Starlink : Satellite Spotting

[OxCartMark]

For links to other Starlink discussion threads, launch threads, and FCC filings take a look at the Starlink Index Thread


As I write this we've had the first set of 60 Starlink satellites launched and they're in a dramatic train formation.  As is usual postings about ground observations of those satellites is in the discussion thread for the launch that put them there.  But this isn't a usual satellite launch as there are 60 observable satellites and there will be numerous additional ~60 satellite launches.  It will quickly get awkward to have to determine what launch the Starlink satellites you observe went up on so you can post in the right launch discussion thread.  So here is a new thread to be the central discussion point for all observations of flying Starlinks; TLEs, predicted sighting times and locations, missing satellites, re-entries, re-positioning, sighting reports, photographic images etc.

edit/gongora: This post was really written on May 26, 2019 but I'm fudging things a bit to allow other posts to be merged in here.

[ChrisC]

Flight Club
@flightclubio

You can import and plot TLEs in Flight Club without being a Patron! Get out and spot #Starlink tonight in just over 30 minutes!

TLE here: http://www.satobs.org/seesat/May-2019/0193.html …
Copy+paste it into here: https://www2.flightclub.io/dashboard

Revised TLE from Marco Langbroek

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/May-2019/0228.html

STARLINK TRAIN
1 70002U 19999A   19144.94244262 0.00000000  00000-0  00000+0 0    00
2 70002  53.2862 172.0411 0001500  47.9022 312.2115 15.45905383    01

I tried this and the results aren't really making any sense to me.  The earth isn't rotating under the Starlink plane, and the orbit seems to jump around every couple days.  (I realize that they will change orbits over time, but this single TLE won't reflect that, since it's just a single orbit definition.)

[Semmel]

Flight Club
@flightclubio

You can import and plot TLEs in Flight Club without being a Patron! Get out and spot #Starlink tonight in just over 30 minutes!

TLE here: http://www.satobs.org/seesat/May-2019/0193.html …
Copy+paste it into here: https://www2.flightclub.io/dashboard

Revised TLE from Marco Langbroek

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/May-2019/0228.html

STARLINK TRAIN
1 70002U 19999A   19144.94244262 0.00000000  00000-0  00000+0 0    00
2 70002  53.2862 172.0411 0001500  47.9022 312.2115 15.45905383    01

I tried this and the results aren't really making any sense to me.  The earth isn't rotating under the Starlink plane, and the orbit seems to jump around every couple days.  (I realize that they will change orbits over time, but this single TLE won't reflect that, since it's just a single orbit definition.)

I have the same problem CrisC. I have the TLEs but I cant do anything with them. FlightClub.io doesnt do what I want. Its rarely rotating the earth or even showing the location of the sats. There is something wrong with their web page on my computer running Firefox. Then there are various programs. I have Heavens Above but it cant import TLEs. I have Stellarium but it cant import TLEs manually. I tried JSatTrack but I cant figure out how to import TLEs, must be possible somehow but I am just too confused with it. Then there are several star tracer web pages that either dont have the data our dont allow importing TLEs.

I am very happy that someone postet this link: https://celestrak.com/cesium/orbit-viz.php?tle=/NORAD/elements/starlink.txt&satcat=/pub/satcat.txt&orbits=25&pixelSize=3&samplesPerPeriod=90&referenceFrame=1
somewhere here on NSF. It doesnt tell you if your lighting conditions or if the satellites are illuminated at their pass but at least they show the path and earth rotates (if that is correct is a different matter). If you are in the northern hemisphere (like me) you can see pretty much all orbits above your horizon the entire night for the next two month. I would guess that you can see starlink up to 2000km/1300NM. They are at 450km height, this should be enough to be above the horizon.

For my location (Berlin in Germany), I have a pass over tonight at around midnight and they would come from the south-west and pass almost overhead. If the clouds go away by then, I have a chance. Good luck!
Of course, I would not trust the timing of these predictions. Their orbit is usually pretty good but the timing might be wrong by several minutes.

[cebri]

Try this site https://www.satflare.com/. Apparently they are going over my house in two hours.

[ChrisC]

Flight Club
@flightclubio

You can import and plot TLEs in Flight Club without being a Patron! Get out and spot #Starlink tonight in just over 30 minutes!

TLE here: http://www.satobs.org/seesat/May-2019/0193.html …
Copy+paste it into here: https://www2.flightclub.io/dashboard

Revised TLE from Marco Langbroek

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/May-2019/0228.html

STARLINK TRAIN
1 70002U 19999A   19144.94244262 0.00000000  00000-0  00000+0 0    00
2 70002  53.2862 172.0411 0001500  47.9022 312.2115 15.45905383    01

I tried this and the results aren't really making any sense to me.  The earth isn't rotating under the Starlink plane, and the orbit seems to jump around every couple days.  (I realize that they will change orbits over time, but this single TLE won't reflect that, since it's just a single orbit definition.)

Thanks Sessel for the suggestions above.  The Celestrak link was posted in the updates thread:

Not sure how accurate it is but https://celestrak.com/cesium/orbit-viz.php?tle=/NORAD/elements/starlink.txt&satcat=/pub/satcat.txt&orbits=25&pixelSize=3&samplesPerPeriod=90&referenceFrame=1

The great thing about it is that it is pulling the latest TLEs that they've got (well, at least what Celesttrak has) so you don't have to enter in.

As you noted, it doesn't show illumination, but at least the orbits and graphics makes sense, unlike the Flightclub.io system.  I've now used that system to suggest when the Starlink train might be visible for me.

For people in the eastern US, there is a flyby over the Atlantic that goes up the eastern seaboard that MIGHT be visible.  Go outside from 9:07pm to 9:17pm (all times Eastern), find a place that has a good view of the southeastern horizon (no trees), FACE SOUTHEAST, and look for something moving slowly from right to left.  I've heard it described as looking like a faint contrail, so don't expect to see a train of bright spots.

Then later there is another fly OVER the eastern US, but again I don't know if it will be illuminated.  Go outside from 10:45pm to 10:55pm and find a place where you can see as much sky as possible.  LOOK UP and scan the entire sky watching for something moving slowly from southwest to northeast.  As above, I've heard it described as looking like a faint contrail, so don't expect to see a train of bright spots.

Try this site https://www.satflare.com/. Apparently they are going over my house in two hours.

Looks like it requires login.  cebri, are you in Spain?

[cebri]

Try this site https://www.satflare.com/. Apparently they are going over my house in two hours.

Looks like it requires login.  cebri, are you in Spain?

Yes. You can login as a guest, go to the satellite tracker, click on the "change satellite" button and you can enter the TLE data there.

[psionedge]

Just go here: https://www.satflare.com/track.asp?q=starlink#TOP

[ChrisC]

Just go here: https://www.satflare.com/track.asp?q=starlink#TOP

Indeed, no login required.  It automatically detected my approximate location (from IP address) and it confirms my reading above of the visibility via the Celestrak info.  Thanks!

[Semmel]

Just go here: https://www.satflare.com/track.asp?q=starlink#TOP

That works very well for me. Thank you!

Question: How can we get this kind of information faster next time? It took 2 days for the web sites to catch up with Starlink. This is great, but the most impressive site would be the first orbits after launch. Is there a way to track them, pretty much immediately after launch? They are not military sats, the orbital information is available, the time of launch is known, there must be a way to know their track, at least roughly and maybe not precise timing but all I need is a 10 minutes window and a direction where to look for them.
I never cared much about this kind of fast tracking and maybe there are other threads on NSF that I am not aware of, if so please point them out to me. The massive squirt of satellites makes this special for me. For the record, I would be interested in the same kind of information for OneWeb if they launch ~30 sats at once.

[pmonta]

The web site n2yo.com also has Starlink pass predictions for any location, including a 10-day table with visible (Sun-illuminated) passes:

https://n2yo.com/

[Semmel]

Just go here: https://www.satflare.com/track.asp?q=starlink#TOP

Just caught them outside. They were 3 minutes past the time the web page predicted (I thought I was too stupid to catch them and almost went inside again). Very beautiful. A bunch of about 40 sats in close formation, a tail of about 10 sats further apart, many in groups of 2 and then occasionally isolated ones. By now, the tail end is much more dispersed than the head of the train and dont form a visual cluster any more. They are around magnitude 2 to 3 I would guess from visual. But because they are so many, they are easy to spot. I had a 8x50 binocular handy for this, but I am not sure that I saw all, I counted below 60 but I didnt give the counting great effort either, more enjoying the view.

[cebri]

Argh missed them, my phone's compass was 40º off too .

[modemeagle]

Watched it with my family from North Port Florida at 2112.  The front group is very faint, almost a shadow with a couple singles showing up brightly. They were about 1300 KM away.  We are going to watch it again on 5/27 at 0625 where it should be nearly overhead heading north to south.  Was too dim to even attempt a photograph.
I use www.n2yo.com.

Attached is the track for Monday.

[RocketLover0119]

Confused, am in Tampa Florida, went out to try and watch but saw nothing, go to a tracker and see I missed it.

what tracker is best?

EDIT: check the above tracker and seems good, just confused on how I missed it, looked where the tracker said it would be and saw nothing, even with glasses 

[DigitalMan]

Confused, am in Tampa florida, went out to try and watch but saw nothing, go to a tracker and see i missed it.

what tracker is best?

I took a look earlier and I think the two strings of satellites would pass around 10:30 and 10:50 or so.

[John Alan]

Looks like a pass over eastern USA in about an hour...  FYI
Will take a look and edit this post if I see much... 

On later edit..
Clouded up about dark... nothing to be seen from here... 
There will be other launches... other clusters... No big deal... 

[modemeagle]

Confused, am in Tampa Florida, went out to try and watch but saw nothing, go to a tracker and see I missed it.

what tracker is best?

EDIT: check the above tracker and seems good, just confused on how I missed it, looked where the tracker said it would be and saw nothing, even with glasses 

I only saw it for about 2 minutes so it was very fast and low on the horizon (25 degrees up or so).  Monday morning should be a great view for Florida and the mid west.

[Herb Schaltegger]

For you folks new to satellite spotting and tracking, keep the following points in mind. First, and this is perhaps the most important: pretty much all the commercially-available and public sat-spotting sites rely on the same sets of tracking data (commonly referred to as TLEs - Two-Line Elements - because that's the format they're usually presented in). TLEs are generated regularly by the U.S. Space Command and made available through a web interface based on their own activities tracking objects in Earth orbit. However, and this is the second point: the data is only as good as how recent it is, and how accurate it is. In other words, sometimes the data is incorrect. Sometimes it's outdated.

So for objects like this new constellation, especially so soon after launch, the sats will be maneuvering periodically throughout the coming days until the reach their final orbits. However, tracking by Space Command is *not* typically real-time. It's based on Space Command's own schedule of surveillance via optical, radar and whatever other methods they integrate into their tracking models. So it's likely that TLEs could well be obsolete and inaccurate by the time they're compiled and published by Space Command due to maneuvers made in the interim.

Obviously SpaceX's own team of controllers knows exactly where each of their birds is - they may or may not be sharing this data in real-time with Space Command, or via a periodic schedule. But I can pretty much guarantee you SpaceX is *not* sharing this data directly with those various sat-tracking and -spotting sites on the web.

So ... tl;dr: none of the sites will be anything close to perfect with this new constellation until it's fully on-station in the days or weeks to come. And that's only for this first tiny fraction of the whole.

[Llian Rhydderch]

TL;DR That's not quite right, Herb.  In this case, most of the websites being mentioned here in this thread are using the latest TLE calculated by the SeeSat folk, based on the accurate data Dr. Marco L in The Netherlands got about 27 hours ago over the Netherlands.  Some sites are using those TLEs; others, such a Satflare, allow one to input their own (most recent TLEs).

