craft showing up before that roadway has been built...

The Orbital testing version of BFR/Starship will be launched from Cape Canaveral, and will most likely use the same method as transporting the Saturn V components, via sea barges.
Welcome, but...
That is your highly speculative opinion and should be labeled as such. Unless you're an insider, which has not been established.

That is where SpaceX has shown it launching from, in both 2016 and 2017 archeticture animations, and in the dearmoon presentation. The dearmoon flight plan graphic shows launch from Florida.

Any other launch site is highly speculative. The Cape is the only one we know for sure that SpaceX is thinking about using.
Actually, at about 1:19 in the DearMoon presentation he specifically says that they haven't decided on where the first orbital launches will be from. And the only specific mention he makes at that time is of a floating platform, without specifying where that platform might or might not be located.

 
« Last Edit: 01/14/2019 11:51 pm by IntoTheVoid »

Online Lars-J

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Seems to me that where orbital and #dearmoon launches happen need not be the same as where the high altitude and supersonic tests happen.  Elon has already said that the latter will be from Texas.

Exactly. If supersonic hand high speed test will happen at Boca Chica, it won't be with the hopper. No, the next test article being constructed (the one they are aiming to complete by June in San Pedro) will ALSO be flown at Boca Chica.

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