A bit more

The amateur skywatchers who report on SeeSat are no mere pikers. They are the expert amateurs who find the mil sats that Russia, China and the US don't report, and the US in particular skips data, or obfuscates data on, in the main NORAD space object database.  Dr Marco Langbroek, who captured the really excellent long video of the satellite train yesterday and is @Marco_Langbroek on Twitter, is a SeeSat expert himself.  The SeeSat team is often the ones to find the earliest/initial TLEs on many launches, not unusually, before NORAD reports in the public_but_sometimes_obfuscated government sat datasets.

So it's not quite as simple as these sats just launched, they're all maneuvering and changing orbits, and all of them are reporting the same TLEs from the same datasets from the gvmt sources.  Good initial TLEs can, and often do, exist in this uncertain environment after a new launche.  Cheers.

[Robotbeat]

I looked twice. Didn't see them either time, even though I looked in the right spot. I need a darker sky, I guess.

...I guess there goes the "oh no, it'll pollute the nightsky" argument.

[kenny008]

Looks like a pass over eastern USA in about an hour...  FYI
Will take a look and edit this post if I see much... 

I’ll tell you that this pass prediction was pretty accurate. I’m camping on the TN -KY border, and it went almost straight overhead at 21:42 CDT. Spectacular. Heavy light pollution, but clear skies. Multiple Iridium-type flashes as the train went by.  Glad I saw this post to take a look. 

[Robotbeat]

Looks like a pass over eastern USA in about an hour...  FYI
Will take a look and edit this post if I see much... 

I’ll tell you that this pass prediction was pretty accurate. I’m camping on the TN -KY border, and it went almost straight overhead at 21:42 CDT. Spectacular. Heavy light pollution, but clear skies. Multiple Iridium-type flashes as the train went by.  Glad I saw this post to take a look.

Must've been some clouds in the way for me, then. Glad you saw it.

[ulm_atms]

The Starlink train just went directly overhead.  Getting nice and spread out now.  Few small clusters left but counted over 50 dots before I lost it to sunset on them.

Would post pictures but they just "fixed" the street light right in front of my house.  It went out and I never called about it because I hated it...someone called though...    Tried to take pictures but got nothing but orange sodium glare.  Something may have to happen to it again.....

[Scylla]

!#?/@!! light pollution on my horizon. Couldn't see the train pass by. Oh well, another pass tomorrow at a 53° elevation at highest point. Fingers crossed.🍀

[OxCartMark]

I'm not a TLE knowledgeable kind of guy.  I used Calsky to predict a passage for my location (Detroit, 10:47-10:52pm ET).  I didn't see anything.  Magnitude was supposed to be 4.4 at best.  Clear skies, typical residential neighborhood lighting (no street lights).  What went wrong?  Not bright enough?  Timing off because the thrusters are changing the orbit?  Calsky says the orbit info is 1.1 days old.

[The Vorlon]

Not a chance of seeing anything overnight here--cold front with thunderstorms inbound.

Same fracking thing happens whenever anything interesting is going on in the sky....

[krsears]

We saw them tonight at 22:47ish. Clear skies with no moon risen at the time.  Not a lot of light pollution in our area locally but some bleed from Louisville (KY), Corydon (IN), and Brandenburg (KY).  The sats were dim as a whole and were really moving.  n2yo's data was off by quite a bit on the sky position, but we were expecting that and were scanning the whole sky.  It took a full minute before we could fully realize that the fuzzy line was the starlink sats.  If they weren't in a line, we would have completely missed them.  Once they were "fully overhead" it was easy to tell it was them, but counting them individually was out as many were extremely dim.  Some of them did change position and shone brightly for moments before returning to dimness.

Kendall

I'm not a TLE knowledgeable kind of guy.  I used Calsky to predict a passage for my location (Detroit, 10:47-10:52pm ET).  I didn't see anything.  Magnitude was supposed to be 4.4 at best.  Clear skies, typical residential neighborhood lighting (no street lights).  What went wrong?  Not bright enough?  Timing off because the thrusters are changing the orbit?  Calsky says the orbit info is 1.1 days old.

[OxCartMark]

We saw them tonight at 22:47ish.

Were the times as predicted?

Its strange, start time was predicted to be 10:47 in Detroit and I looked it up for a friend in Cincinatti and it was predicted for 10:47 there and you are further south and still 10:47.  We're separated by 400 miles and on the same minute.  Must be moving a bit fast.

[tdemko]

Nice overhead pass here north of Houston, TX at 21:45. Fairly dim until almost directly overhead, then dramatic brightening and flaring. Big train of 45 or so, then some stragglers. A lot of neighborhood street lamp and porch light glare, but did not impair visibility, even with some light low clouds. Felt like a bit of the past (Sputnik) and a lot of the future!

[krsears]

We saw them tonight at 22:47ish.

Were the times as predicted?

Its strange, start time was predicted to be 10:47 in Detroit and I looked it up for a friend in Cincinatti and it was predicted for 10:47 there and you are further south and still 10:47.  We're separated by 400 miles and on the same minute.  Must be moving a bit fast.

They are moving VERY fast.  n2yo stated that it would take 11 minutes to cross the sky, it did not.  I would estimate that it took maybe 5 to 6 minutes to cross our view.  n2yo also stated that the angle would be 224 degrees SW and 77 degrees.  In reality, the sats were more along 205 to 210 degrees and pretty much 85 degrees up.  They were fairly close to directly overhead.  We were able to view them with the naked eyes.  I didn't want to chance not catching them with a telescope's limited view angle if the information was inaccurate (which it was).

Kendall

[Comga]

Just saw them north of Denver!
Like a meteor trail heading northeast right overhead.
They glinted in series like a string of little lights flashing.
The pass was about ten minutes later than Satflare predicted which makes sense if they are raising their orbits.
Still a pretty tight group

Really, really cool

[jongoff]

Just saw them north of Denver!
Like a meteor trail heading northeast right overhead.
They glinted in series like a string of little lights flashing.
The pass was about ten minutes later than Satflare predicted which makes sense if they are raising their orbits.
Still a pretty tight group

Really, really cool

Thanks to a heads up from Mike Grusin on Twitter (that I just barely saw in time) Tiff and I went out and were able to see them. I'm not much of an astronomer, but you could see them with the naked eye. Definitely some glinting that was really bright, though most of the time it was just barely visible. Pretty neat to behold.

~Jon

[Semmel]

I looked twice. Didn't see them either time, even though I looked in the right spot. I need a darker sky, I guess.

...I guess there goes the "oh no, it'll pollute the nightsky" argument.

The location on sky was pretty accurate for me, not a big deal since you can see half the sky when looking up. For me, the timing was off by several minutes. So, be plenty early and don't give up too soon. Also your eyes need time to adapt to the dark as well.

Edit:  Also have a binocular ready for when you see them.

[OxCartMark]

Mods please move applicable posts here from this thread - https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47594.msg1950452#msg1950452

[RocketLover0119]

glad a spotting thread was started, will be going over me tonight starting at roughly 10 o'clock (Eastern Time US)

So excited to see what this will look like!

[OxCartMark]

So excited to see what this will look like!

Some advice - Take your camera in after you're done looking.  I left my camera on the roof of my car overnight and it was wet this morning.  Didn't discover it until ~11:00.

[CT Space Guy]

What web sites are people using to predict the overpass? I took a quick look at heavens above yesterday but didn't find Starlink...Thanks

[CJ]

I'm confused; I see some people reporting Starlink train spottings well into the hours of darkness. How is this possible? Unless the sats are in sunlight (and it's dark where the observer is), how can they be visible?

Also, am I doing it right when calculating sunlight altitude; I'm doing a simple distance-to-horizon calc, using the sat altitude. I then apply this to the terminator, to see how far east of the terminator (for sunset) the sats would be in sunlight.
I know this is a kludge method at best, but it's worked for me for ISS and other sat spotting, so I'm hopeful I can see the starlink train using it.

I'm getting roughly 1500 miles as distance-to-horizon for the sat altitude of 279 miles. This gives me, *roughly* for mid-latitudes (I'm using 40 north), based on earth's rational speed at that latitude of a viewing window of 795mph, a bit over two hours of post-sunset (or pre-dawn) viewing time.


 

[Scylla]

What web sites are people using to predict the overpass? I took a quick look at heavens above yesterday but didn't find Starlink...Thanks

Currently, I'm going here....https://www.n2yo.com/passes/?s=74001

Mind you, due to passes being too low in light pollution or cloudes, I have yet to spot them. Also keep in mind, sites don't update often enough to take in account orbit raising. Timing could be off. Get out early and stay late.

[Barrie]

What web sites are people using to predict the overpass? I took a quick look at heavens above yesterday but didn't find Starlink...Thanks

www.satflare.com, yellow box top left

[Yellowstone10]

I'm confused; I see some people reporting Starlink train spottings well into the hours of darkness. How is this possible? Unless the sats are in sunlight (and it's dark where the observer is), how can they be visible?

The orbit of the satellites is pretty close to the terminator at the moment. We're only about a month from the summer solstice, so the terminator is already close to its minimum inclination of 67°, pretty close to Starlink at 53°. And the satellites launched relatively close to sunset. So the sats are in sunlight more so than they'll be at other times of the year, or once the orbit precesses some.

[Bubbinski]

Last night at 10:13 I tried to spot the Starlink flying up to 36 degrees high in the east. Couldn’t see it. There’s light pollution and sometimes haze in that area (the lights of Sandy and Draper/benches just before the Wasatch Mountains). Other Salt Lake Astronomical Society members in different locations couldn’t see it either. Maybe the satellites are getting dimmer each day as they move away from each other? We’ll see

[OxCartMark]

What web sites are people using to predict the overpass? I took a quick look at heavens above yesterday but didn't find Starlink...Thanks

I'm not an expert but this is how I did it -

[OxCartMark]

I'm confused; I see some people reporting Starlink train spottings well into the hours of darkness. How is this possible? Unless the sats are in sunlight (and it's dark where the observer is), how can they be visible?

www.satflare.com[/url]

I just took a look at satflare.com and it seems nice, easy to use.  But as CJ points out I'm getting a prediction that the brightest pass in the chart, 1.8 magnitude will be at 3:30 in the morning.  How can that be, the sun will be on the other side of the rock?  The chart below is edited down but originally contained many more sighting opportunities.

[Semmel]

I'm confused; I see some people reporting Starlink train spottings well into the hours of darkness. How is this possible? Unless the sats are in sunlight (and it's dark where the observer is), how can they be visible?

www.satflare.com[/url]

I just took a look at satflare.com and it seems nice, easy to use.  But as CJ points out I'm getting a prediction that the brightest pass in the chart, 1.8 magnitude will be at 3:30 in the morning.  How can that be, the sun will be on the other side of the rock?  The chart below is edited down but originally contained many more sighting opportunities.

The sun is on the other side but shining over the north pole to your location. At 400km up, the sats can be seen up to 2000km away. Also, that means, the sats can be illuminated by the sun up to 2000km from the terminator. 2000km is about 19 degrees. Everything up to northward of 70 degrees is in permanent sunlight at moment. With additional 20 degrees illumination of starlink sats, that means if they are northward of 50 degrees north, they are in sunlight. The sats go up to about 60 degrees north, so will be visibile at every northern pass in the northern hemisphere say to about 40 degrees north. All very rough numbers but should give you an approximate reason why you can see them in the middle of the night. I saw them at 10 minutes past midnight last night, directly passing overhead at 52 degrees north.

[CT Space Guy]

Thanks for all the answers and web sites. I haven't gone out spotting in years

[tvg98]

Just saw them pass over the UK. They're a lot dimmer than they appeared in the videos that have been posted in the past few days.

[192]

Just saw them over the UK, really unique and amazing sight to see so many sats together. Mostly fairly dim with the occasional flare.

[OxCartMark]

For anyone reporting what you've seen, how's about telling us your viewing conditions (amount of light & clouds), the magnitude predicted for your sighting, what if any optics you used, camera lens length for pictures, and your impression of how visible they were.

[RocketLover0119]

Pass for me is in 1 hour, crossing my fingers! will pass along photos if I see them.

[gongora]

I live on the north side of Atlanta and didn't even see them until they were at the azimuth zenith over my house because of all of the light pollution coming from the south (and lots of airplanes on the southern horizon too).  I saw a brighter satellite go by a few minutes earlier in a different direction.  In the few seconds I could see them before they went behind one of the big oak trees I counted at least 33.  (My house is really not ideal for skywatching.)

[theinternetftw]

Just saw it on the east coast.  Recommend holding out a little longer than the estimated rise time.

A ghostly line taking up far more of the sky than I expected and moving at a good clip, each member of the train glimmering in turn as they occasionally lined up just right with the sun.  A long procession of stragglers that have already started to rise up and space out follow the main train, each appearing one by one for quite some time.

Didn't need binoculars, but it wasn't anywhere near as bright as can be seen in the videos that have been posted, and I was in a relatively dark area with little light pollution.  You have to be looking for it.

[AndrewJ]

Just saw them in Ontario, Canada, about 60 km north of Toronto. Too much haze and city lights to see them with the naked eye, but visible as a flowing stream of dots through binoculars.

[dccraven]

About an hour ago I saw the "train" of Starlink satellites pass over Chattanooga, TN. We could see them clearly as they passed directly overhead with several really reflecting light...almost sparkling as they went by.

[OxCartMark]

Huh, supposedly a bright pass past me, magnitude 2.6 and I was in residential neighborhood light with clear skies and saw nearly nothing.  One lowish illumination satellite visible on a path similar to what I was expecting but nothing else on that path then two other satellites from left field.  I was on the job for plenty of pre and post prediction time.  At least tonight I didn't have 4 other people standing out looking at other locations texting me disappointedly like I did last night.

[ClayJar]

Baton Rouge, here.  A bit of haze and lots of light pollution, even a few miles downstream on the levee.  Predicted magnitude 1.8, with a rise at 20:59, best at 21:05, set at 21:11 (all times local).

I saw just a couple satellites along with a mere smattering of stars during my wait.  I saw nothing of the Starlink train until my timer pinged 21:10, at which point my eye was suddenly drawn to a bright flare in the middle of a short Starlink train crossing about where I'd expected them to be at the highest point.  I didn't get a count, as I lost them all to light pollution moments later.  I managed to just make out a couple more individual dots following well behind.

[matthewkantar]

In Buffalo NY, middle of the city, saw 6 of them dimly following one another, the others must have been too washed out by all the light around me. They were much more spaced out than than i thought they would be.

[tater]

Pass almost at zenith here in Albuquerque. A few were extremely bright, others changed magnitude a lot. For this batch, incredibly cool to watch. If I was on my patio and saw a mesh of them on the sky a few years from now... yuck.

I'm a SpaceX fan, and I'll wait for them to reach target orbit before getting really worried, but this is... concerning.

[Mandella]

I live on the north side of Atlanta and didn't even see them until they were at the azimuth over my house because of all of the light pollution coming from the south (and lots of airplanes on the southern horizon too).  I saw a brighter satellite go by a few minutes earlier in a different direction.  In the few seconds I could see them before they went behind one of the big oak trees I counted at least 33.  (My house is really not ideal for skywatching.)

Howdy neighbor!

Exactly the same report. Also didn't see them till zenith, which makes me think that they must have just passed out of Earth's shadow into the sunlight. A smeary but absolutely straight fuzzy line -- looked like someone was writing across the sky with a faded glitter pen.

I even saw the "other satellite," which I thought was just a high flying plane. Anybody know which other satellite that was?

I was using the n2yo.com tracker, and it seemed right on, maybe a few minutes behind. The constellation was really moving too, and much dimmer than the first reports.

[archae86]

Albuquerque, NM.
Both n2yo and SatFlare forecast a good viewing opportunity with nearest approach to zenith about 9:41 p.m. at about 86 degrees.

I went to my roof with a pair of 10x42 image-stabilized binoculars of excellent optical quality and was very glad I had them.

I'm about ten miles from the city center, and the satellites rose just about over the city, so in a bright part of the light pollution.  I scanned the SW horizon back and forth with the binoculars, and first saw three dots travelling fast in perfect train.  For a surprising number of seconds I could only see those three through the binoculars, and nothing with naked eye.  As the train approached zenith I saw many more--eventually about thirty, with my "bright three" mixed in with many other dimmer ones.

The time of nearest approach to zenith was quite close to the n2yo and SatFlare forecast, within a minute or two.  The "bright three" were moderately dimmer than the stars of Ursa Major (the Big Dipper) and the others were much dimmer.  Even near zenith not many were naked eye visible here beyond the bright three.

Today was windy, so seeing was probably a bit dust impaired.  Also the city is close enough to impose appreciable light pollution.  For reference, while I could easily locate all of the primary stars of the Big Dipper, I could only confidently locate Polaris in the Little Dipper. 

The two dominant features were fast movement relative to the stellar background (or even airplanes), and movement in near-perfect train.

[daveklingler]

Albuquerque, NM.
Both n2yo and SatFlare forecast a good viewing opportunity with nearest approach to zenith about 9:41 p.m. at about 86 degrees.

I went to my roof with a pair of 10x42 image-stabilized binoculars of excellent optical quality and was very glad I had them.

I'm about ten miles from the city center, and the satellites rose just about over the city, so in a bright part of the light pollution.  I scanned the SW horizon back and forth with the binoculars, and first saw three dots travelling fast in perfect train.  For a surprising number of seconds I could only see those three through the binoculars, and nothing with naked eye.  As the train approached zenith I saw many more--eventually about thirty, with my "bright three" mixed in with many other dimmer ones.

The time of nearest approach to zenith was quite close to the n2yo and SatFlare forecast, within a minute or two.  The "bright three" were moderately dimmer than the stars of Ursa Major (the Big Dipper) and the others were much dimmer.  Even near zenith not many were naked eye visible here beyond the bright three.

Today was windy, so seeing was probably a bit dust impaired.  Also the city is close enough to impose appreciable light pollution.  For reference, while I could easily locate all of the primary stars of the Big Dipper, I could only confidently locate Polaris in the Little Dipper. 

The two dominant features were fast movement relative to the stellar background (or even airplanes), and movement in near-perfect train.

I just watched the train pass overhead, and contrary to the delight I expected to feel, I was horrified.  My friend had been tracking them, and I've been running outside periodically to look up.

I realized tonight that I prize the stillness of the night sky.  I don't want to look up at the stars and see constant motion. I hope there's something they can do to make the satellites non-reflective. 

I've rooted for everything SpaceX has ever done until tonight, but to quote my friend, given the choice between Starship hitting all of its aspirational targets and opening up the solar system, and looking up to see thousands of Starlinks, I'd rather have SpaceX go away tomorrow.

Same goes for Amazon's constellation and all the others.  No thanks.

[VoodooForce]

Yep you are right. Pack it up boys. Back to the stone age we go!

[su27k]

The sky will be full of artificial lights if we're to become a true space-faring civilization, this is just a tiny taste of what it will look like, you haven't seen P2P suborbitals, fusion torch ships, LEO habitats, O'Neill cylinders, orbital rings yet, oh the face of the Moon will be lighted up with lunar cities too.

The choice is pretty simple, do you want us to become truly space-faring, or not.

[Mandella]

I think we're going to need a separate thread for people to complain about how horrifying it is to finally be able to look up and see the amazing things we are doing in space.

Otherwise it's going to gum up all the other discussion and sighting info.

[GWH]

Didn't see Starlink on it's last pass (later tonight should be better) but I did see a very bright polar (or SSO) satellite.
Which reminds me of how often I see artificial objects in the night sky.
EDIT was watching a really bright pass of the ISS at 11:00 PM and saw another polar orbiting object pass almost perfectly over top of the ISS 

I am sure that with the speed at which SpaceX has iterated so far, some tweaks to reduce the brightness of the satellites is possible.

People are really going to lose it once Starship and its polished stainless steel hull orbit over them....

EDIT 2: Yaaasssss!!! Saw a beautiful pass overhead of the Starlink sats lined up like little ducklings. I could distinctly see 4 bright satellites with a more flickering on and off. It was neat and clearly visible but nowhere near what some of the vocal critics may have me believe. 
Also while watching I saw yet another polar object cross the path of the Starlink train.

In total after being outside off and on for 15 minutes tonight I counted 4 obvious Starlink sats, and 3 bright objects in polar orbits as well as the ISS.

[meekGee]

Albuquerque, NM.
Both n2yo and SatFlare forecast a good viewing opportunity with nearest approach to zenith about 9:41 p.m. at about 86 degrees.

I went to my roof with a pair of 10x42 image-stabilized binoculars of excellent optical quality and was very glad I had them.

I'm about ten miles from the city center, and the satellites rose just about over the city, so in a bright part of the light pollution.  I scanned the SW horizon back and forth with the binoculars, and first saw three dots travelling fast in perfect train.  For a surprising number of seconds I could only see those three through the binoculars, and nothing with naked eye.  As the train approached zenith I saw many more--eventually about thirty, with my "bright three" mixed in with many other dimmer ones.

The time of nearest approach to zenith was quite close to the n2yo and SatFlare forecast, within a minute or two.  The "bright three" were moderately dimmer than the stars of Ursa Major (the Big Dipper) and the others were much dimmer.  Even near zenith not many were naked eye visible here beyond the bright three.

Today was windy, so seeing was probably a bit dust impaired.  Also the city is close enough to impose appreciable light pollution.  For reference, while I could easily locate all of the primary stars of the Big Dipper, I could only confidently locate Polaris in the Little Dipper. 

The two dominant features were fast movement relative to the stellar background (or even airplanes), and movement in near-perfect train.

I just watched the train pass overhead, and contrary to the delight I expected to feel, I was horrified.  My friend had been tracking them, and I've been running outside periodically to look up.

I realized tonight that I prize the stillness of the night sky.  I don't want to look up at the stars and see constant motion. I hope there's something they can do to make the satellites non-reflective. 

I've rooted for everything SpaceX has ever done until tonight, but to quote my friend, given the choice between Starship hitting all of its aspirational targets and opening up the solar system, and looking up to see thousands of Starlinks, I'd rather have SpaceX go away tomorrow.

Same goes for Amazon's constellation and all the others.  No thanks.

Abolish air travel too?  What else?  I thought you wanted millions of people living and working in space... How will they travel between Earth and orbit? What about in-space propulsion as they fly between their O'Neill cylinders?

Besides, enough with the hyperbole already.  There won't be "thousands of satellites in the sky"...  They are in LEO.  There will be maybe a dozen within line of sight from any given point on Earth, and they will only be visible during windows around dusk/dawn

[speedevil]

For anyone spotting them, for people calculating orbits, even a bad picture or video with a precise timestamp and location can really help nail down the orbit, and changes to it, as long as you can see starlink and the surrounding stars.



I was going to post a list of videos, but then found this collection:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=VxWrOtL6iy0&list=PLXxoQ6PzwasnOjjgC3kzgEWirt4l4RROV
This has a lot of passes, some of which I missed initially.

[tater]

Besides, enough with the hyperbole already.  There won't be "thousands of satellites in the sky"...  They are in LEO.  There will be maybe a dozen within line of sight from any given point on Earth, and they will only be visible during windows around dusk/dawn

When the constellation is finished, about 500 will be overhead any particular person at any given time. Last night one of the space photographers I follow saw the third pass over Chicago, which was after midnight, I think. That's 4 hours after local sunset, and local sunrise there is at 5:20, you you'd expect passes 4 hours before sunrise then as well. That leaves an hour of night (assuming no visible pass is possible in the intervening hour). Of the 64 tracked objects, last night 3 were at least magnitude 2 (at least as bright as the brighter stars in Ursa Major), and they were bright for the whole pass (SW-->NE). Others flickered in and out of naked eye visibility (in a small city, would have been more someplace dark). Let's assume 5% are visible. That means when all 12000 are up, 25-50 will be as bright as the stars commonly visible in a small city for every observer all the time (counting on the same number popping in and out of visibility). That's actually not as bad as I had thought, but in the back country that likely becomes over 100 visible for at least 8 hours of each night given reports of visible passes well after midnight.

Astronomers can deal with this, and Elon has tweeted they can put space telescopes up. I'm not concerned with the astronomy at the moment, I'm concerned with quality of life for all of us here on Earth.

It seems like mitigating this would simply be good planetary citizenship. Anti-reflective coatings on the Earth-facing plane of the spacecraft, for example. The goal should be to try and get each sat below mag 6.5 (naked eye limit). If this can be achieved with coatings, why would anyone be against this? Pretending it's not an issue at all doesn't provide any incentive to bother fixing the problem. The engineering balance is thermal management and weight vs creating an eyesore. It's not like a quarter wave coating is going to add much weight.

I should add that random sat passes are different than a visible pattern. Humans notice patterns, and that nature of these constellations (there will be more) will make them even more obvious. What happens some other nation does the same, but the sats are bigger, or more reflective? Seems like the standard should be set now to intentionally minimize visual impact.

[tater]

Elon tweeted:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1132908689860415488
"
Replying to @Cosmic_Penguin

Agreed, sent a note to Starlink team last week specifically regarding albedo reduction. We’ll get a better sense of value of this when satellites have raised orbits & arrays are tracking to sun.
"

So Musk agrees this is a reasonable concern, and they will work on it.

[meekGee]

Besides, enough with the hyperbole already.  There won't be "thousands of satellites in the sky"...  They are in LEO.  There will be maybe a dozen within line of sight from any given point on Earth, and they will only be visible during windows around dusk/dawn

When the constellation is finished, about 500 will be overhead any particular person at any given time. Last night one of the space photographers I follow saw the third pass over Chicago, which was after midnight, I think. That's 4 hours after local sunset, and local sunrise there is at 5:20, you you'd expect passes 4 hours before sunrise then as well. That leaves an hour of night (assuming no visible pass is possible in the intervening hour). Of the 64 tracked objects, last night 3 were at least magnitude 2 (at least as bright as the brighter stars in Ursa Major), and they were bright for the whole pass (SW-->NE). Others flickered in and out of naked eye visibility (in a small city, would have been more someplace dark). Let's assume 5% are visible. That means when all 12000 are up, 25-50 will be as bright as the stars commonly visible in a small city for every observer all the time (counting on the same number popping in and out of visibility). That's actually not as bad as I had thought, but in the back country that likely becomes over 100 visible for at least 8 hours of each night given reports of visible passes well after midnight.

Astronomers can deal with this, and Elon has tweeted they can put space telescopes up. I'm not concerned with the astronomy at the moment, I'm concerned with quality of life for all of us here on Earth.

It seems like mitigating this would simply be good planetary citizenship. Anti-reflective coatings on the Earth-facing plane of the spacecraft, for example. The goal should be to try and get each sat below mag 6.5 (naked eye limit). If this can be achieved with coatings, why would anyone be against this? Pretending it's not an issue at all doesn't provide any incentive to bother fixing the problem. The engineering balance is thermal management and weight vs creating an eyesore. It's not like a quarter wave coating is going to add much weight.

I should add that random sat passes are different than a visible pattern. Humans notice patterns, and that nature of these constellations (there will be more) will make them even more obvious. What happens some other nation does the same, but the sats are bigger, or more reflective? Seems like the standard should be set now to intentionally minimize visual impact.

Mitigations, of course, that goes without saying.

Chicago at midnight - can you explain how that happens?  I'm really curious.

500 at any given time - doesn't that mean they have too many satellites?

Concern - for sure, evaluate it first, and then if it bothers people, do the best you can to improve... 

My issue is with lack of proportion in the responses, and the failure to understand just how fundamentally important this is.


Ah - the answer to the earlier questions is the definition of "line of sight".  The overwhelming number of "sightings" will be just above the horizon, and very far away.

The horizon for a 500 km tower is 10000 km away.  That's how you have line of sight to so many, and that's how, if due north at summer, you can catch a lit one.
 
Such satellites though are 10-20x as far, and view through a ton of atmosphere.  I don't think you'll notice them.

For high inclination ones, the original premise stays - limited windows of visibility, and a much lower frequency.

[tater]

Mitigations, of course, that goes without saying.

Chicago at midnight - can you explain how that happens?  I'm really curious.[/quote]

I don't need to explain it to you, you can watch the video:

https://twitter.com/TrevorMahlmann/status/1132884473207545856

12:15 am central time.

500 at any given time - doesn't that mean they have too many satellites?

Concern - for sure, evaluate it first, and then if it bothers people, do the best you can to improve... 

The total constellation is 12,000 satellites. Even if they were to stop at 4400, this would mean more than 150 in sight at any given location.

Concern? You're suggesting that he place the full constellation, then mitigate it after people complain? Clearly Musk himself doesn't agree with this, they're looking into ways to lower spacecraft albedo.

My issue is with lack of proportion in the responses, and the failure to understand just how fundamentally important this is.

Lack of proportion? Some of use come to our love of spaceflight because we looked into the night sky with wonder. We saw how huge the universe was, and we want to, well, go there.

My response to seeing the pass was, "WOW!" It was incredibly cool. My kids and wife thought so as well. I was almost immediately worried about what it would be like when there were literally 10X as many above my head, crisscrossing in a grid. (500 would be for the 12k spread across the entire globe, in fact they are limited to a band, so it's more like 600 overhead everyone, all the time). Add all future competing constellations, as well.


<EDIT> about 4% of the sats are above the horizon at any given time assuming 500km altitude.

[VoodooForce]

Old man shakes fist at sky glints 

[su27k]

It seems like mitigating this would simply be good planetary citizenship. Anti-reflective coatings on the Earth-facing plane of the spacecraft, for example. The goal should be to try and get each sat below mag 6.5 (naked eye limit). If this can be achieved with coatings, why would anyone be against this?

Nobody is against voluntary mitigation, if SpaceX wants to do that, then kudos to them. I am however firmly against a certain person who would rather humanity gives up space travel than having a few more bright stars on the sky, to me that attitude is pure insanity.

People need to realize more lights up there is a natural consequence of lower launch costs and more space commerce, voluntary mitigation may slow it down but unless you're willing to stop humanity from using LEO altogether, the sky is going to change no matter what, it's just a question of how fast it'll change.

[Lars-J]

Chicago at midnight - can you explain how that happens?  I'm really curious.

We are near the summer solstice. That’s why they can be observed at or near midnight in some places. In fall/spring they will be in shade far quicker after sunset, even even harder to see in the winter.

[Barley]

The horizon for a 500 km tower is 10000 km away.

Uh, no.  Opinions about a dark sky are one thing.  Opinions about basic geometry are something else entirely.

[meekGee]

The horizon for a 500 km tower is 10000 km away.

Uh, no.  Opinions about a dark sky are one thing.  Opinions about basic geometry are something else entirely.

I thought I did it right.  What did you get?

500 km as tower height, not 500 m.

But hey - I'm advocating it's not a giant problem.  The "line of sight" calculation is misleading, since it catches a very large set of sats that will not be visible.

The mesh view is better.  Satellites will be spaced about 60 degrees apart, in two dimensions.  Look up at the sky and try to imagine that.  It's hardly intimidating, even during the times they are lit.

[Mandella]

Yep. If we and our robots are living and working in space, this is what you get. You will actually be able to see them in action!

Well, you could see it in action before if you bothered to got outside after dusk or before dawn. I used to love catching Iridium flares, and other sats plus the ISS are actually pretty easy to discern. This is getting a lot of attention because, 1) Musk, and 2) the train is pretty attention catching. But these will spread out in a short while and things will go back to having the occasional fast moving flicker overhead that you have to be looking for to see.

And if they do manage to mitigate most of the sparkliness of the freshly launched train, I'll actually miss it. It's nice to look up and actually see the physical evidence of someone doing what couldn't be done...

[armchairfan]

The horizon for a 500 km tower is 10000 km away.

Check your math. 10000 km is the distance from the pole to the equator. 500 km is just 1/12 the Earth's radius. Intuition should tell you that a object less than (say) a half inch above the top of a basketball is not going to be visible at the "equator".

I get arccos(r/(r+h))*r = 2400 km for r=6371km and h=500km. But that's all the way down to the horizon. Obviously it will be less if want the satellite visible higher in the sky.

[DAZ]

Heavens Above now has links for Starlink.

https://www.heavens-above.com/

[meekGee]

The horizon for a 500 km tower is 10000 km away.

Check your math. 10000 km is the distance from the pole to the equator. 500 km is just 1/12 the Earth's radius. Intuition should tell you that a object less than (say) a half inch above the top of a basketball is not going to be visible at the "equator".

I get arccos(r/(r+h))*r = 2400 km for r=6371km and h=500km. But that's all the way down to the horizon. Obviously it will be less if want the satellite visible higher in the sky.

6400 km is not that far from 10,000, and my point is exactly that the majority of them don't matter since they are near the horizon.

Visualize a 2d net of satellites about 60 degrees apart - that's the density.  It's not a problem even wheb they're lit.

[armchairfan]

I get arccos(r/(r+h))*r = 2400 km for r=6371km and h=500km. But that's all the way down to the horizon. Obviously it will be less if want the satellite visible higher in the sky.

6400 km is not that far from 10,000, and my point is [something else]

I thought I did it right.  What did you get?

6400 km is the earth's radius, 2400 km is the distance to the horizon. Just correcting the math error that you originally requested.

[meekGee]

I get arccos(r/(r+h))*r = 2400 km for r=6371km and h=500km. But that's all the way down to the horizon. Obviously it will be less if want the satellite visible higher in the sky.

6400 km is not that far from 10,000, and my point is [something else]

I thought I did it right.  What did you get?

6400 km is the earth's radius, 2400 km is the distance to the horizon. Just correcting the math error that you originally requested.

Thx..   yeah, getting to 1/4 of the circumference would indeed require a very tall tower...

[John Alan]

IMHO... 
I don't have a problem with a newly launched group of 60 (or whatever) freight-training across the sky in an ever expanding line that basically after a month+ will vanish to 99.9% of people UNLESS they are looking right at one with a telescope or similar... 

The Tweet above that EM already sent a memo to the design team, that they may need to consider making them less "sun flashy" in later versions to calm the masses and maintain good PR, made me smile... 

Personally... I think they should put ground controllable, single bright, LED strobe lights on each one... and for the first 48 hours after a new group is launched, like every 12 seconds in unison... the entire new group pops it's strobes in unison...
Yes... it's a PR stunt and will get old after a while... but it will be helpful to those who like this stuff...
After that... all strobes stay off UNLESS a unit is commanded directly by a SpaceX control ground station...
This would allow usage later to demo to certain high end customers (DOD, etc) during planned events where overhead at this one location the starlink fleet is... to impress the brass... 

In short... have a way to clearly see it at times on command... But then try and hide mostly once in use... will go a long way to get J.Q. Public to drop any concerns about the whole matter... IMHO... 

[daveklingler]

Abolish air travel too? What else?  I thought you wanted millions of people living and working in space... How will they travel between Earth and orbit? What about in-space propulsion as they fly between their O'Neill cylinders?

Besides, enough with the hyperbole already.  There won't be "thousands of satellites in the sky"...  They are in LEO.  There will be maybe a dozen within line of sight from any given point on Earth, and they will only be visible during windows around dusk/dawn

Your information and logic are both in error.

Explaining an aesthetic to someone who doesn't have it is a fruitless exercise. There's a very large body of prose, poetry and art built around the night sky.  For those who live in a well-lit city or don't spend time looking at the night sky, that body of work means little or nothing.

For them, the loss of the night sky affects them not at all.  For others, it's a big deal.  If you care enough for an answer, start with an introductory college course on astronomy, and while you're at it do literature, art history and music appreciation. Heck, as long as you're expanding your mind, read some of the material on the SSI website.

SpaceX can certainly continue without 14,000 Starlink satellites if they have to; indeed, no one's sure yet whether Starlink benefits anybody, including SpaceX.

[meekGee]

Abolish air travel too? What else?  I thought you wanted millions of people living and working in space... How will they travel between Earth and orbit? What about in-space propulsion as they fly between their O'Neill cylinders?

Besides, enough with the hyperbole already.  There won't be "thousands of satellites in the sky"...  They are in LEO.  There will be maybe a dozen within line of sight from any given point on Earth, and they will only be visible during windows around dusk/dawn

Your information and logic are both in error.

Explaining an aesthetic to someone who doesn't have it is a fruitless exercise. There's a very large body of prose, poetry and art built around the night sky.  For those who live in a well-lit city or don't spend time looking at the night sky, that body of work means little or nothing.

For them, the loss of the night sky affects them not at all.  For others, it's a big deal.  If you care enough for an answer, start with an introductory college course on astronomy, and while you're at it do literature, art history and music appreciation. Heck, as long as you're expanding your mind, read some of the material on the SSI website.

SpaceX can certainly continue without 14,000 Starlink satellites if they have to; indeed, no one's sure yet whether Starlink benefits anybody, including SpaceX.

I live in the hills where the sky is awesome, and that's one of the reasons I chose the place.

Seeing, sometimes, satellites that are spread some 60 degrees apart does not ruin anything for me. If anything, it's kinda cool. Especially if you have any space affinity.

No body of poetry will be harmed, this is a storm in a tea cup. Did lighthouses ruin shoreline poetry?

You OTOH still owe us an explanation about how your attitude jives with millions of people working in space and of O'Neill cylinders... Do you think all those activities will be invisible?  You're talking thousands of flights everywhere, with real engines creating real plumes...  much brighter than any satellite flare.

Keep telling us how you support all space efforts, except the ones that are real.

[cebri]

Saw them! n2yo was pretty accurate in both time & altitude. Only one was visible with naked eyes (under heavy light pollution), the rest seen effortlessly with binoculars. Sats have separated into groups.

[archae86]

Full member PM3 has posted a table of some orbital parameters for the sixty Starlink satellites.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48135.msg1950806#msg1950806
It turns out that the NORAD numbers in that table give individual forecasts when supplied to satflare.com.

I looked up a good many as to predicted moment of "best viewing" for a pass over Albuquerque this evening.  The Best viewing time in this case appears to be the maximum elevation above horizon time.  This time was systematically later for the objects with longer orbital periods in the table, though the correlation was not perfectly smooth.

For the ones I looked up, best viewing time varied from 20:59:01 to 21:11:17, so somewhat over 12 minutes from beginning to end.  There appeared to be an initial tight cluster, followed by a long tail. 

The graphical representation of the full train on the Satflare site suggests at least two things are well in front of the main group.  However, the one they designate as "Starlink Head" (NORAD 44248) gets the 20:59:01 forecast.  Possibly the leaders are stage parts or deployment leftovers.  For example, NORAD 44297, which is designated as Falcon 9 DEB in the table, gets an early time of 20:57:01.

Anyway, this is a good reason that those of us who recently attempted binocular counts of the main body got numbers far below sixty.  I know I did not keep looking long enough last night to have any chance of spotting the later stragglers.

[daveklingler]

It seems like mitigating this would simply be good planetary citizenship. Anti-reflective coatings on the Earth-facing plane of the spacecraft, for example. The goal should be to try and get each sat below mag 6.5 (naked eye limit). If this can be achieved with coatings, why would anyone be against this?

I am however firmly against a certain person who would rather humanity gives up space travel than having a few more bright stars on the sky, to me that attitude is pure insanity.

Was there someone proposing that humanity give up space travel?  Tough to see that taking place - I think I saw an article the other day with an estimate of 120 launch startups.

People need to realize more lights up there is a natural consequence of lower launch costs and more space commerce, voluntary mitigation may slow it down but unless you're willing to stop humanity from using LEO altogether, the sky is going to change no matter what, it's just a question of how fast it'll change.

Popping somewhere on the order of 30,000 15-20,000 satellites into LEO in under a decade is a major change for the night sky, and to many, a dizzying major new form of light pollution.  This is a completely new issue, both for astronomers and for people who just like to look at the stars, and it deserves some consideration before it's just undertaken by companies who see an opportunity for revenue.

[Jcc]

Is there any evidence that the thrusters are being used to raise the orbit, or cause the satellites to separate?

[Lars-J]

Is there any evidence that the thrusters are being used to raise the orbit, or cause the satellites to separate?

Yes, the train is spreading out, and some of the satellites trail behind quite a bit. (Those are the ones that are raising their orbit)

[Robotbeat]

Besides, enough with the hyperbole already.  There won't be "thousands of satellites in the sky"...  They are in LEO.  There will be maybe a dozen within line of sight from any given point on Earth, and they will only be visible during windows around dusk/dawn

When the constellation is finished, about 500 will be overhead any particular person at any given time. Last night one of the space photographers I follow saw the third pass over Chicago, which was after midnight, I think. That's 4 hours after local sunset, and local sunrise there is at 5:20, you you'd expect passes 4 hours before sunrise then as well. That leaves an hour of night (assuming no visible pass is possible in the intervening hour). Of the 64 tracked objects, last night 3 were at least magnitude 2 (at least as bright as the brighter stars in Ursa Major), and they were bright for the whole pass (SW-->NE). Others flickered in and out of naked eye visibility (in a small city, would have been more someplace dark). Let's assume 5% are visible. That means when all 12000 are up, 25-50 will be as bright as the stars commonly visible in a small city for every observer all the time (counting on the same number popping in and out of visibility). That's actually not as bad as I had thought, but in the back country that likely becomes over 100 visible for at least 8 hours of each night given reports of visible passes well after midnight.

Astronomers can deal with this, and Elon has tweeted they can put space telescopes up. I'm not concerned with the astronomy at the moment, I'm concerned with quality of life for all of us here on Earth.

It seems like mitigating this would simply be good planetary citizenship. Anti-reflective coatings on the Earth-facing plane of the spacecraft, for example. The goal should be to try and get each sat below mag 6.5 (naked eye limit). If this can be achieved with coatings, why would anyone be against this? Pretending it's not an issue at all doesn't provide any incentive to bother fixing the problem. The engineering balance is thermal management and weight vs creating an eyesore. It's not like a quarter wave coating is going to add much weight.

I should add that random sat passes are different than a visible pattern. Humans notice patterns, and that nature of these constellations (there will be more) will make them even more obvious. What happens some other nation does the same, but the sats are bigger, or more reflective? Seems like the standard should be set now to intentionally minimize visual impact.

This is the most reasonable skeptic take I've seen so far. More of this quality, please.


To be honest, I don't think we'll get all the way to invisible (Mag 6.5). But I do think we'll get better. But satellites are SUPER common and visible already basically any time you have a dark enough sky (except late). ISS is a freaking beacon; no one made a big deal of it. Iridium is a pretty large constellation (60 birds?), and had a MAJOR design feature which caused super bright flares, but again, we all survived and I'm not aware of anyone who made a big deal out of it.

At the end of the day, if humans are going to be spacefaring, the effects will be visible. They already definitely are.

What's not helpful is over-reacting. I agree it'd be good to mitigate albedo when possible.

But this is a public good. Wide access to the Internet, increasing competition everywhere. Of all uses of space, this is practically the MOST accessible and widely usable by the most people. You're not going to get a much better case for being in the public interest than this. I mean, do you think a network of space hotels for the rich is going to be received better? If you're not willing to try to defend these kind of constellations and you're a spaceflight enthusiast that wants us to be spacefaring, then we'll probably just never become spacefaring.

[meekGee]

Besides, enough with the hyperbole already.  There won't be "thousands of satellites in the sky"...  They are in LEO.  There will be maybe a dozen within line of sight from any given point on Earth, and they will only be visible during windows around dusk/dawn

When the constellation is finished, about 500 will be overhead any particular person at any given time. Last night one of the space photographers I follow saw the third pass over Chicago, which was after midnight, I think. That's 4 hours after local sunset, and local sunrise there is at 5:20, you you'd expect passes 4 hours before sunrise then as well. That leaves an hour of night (assuming no visible pass is possible in the intervening hour). Of the 64 tracked objects, last night 3 were at least magnitude 2 (at least as bright as the brighter stars in Ursa Major), and they were bright for the whole pass (SW-->NE). Others flickered in and out of naked eye visibility (in a small city, would have been more someplace dark). Let's assume 5% are visible. That means when all 12000 are up, 25-50 will be as bright as the stars commonly visible in a small city for every observer all the time (counting on the same number popping in and out of visibility). That's actually not as bad as I had thought, but in the back country that likely becomes over 100 visible for at least 8 hours of each night given reports of visible passes well after midnight.

Astronomers can deal with this, and Elon has tweeted they can put space telescopes up. I'm not concerned with the astronomy at the moment, I'm concerned with quality of life for all of us here on Earth.

It seems like mitigating this would simply be good planetary citizenship. Anti-reflective coatings on the Earth-facing plane of the spacecraft, for example. The goal should be to try and get each sat below mag 6.5 (naked eye limit). If this can be achieved with coatings, why would anyone be against this? Pretending it's not an issue at all doesn't provide any incentive to bother fixing the problem. The engineering balance is thermal management and weight vs creating an eyesore. It's not like a quarter wave coating is going to add much weight.

I should add that random sat passes are different than a visible pattern. Humans notice patterns, and that nature of these constellations (there will be more) will make them even more obvious. What happens some other nation does the same, but the sats are bigger, or more reflective? Seems like the standard should be set now to intentionally minimize visual impact.

This is the most reasonable skeptic take I've seen so far. More of this quality, please.


To be honest, I don't think we'll get all the way to invisible (Mag 6.5). But I do think we'll get better. But satellites are SUPER common and visible already basically any time you have a dark enough sky (except late). ISS is a freaking beacon; no one made a big deal of it. Iridium is a pretty large constellation (60 birds?), and had a MAJOR design feature which caused super bright flares, but again, we all survived and I'm not aware of anyone who made a big deal out of it.

At the end of the day, if humans are going to be spacefaring, the effects will be visible. They already definitely are.

What's not helpful is over-reacting. I agree it'd be good to mitigate albedo when possible.

But this is a public good. Wide access to the Internet, increasing competition everywhere. Of all uses of space, this is practically the MOST accessible and widely usable by the most people. You're not going to get a much better case for being in the public interest than this. I mean, do you think a network of space hotels for the rich is going to be received better? If you're not willing to try to defend these kind of constellations and you're a spaceflight enthusiast that wants us to be spacefaring, then we'll probably just never become spacefaring.

... it sounds reasonable, but it is factually wrong.

It says: "When the constellation is finished, about 500 will be overhead any particular person at any given time"
This is baseless.

Using round numbers, the 4000 shell is maybe 65 satellites times 65 planes, or some such.  This makes a mesh network with a spacing of 40,000 km / 65 = 615 km.  Since the satellites are below 600 km, the apparent distance between them is a bit more than 60 degrees.

So look up at the sky and imagine such a net.  It's 180 degrees to a perfect horizon, so you'll be lucky to have line of sight to maybe 3x3=9 satellites.

The trick is, near the horizon, you see this shell of satellites almost "edge on", and so near there you'll a lot of satellites - except they'll be thousands of km away, and going through a lot of atmosphere - they'll be mostly invisible.  And certainly not an impediment to astronomy.

Sometimes, those far ones, some might be in sunlight longer, as happened in the Chicago case - but that will be low on the horizon again.

The satellites that are overhead, those will only be visible during sunset/sunrise, so not a problem either.  Given that people's focused field of view is pretty narrow, you'll be lucky to see two satellites at once.

For another 8000 satellites, just multiply by 3, very roughly.

Right now, the astronomy community is up in arms, and there are horror stories everywhere, and they get worse as they're retold...  one guy says it was "almost midnight", the other says he "thinks it was midnight", and the third already goes "past midnight"...   Since coverage is global, it seems as if the deployment train is everywhere...   But remember it's only at one place at one time, so most of the world does not see it...

--

Take a breath.  Let these guys deploy. See if there's even a need for mitigations.  A year from now, nobody will even remember this episode.

[Scylla]

Finally saw them. Took a 84° highest point, but I saw them, well some of them, well a few of them. 3-4 minute gap between first and last one I saw.

[Robotbeat]

Just saw my first Starlink cluster pass by. Directly overhead this time. I saw maybe 2 or 3 of them (I'm in a not-super-dense city and it's still a little near dusk). I saw another satellite pass from a totally different direction which I would estimate is brighter.

They must have the satellites properly oriented now. If they're able to avoid Iridium-like flares, I think this first early operational Starlink constellation may have less impact on the night sky than Iridium did. ISS is way, WAY brighter. I don't think I'd have noticed these if I wasn't intently looking up. ISS is bright enough that I often notice it (and go check online after the fact) even when I'm not specifically looking up.

[su27k]

It seems like mitigating this would simply be good planetary citizenship. Anti-reflective coatings on the Earth-facing plane of the spacecraft, for example. The goal should be to try and get each sat below mag 6.5 (naked eye limit). If this can be achieved with coatings, why would anyone be against this?

I am however firmly against a certain person who would rather humanity gives up space travel than having a few more bright stars on the sky, to me that attitude is pure insanity.

Was there someone proposing that humanity give up space travel? 

Yes, you said "given the choice between Starship hitting all of its aspirational targets and opening up the solar system, and looking up to see thousands of Starlinks, I'd rather have SpaceX go away tomorrow."

Tough to see that taking place - I think I saw an article the other day with an estimate of 120 launch startups.

And what do you think these new launch companies will launch? More satellites to LEO of course. Some of them already signed up to launch other constellations (Virgin, Relativity).

People need to realize more lights up there is a natural consequence of lower launch costs and more space commerce, voluntary mitigation may slow it down but unless you're willing to stop humanity from using LEO altogether, the sky is going to change no matter what, it's just a question of how fast it'll change.

Popping somewhere on the order of 30,000 satellites into LEO in under a decade is a major change for the night sky, and to many, a dizzying major new form of light pollution.  This is a completely new issue, both for astronomers and for people who just like to look at the stars, and it deserves some consideration before it's just undertaken by companies who see an opportunity for revenue.

SpaceX can only be held responsible for their own 12,000 satellites, for the rest you should talk to their respective owners. Since there're already 5,000 satellites, majority in LEO, sending 12,000 more in 10 years doesn't change the landscape significantly.

Also whether satellites are light pollution is subjective, as any matter related to aesthetics, so I don't see how a meaningful consideration can be done, it would just devolve to "yes it is", "no it isn't", basically a waste of time and internet bandwidth, to have this kind of waste slowing down commercialization of LEO is criminal.

[meekGee]

Was there someone proposing that humanity give up space travel?  Tough to see that taking place - I think I saw an article the other day with an estimate of 120 launch startups.

...

Popping somewhere on the order of 30,000 satellites into LEO in under a decade is a major change for the night sky, and to many, a dizzying major new form of light pollution.  This is a completely new issue, both for astronomers and for people who just like to look at the stars, and it deserves some consideration before it's just undertaken by companies who see an opportunity for revenue.

Answering your question, yes, you did:  (And repeated it elsewhere).

Having just looked up to watch the train pass overhead, I'm praying that they start doing whatever they can to make them invisible. I'd rather have SpaceX and every other constellation manufacturer go permanently defunct than look up to see the night sky swarming with thousands of satellites.

And then you continue with the hyperbole, literally about the sky falling, completely disregarding reality.  It's simple fear-mongering coupled with selective rage.  Why aren't you calling BO out for its plans to have millions of people working and living in space?

[CJ]

I'm a bit puzzled; heavens above shows the orbit as 433x438km. N2yo shows current altitude as 450km. Obviously at least one is wrong. Any ideas on why?

On the lights in the sky issue, if it's very cheap and simple to do, I'm all for lowering albedo. Basically, why make a mess if you don't have to?

I live well away from towns and cities, and at high altitude, and love the night sky. However, to keep it in perspective, I see a lot more aircraft than satellites, and aircraft are far more distracting due to flashing. I don't object to Starlink (or, air travel).

What I would vehemently object to is useless clutter in the skies, such as advertizing signs (formations of lit sats forming company logos, etc). That's pure vandalism, and for that, I'd be all in favor of testing ASATs on them. IMHO that's the kind of thing we need to worry about, not getting all upset over things like Starlink.

As for me, I'm about to try spotting Starlink again. Looks like a pass coming up in about 15 minutes, about 45 degrees elevation. I've had no luck so far, but I do want to see them in formation.

Edit: I just tried to spot the Starlink sats, and failed. I'll try binoculars next time. However, if they are so faint that I can't spot them in near perfect sky conditions (for example, I could see quite a few fainter stars within a few degrees of the north star), then they aren't exactly a glaring case of night sky pollution, to say the least. 

[Marine_Mustang]

Satflare had a visible pass culminating at 21:34 tonight over Southern California. About 21:45 I saw a decently bright flare in about the right spot (northern sky), but was unable to pick up a train, even with 70mm binos. Moderately light-polluted suburban skies, the big dipper was nearly overhead and clearly visible. A fair number of stars visible. The flare was a bit brighter than the stars of the big dipper. That’s it; no train or other sats at all.

[catdlr]

Starlink at night


Mark Handley
Published on May 27, 2019

Why can we see the first Starlink satellites at midnight?  Some simulations of StarLink satellite illumination show how this depends on the time of the year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZiUsNQiJ1I?t=001

[envy887]

The total constellation is 12,000 satellites. Even if they were to stop at 4400, this would mean more than 150 in sight at any given location.

<EDIT> about 4% of the sats are above the horizon at any given time assuming 500km altitude.

The constellation varies considerably in height. Only ~10% are currently planned for 500-550 km. Another ~20% will go to 1000-1300 km, but the remaining ~65% are going to ~330-350 km.

The lower satellites will only be visible to a much smaller area, and will spend far less time in twilight. On the other hand, they will be much closer and presumably the same size, so they will be brighter.

The bottom line is that it has been less than a week since they launched. It is far too early to tell how visible they will be in operation. They seem to be fading as they gain pointing control and raise the orbits.

(anecdotally, I tried looking for the train on the 25th, 2 days after launch, but couldn't see them over moderate light pollution.)

[Robotbeat]

It should be reiterated that it has always been predictable that lots of Starlink satellites would be visible. The issue is that people were surprised that SpaceX actually managed to beat their competitors.

Don't underestimate SpaceX. Make your concerns known early so they can be addressed in the design phase.

[Slarty1080]

I'm a bit puzzled; heavens above shows the orbit as 433x438km. N2yo shows current altitude as 450km. Obviously at least one is wrong. Any ideas on why?
SNIP...

The sats were deployed into a low orbit and will make their own way up to their final operational 550 km orbit. I suspect that the difference is due to timing of when the measurments were taken. If you look in a few days or weeks they will be in a higher orbit.

[bkellysky]

Suburban skies and a high, thin cloud layer about an hour and a quarter after sunset.
Could see the Big Dipper.
Didn't see them.
Used N2YO.com information.

[edzieba]

Explaining an aesthetic to someone who doesn't have it is a fruitless exercise. There's a very large body of prose, poetry and art built around the night sky.  For those who live in a well-lit city or don't spend time looking at the night sky, that body of work means little or nothing.

For them, the loss of the night sky affects them not at all.  For others, it's a big deal.  If you care enough for an answer, start with an introductory college course on astronomy, and while you're at it do literature, art history and music appreciation. Heck, as long as you're expanding your mind, read some of the material on the SSI website.

The proposed Starlink constellation will hardly blot out the existing sky, merely add to it. Might one propose that poets and artists up in arms about a striking addition to the night sky might instead use it to create new works of poetry and art?

[AJW]

Sunday night in NorCal the train we saw appeared like three distinct lights about the width of Orion's belt crossing together through the bowl of the Big Dipper.  Awesome seeing them flying in formation.   Last night they were barely visible and only appeared briefly by the end of the Big Dipper's handle every 30-40 seconds or so.   We wouldn't have seen them if we hadn't known exactly where to look.   It was almost like shooting stars where one person would see a brief faint streak and call it out in about the amount of time it would take for the satellite to disappear.

My wife and I will be at the Kejimkujik National Park Dark Sky Preserve in Nova Scotia in July and I'll be sure to see just how visible the passes are then.  I'm not too concerned.

[Lar]

Mods please move applicable posts here from this thread - https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47594.msg1950452#msg1950452

I've moved as many as I could find. Everyone please PM me with links to posts that should have been moved or weren't, or posts that were moved that should not have been.

Thanks

[flyright]

...
The proposed Starlink constellation will hardly blot out the existing sky, merely add to it. Might one propose that poets and artists up in arms about a striking addition to the night sky might instead use it to create new works of poetry and art?

I like this sentiment. To me seeing bright objects doing things up there among the stars is a thrilling experience. I always want to know what each is about.

I've tried to see Starlink on several passes now, but no luck so far. Mostly bad luck with clouds, but may have been off on timing also. I'll keep looking.

[Robotbeat]

...
The proposed Starlink constellation will hardly blot out the existing sky, merely add to it. Might one propose that poets and artists up in arms about a striking addition to the night sky might instead use it to create new works of poetry and art?

I like this sentiment. To me seeing bright objects doing things up there among the stars is a thrilling experience. I always want to know what each is about.

I've tried to see Starlink on several passes now, but no luck so far. Mostly bad luck with clouds, but may have been off on timing also. I'll keep looking.

They're pretty dim now, so keep your eyes well-adjusted.

[JAFO]

United flight 08 from Chengdu-Sfo, 0830ishZ, fl380, n37 e179.5-w179, had high hopes but I think we juuuuuussst missed them.      

[Norm38]

I realized tonight that I prize the stillness of the night sky.  I don't want to look up at the stars and see constant motion. I hope there's something they can do to make the satellites non-reflective. 

Do you feel the same way when you see shooting stars?  ISS pass over?  Jumbo jets cruising across the sky?  Clouds?  Bats?  The moon in a different spot every night?  The planets moving?

When has the night sky ever been still?

[chrisking0997]

I realized tonight that I prize the stillness of the night sky.  I don't want to look up at the stars and see constant motion. I hope there's something they can do to make the satellites non-reflective. 

Do you feel the same way when you see shooting stars?  ISS pass over?  Jumbo jets cruising across the sky?  Clouds?  Bats?  The moon in a different spot every night?  The planets moving?

When has the night sky ever been still?

not OP but I can answer for me as an amateur astronomer:

shooting stars - no, they are part of the sky in and of themselves
ISS - maybe, but one object that rarely shows up during the nighttime is hardly a bother 
Jumbo jets - yes
clouds - absolutely...can we get rid of them?
bats - Im not sure Ive ever heard of anyones astrophotography results or observing session being negatively affected by a bat.
planets and moon - no

I think you might have been taking "still" a little too literally.  Regardless, it is unavoidable that these sats will affect astronomy in some way (just as every sat before them has).  Whether or not it will be enough to matter is up for debate.  Its a reality astronomers will need to adjust to accordingly.  And unfortunately the vast majority of people will not care because they really dont care about the night sky anyways.  But Id rather have to adjust to these sats that actually provide value vs some "artist" throwing up some junk or a giant golden M floating across the sky.  Perhaps Ill feel differently when there are 12k of them up there

[Norm38]

We'll just have to move astronomy off world.  Will take care of those pesky clouds.

[Semmel]

I have done a second observation just a few minutes ago. They were very faint. Only visible when passing directly overhead and I only noticed them in the first place because some were doing very bright iridium flare like reflections. A totally different view then a few days ago.
First of all, I expected to see them at the tail of Leo (or the snout of the mouse of you, like me, find the star sign mis-attributed). I know from several sources that they had to pass close to Denebola (the star). However, I did not see them there, despite my efforts with a 60mm binocular and a 100mm telescope. The telescope had a too narrow field of view to find them directly, but I expected to see the first ones and guide it into their pass. I failed because they were so dim.
Second, I looked overhead to see them there with better success due to the flares. But from my location that was quite uncomfortable leaning out of the balcony like that, so I missed most of them. I saw maybe 5 or 6, I didnt count.
Just after Starlink, there were several other sats, that passed over in other directions that were much brighter and much more consistently bright.

If this effect is a sign of how they will be visible as a constellation, the concerns of some people are greatly exaggerated. I propose to relax and enjoy the show as long as it lasts. For me at least, its already over since I have no good way of observing them consistently.

[speedevil]

I have done a second observation just a few minutes ago. They were very faint.

Yesterday I had a look from 56N in scotland.
I saw one which I believe was probably Starlink, at perhaps magnitude 3.
The seeing conditions were poor, but there were very certainly not multiple sats  at magnitude 5.
(had 70mm binoculars pointed at trail of the bright one)
Saw about twelve other satellites during this time.
Quite rainy tonight, so chances for any of tonights passes seem 0.

[eriblo]

I'm far from an avid stargazer but I feel comfortable in saying that my night sky will not be ruined (and I mostly look for satellites anyway ). Had a pass yesterday and one tonight with the train passing right between α and ε Ser at maximum brightness. My sky is fairly bright and light polluted so I was both nights limited to about m=4.5 without aids (could just barely see λ Ser) and got a grand total of 3 easily visible Starlink satellites (m~3) and maybe 10 brighter passes from other random satellites from just looking at the sky for 20 minutes...

Both nights I also got 15-20 satellites in the first part of the train through my low-powered binoculars but I'd judge them to be at m=5 or below at maximum.

[su27k]

Interesting observation twitter thread from an astronomer: https://twitter.com/cgbassa/status/1133827825113423872

@cgbassa: Last night I observed two passes of the 60 @SpaceX #Starlink satellites. Though they are usually to faint to be seen with the naked eye, they flare regularly. In some cases, as this image shows, they can outshine the brightest stars in the night sky!

@cgbassa: Here are the same images as a video:   The #Starlink satellites are moving from the lower right to the upper left through the constellations of Bootes and Corona Borealis.  These are 120x15s exposures taken with an all sky camera between 21:40 and 22:10UTC.

@cgbassa: During the second pass (23:21 to 23:45UTC in the constellation of Lyra), I recorded raw video to get a better understanding of their behaviour.  Here are a bunch of them; some of them flare to magnitude +4 or +5, while some stay around magnitude +6.

@cgbassa: Upon reviewing the raw video frames, all 64 objects associated by @18SPCS to the #Starlink launch are visible. The four objects marked as debris (44295-44298) match predictions, and show different behaviour from the #Starlink satellites.

@cgbassa: This figure takes the individual video frames and tracks the brightness of each of the 64 #Starlink objects as they pass through the camera field-of-view. The four debris objects clearly stand out in their optical behaviour, while the payloads either flare or remain constant.

@cgbassa: None of the objects classified as payloads matched positions predicted by the CSpOC/@18SPCS orbital elements (then 1.4 days old), where as the four objects classified as debris did. This suggests that all 60 #Starlink satellites are operational and adjusting their orbits.

@cgbassa: Given that most of the #Starlink satellites showed flares in the same part of the sky seems to suggest that they are a similar configuration, leading to reflections of sunlight from the same reflective surfaces.

@cgbassa: Time will tell how the optical behaviour of these satellites will evolve. I have not seen any public information on the operational orientation of the #Starlink satellites, and which parts of their surfaces may lead to flares. Perhaps @elonmusk can share information on this?

@planet4589: Cees, just to clarify, do you see mag ~0 flares from the payloads sometimes, or only ever from the 4 debris objects?

@cgbassa: The magnitude -1 flares were from the payloads. The debris objects had already passed.

[Scylla]

SpaceX Starlink satellite train at dusk

Movie Vertigo

Published on May 28, 2019
Realtime video of the SpaceX Starlink satellite train, taken at 21:26 UTC on May 26, 2019 in the UK with a Canon EOS 5D Mark IV and 50mm f/1.8 lens. Shutter speed 1/25 sec. ISO 32000.  Noise reduced with Neat Video.

[OxCartMark]

Starlink satellite train, taken at 21:26 UTC on May 26, 2019 in the UK

Very nice, the best I've seen I think.
___________

You can see that the autonomous anti-collision system is working already, look at 1:08 in that video.  A gap was opened up in the train at the exact crossing point of that plane.   

[almightycat]

Now that the sats are starting to arrive at their final altitude, are they as visible as they were at first or have they lost their reflectiveness? unfortunately I live a little to far north to check myself . I'm curious if anyone has concrete numbers on their albedo now vs other satellites.

[guckyfan]

Now that the sats are starting to arrive at their final altitude, are they as visible as they were at first or have they lost their reflectiveness? unfortunately I live a little to far north to check myself . I'm curious if anyone has concrete numbers on their albedo now vs other satellites.

Look at Heavens above

https://www.heavens-above.com

They give magnitude for satellites visible at your location. The brightest I find for my location is now mag +3.0. That may not be bright enough to be visible over local light pollution at the darkest point near to my place at the outer city limits of Berlin, Germany. Mostly they are much dimmer than that.

[gongora]

https://twitter.com/planet4589/status/1150940486355628034

Meanwhile,  the first Starlink batch is now starting to be visible in the N hemisphere again. Early days, but it looks like observations are ranging from mag 4 to mag 7 or so - i.e. many are faint, but some are rather bright at least some of the time. Better info in coming weeks

[high road]

Apparently, this is the thread for this question:

Is there a way to know when the line of Starlink satellites will pass overhead? So a map with the trajectory and time after launch, or somesuch? I'd love to see that with my own eyes. Considering I live in an area with extensive artificial lighting, my chances to discern anything are pretty low, so I'd love to at least know when I should be looking.

Now that the second set of Starlink sats has launched, and we had this beautiful graphic of where the second stage was during the coast phase, is it possible to extrapolate this to the trajectory in the upcoming week to see when the sats would pass over a specific location?

[joncz]

https://www.heavens-above.com/PassSummary.aspx?satid=70003

[Mandella]

I used these guys last time to good effect also:

https://www.n2yo.com/

[2megs]

The satellites from this morning's launch were easily seen at the time and track from Heaven's Above. All in one line; I'd guesstimate about 3 degrees from start to end. Clearly visible to the naked eye, above DC city lights, for the entire transit. At one point they all flared in pretty close to unison.

[Comga]

We looked from south Florida before 6PM, but the sky was still bright, there were many clouds, and the maximum elevation was 13 degrees.
Everyone has an excuse. Those are mime.
Better viewing tomorrow, although they will have started spreading out
Even better on Wednesday, with a max elevation of 78 degrees, but by then they probably be resolved as discrete objects in a thin line.
Not as good as the show last May a few hours after launch.

[wxmeddler]

Tried looking from Fargo SW, on the chance that I might get it on the horizon (we are very flat here), but no luck..

[wxmeddler]

Seen over Seattle though with a 300mm lens.
https://twitter.com/JosephGruber/status/1194049362172600320

[jketch]

Saw them from Fremont, CA just under an hour after sunset. My viewing conditions were far from ideal, I was in a brightly lit park, with occasional hazy clouds reflecting the suburban lights. Despite this, I was able to see the sat train very clearly. I first noticed them to the SW about 45 degrees above the horizon. There were six or so bright dots visible with what looked like a pretty dim line connecting them. They traveled eastward and I lost them as they dipped below about 20 degrees. Doubt I would have seen them if I didn't know exactly when and where to look. They more or less exactly followed the track predicted by heavens-above.

https://www.heavens-above.com/PassSummary.aspx?satid=70003

[gchockry]

Jack Beyer in Los Angeles
https://twitter.com/thejackbeyer/status/1194078953108987904

David Hash in SF Bay Area
https://twitter.com/turndownformars/status/1194077202763005953

[c3infinity]

I'll add my plug for heavens above. The pass was not quite directly overhead, but easily visible with just a bit of cloud cover. Most seemed to be fairly steady with just a few that brightned or dimmed noticeably. I didn't get to see any right after the first launch, so this was pretty neat.

[kaiser]

Very faint tonight here in New Mexico, but pretty cool nonetheless.

[thirtyone]

Saw them in LA today *and* yesterday; Heavens Above has some pretty decent predictions. It appears as if they've already spread out quite a bit, couldn't see all in the sky at the same time today, but it was also pretty low on the horizon. I don't have a lot of experience with satellite tracking though.

They were quite bright, especially given that the LA sky is actually fairly smoggy today and has a ton of light pollution.

Caught some other pretty bright satellites today with Heavens Above as well. Their app is extremely useful for figuring out roughly where to look in the sky (compasses are often not that accurate though, so keep that in mind). Only plugging because it really made finding the satellites much easier for novices like me.

I won't get another visible pass for at least a week - I'd imagine in a lot of areas, if you missed these passes, you might have to wait until the next launch, which luckily will not be all that long from now.

[xyv]

Well I thought I captured the whole thing on video.  I had never tried that feature on my DSLR and somehow in the dark probably turned it off for most of the pass.   Out of what was left I could get one screen cap - this is what it looked like in Santa Barbara - same pass as the above videos.  Heavens-above was spot on.

[gongora]

https://twitter.com/TSKelso/status/1194875381666455553

BIG thanks to @SpaceX for allowing us to use their #Starlink ephemerides (for both launches) posted on Space Track to create supplemental TLEs for CelesTrak users! You can find them at: https://celestrak.com/NORAD/elements/supplemental/.

[ZChris13]

So that's an achievement for 2020 down early: Just witnessed a Starlink train at over 60° elevation in a perfectly clear sky on a field outside of Munich. The spacing and speed really gives a nice preview of how the system is supposed to work when it's at full density and what a hard job the receivers will have.

Now if only my Lumia 950 hadn't died last year...

[Comga]

We interrupt this calm, careful monitoring of the evolution of the orbits of the Starlink satellites to say

WE JUST SAW TWO TRAINS OF STARLINK SATELLITES!

From south Florida through partly cloudy skies.
Heavens Above has yet to update their orbit data (It says epoch Jan 7.) but we watched Hubble go almost directly overhead a few minutes after the stale prediction for the Starlink satellites launched Monday (which I also saw!)

A few minutes after that the Starlink satellites appeared, one after another, between ~5-10 degrees apart. Real bright. Pretty evenly spaced.  Peaked just to our south but very high overhead. We didn’t count but there were twenty or so, maybe more.

A few minutes later more satellites, going the same direction, but fainter and peaking just to the North. I assume this is the previous set, 1.0 Launch 1.  These we counted:7.  Popped into view within a fraction of a degree of Venus, which helped my eyes focus and point steadily.

I had four people watching with me. Everyone enjoyed the show. Breathtaking!

Edit:Thanks to the moderator for moving this post to this appropriate thread.

[Comga]

Despite the hyperlink still saying “Starlink - 3rd launch placeholder” Heavens Above now has current orbits for all three Starlink launch groups.

[nuukee]

I have yet to see a Starlink train, but am struggling to get the times right.
I used heavens above for the last couple of days, but during the predicted times nothing was visible, even though they were supposed to be bighter than Venus which was clearly visible.
I just tried three different sites (satflare.com, me.cmdr2.org/starlink, heavens-above) and getting three different times for my location? It also does not help that there does not seem to be a consistent naming of the sats.

Based on your experience, what is the best website to track the sats?
Thanks!!

[Semmel]

Is there a prediction of the orbital path for the starlink satellites that launch on Friday? Given the time and track, it might be visible in Europe in the evening. Waiting to see the starlink immediately after launch here, always bad luck on the weather or orbital path in the past.

[Comga]

I have yet to see a Starlink train, but am struggling to get the times right.
I used heavens above for the last couple of days, but during the predicted times nothing was visible, even though they were supposed to be bighter than Venus which was clearly visible.
I just tried three different sites (satflare.com, me.cmdr2.org/starlink, heavens-above) and getting three different times for my location? It also does not help that there does not seem to be a consistent naming of the sats.

Based on your experience, what is the best website to track the sats?
Thanks!!

I trust Heavens Above
Be sure to set your location correctly and check the time offset to UTC. It’s easy to get the longitude reversed East to west.
Their page on the leading V1L2 satellite says Heavens-Above pulled down the orbit data today, so the predictions should be real good.
Note that if the data gets stale, while the orbits are being raised the passes will be a few minutes later and a bit farther East each day. This happened for my observation of the V1L2 train above.
Note that Heavens-Above says that the first satellite is already at 370 km, 100 km higher that it’s initial orbit, and that they are all above Magnitude 5 for fairly low passes tonight here.  These will be hard to spot in anything but totally clear skies.

[niwax]

I have yet to see a Starlink train, but am struggling to get the times right.
I used heavens above for the last couple of days, but during the predicted times nothing was visible, even though they were supposed to be bighter than Venus which was clearly visible.
I just tried three different sites (satflare.com, me.cmdr2.org/starlink, heavens-above) and getting three different times for my location? It also does not help that there does not seem to be a consistent naming of the sats.

Based on your experience, what is the best website to track the sats?
Thanks!!

I trust Heavens Above
Be sure to set your location correctly and check the time offset to UTC.

This is the most important thing and my one annoyance with Heavens Above. If you don't explicitly set a location it defaults to null,null as opposed to most websites which either prompt you or try to infer a location. I've looked forward to seeing satellites a few times, luckily noticing the error before heading out.

[gongora]

One thing to keep in mind if you're not looking right after the launch is that they start spreading out quickly.  I think a week ago the last launch was already a train that would take over half an hour to fully see.  It's a good idea to find one of the animations showing all of the satellites and find the ID number of one from the leading edge of the train to make sure you're looking at the right time/place to see most of them.  Choosing a random satellite from the launch and getting the pass time for it might not give you the desired results.

[2megs]

Heavens Above now has preliminary pass information for this morning's launch.

https://heavens-above.com/PassSummary.aspx?satid=72001

[gongora]

https://twitter.com/TSKelso/status/1222747573951389697

1/3 If you’ve been wondering why you can’t see the new #Starlink satellites in the Northern Hemisphere right now, here’s why. This shows the areas on the Earth where STARLINK-1194 is visible—more than 10 deg above the horizon, Sun below -6 deg, & satellite in sunlight--each day.

2/3 Here is a short video clip showing these visibility areas day by day from Jan 30 to Feb 13. While this video assumes no changes in the orbit (maneuvers), it clearly shows what I refer to as visibility seasons for a satellite: https://celestrak.com/pub/video/STARLINK-1194-Visibility.mov

3/3 These visibility seasons are why you can see the ISS for a week or two and then it isn't visible for another week or two. I find it fascinating how the seasons evolve for different types of orbits. I hope you do, too. [Images generated with #STK Coverage]

[FutureSpaceTourist]

Here’s that twitter thread, and referenced video, on YouTube:

[AndrewRG10]

Starlink L5 just flew over my house 45 minutes after sunset at altitude of 350km. 1 fairly bright one in the lead separated half a degree from the rest which were much dimmer. Even with some decently powered binoculars the 59 in the trail were quite dim, probably Mag 3 or 4.
Definitely coolest thing I've ever seen but I will say they look better a couple days after launch

[gongora]

https://twitter.com/ralfvandebergh/status/1243175334817734657

My best close-up image of a Starlink-2 satellite, this frame from an imaging session on March 24 shows clearly the (flat) satellite bus and solar panel. Info: https://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=160272

[HVM]

https://twitter.com/turndownformars/status/1233235459762843653
There's old tweet for size, (4x15 m). It's not far for my estimate; from F9 fairing inside diameter 4.5 m and SpX CAD visualizations ~3 x 1.5 x 12 m

[niwax]

Slightly postponed my daily isolation walk to find a murmuration of Starlinks crossing just under the big dipper.

Does one of the tracking afficionados on here know if one of the satellites is ever so slightly out of plane (second image)?

[harrystranger]

I finally did my first Starlink spotting attempt. It wasn't the best (I'll blame allergies) but it's something! + The list of sats I was looking for.
https://twitter.com/HarryStrangerPG/status/1253628876128784384?s

[ZChris13]

The June 4th ~9:35 PM eastern time pass for the Southeastern United States was absolutely beautiful. They were glittering.

[WannaWalnetto]

I’m not sure if this should go in the v1.0 L7 Update / Discussion thread, or the spotting thread at https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47030.0 ; or the current Starlink general discussion thread at https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48297.0 ; or possibly even the thread about the effect of satellite constellations on astronomy thread https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48302.0 . 

Since I think this might have something to do with the new sunglasses on the pizza boxes, I’ll put it in the L7 discussion and trust that the mods will move it if need be.

Let me preface this by saying I am a novice at spotting sky objects.  Using the data found at n2yo.com, I saw that I had two visible passes of the ISS about an hour after dark occurring the last two days (June 3rd and 4th).  I had no trouble spotting the station, and it was quite a treat!  I was surprised by how bright it actually appeared as it moved quickly across the sky.

Based on that success, I thought I would enjoy seeing Starlink.  I found that the Starlink train would be passing almost directly overhead about 20 minutes after the ISS (yesterday the 4th).  I’ve seen many posts / pictures in these forums describing observations from all around the globe, so I thought this would be easy.

It wasn’t. I could NOT see the train until it was almost directly overhead, and even then I almost missed it.  To my eyes it was the faintest hair-thin wisp of a line that I would never have seen if I did not know exactly where to look, and when.  What I expected to be a several minute viewing window lasted a little more than 40 seconds for me.

Since I don’t have any previous experience viewing a Starlink train, I can’t tell how the L7 bunch compares to the other launches.  But this pass came almost exactly 24 hours after launch, so I expected it to be much more visible than it was. 

Does this mean that the new sunshade is having the desired effect on visibility?

[salpun]

Probable means they are edge on already.

[cppetrie]

I’m not sure if this should go in the v1.0 L7 Update / Discussion thread, or the spotting thread at https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47030.0 ; or the current Starlink general discussion thread at https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48297.0 ; or possibly even the thread about the effect of satellite constellations on astronomy thread https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48302.0 . 

Since I think this might have something to do with the new sunglasses on the pizza boxes, I’ll put it in the L7 discussion and trust that the mods will move it if need be.

Let me preface this by saying I am a novice at spotting sky objects.  Using the data found at n2yo.com, I saw that I had two visible passes of the ISS about an hour after dark occurring the last two days (June 3rd and 4th).  I had no trouble spotting the station, and it was quite a treat!  I was surprised by how bright it actually appeared as it moved quickly across the sky.

Based on that success, I thought I would enjoy seeing Starlink.  I found that the Starlink train would be passing almost directly overhead about 20 minutes after the ISS (yesterday the 4th).  I’ve seen many posts / pictures in these forums describing observations from all around the globe, so I thought this would be easy.

It wasn’t. I could NOT see the train until it was almost directly overhead, and even then I almost missed it.  To my eyes it was the faintest hair-thin wisp of a line that I would never have seen if I did not know exactly where to look, and when.  What I expected to be a several minute viewing window lasted a little more than 40 seconds for me.

Since I don’t have any previous experience viewing a Starlink train, I can’t tell how the L7 bunch compares to the other launches.  But this pass came almost exactly 24 hours after launch, so I expected it to be much more visible than it was. 

Does this mean that the new sunshade is having the desired effect on visibility?

My understanding is that the sunshades are for use when they are in their operational orbit and orientation. Also, only one of the satellites from this launch has a shade. As another post noted, they have also changed the orientation during orbit raise to reduce brightness starting with this launch. My guess is that the orientation change is most responsible for the reduction in brightness. The sats do change brightness as they arc across the sky as well.

On a side note, the length of the show depends on how much the sats have spread out. The closer to launch the closer they are spaced and the quicker the show is over. I spotted the last batch about 5 days after launch and it lasted a solid couple minutes but they were much more spread out.

[gongora]

The June 4th ~9:35 PM eastern time pass for the Southeastern United States was absolutely beautiful. They were glittering.

They were beautiful and glittering for the one second I saw them through a gap in the clouds, with lightning behind me to the west.  I didn't bother trying to get up at 5:30am to see them again..

[Semmel]

From Berlin, they just passed overhead. I didnt count them but seemed many. Also, interestingly, they all flared at the same location in the sky. I havent seen that before in starlinks passing by. This means, they all had the same orientation at the same location in sky, which means they are well in control and healthy.

[guckyfan]

From Berlin, they just passed overhead. I didnt count them but seemed many. Also, interestingly, they all flared at the same location in the sky. I havent seen that before in starlinks passing by. This means, they all had the same orientation at the same location in sky, which means they are well in control and healthy.

I was out for a look at 11:20 PM yesterday, also Berlin. The sky was only slightly hazed but I did see nothing. Very disappointing after I had seen a few vey bright through a small hole in the clouds a day earlier.

OT Edit: Where do you come from if you call a Schrippe Semmel?

[Semmel]

From Berlin, they just passed overhead. I didnt count them but seemed many. Also, interestingly, they all flared at the same location in the sky. I havent seen that before in starlinks passing by. This means, they all had the same orientation at the same location in sky, which means they are well in control and healthy.

I was out for a look at 11:20 PM yesterday, also Berlin. The sky was only slightly hazed but I did see nothing. Very disappointing after I had seen a few vey bright through a small hole in the clouds a day earlier.

OT Edit: Where do you come from if you call a Schrippe Semmel?

I only saw them 20 deg from zenith, they were pretty hard to see in the city glare + twilight + haze. I had the advantage that I knew where to look and I went 5 mins early to get my eyes dark adapted.

PS:
I know its off topic, but ohh well... A Schrippe has primarily this shape:

The image I use for my user pic is the Austrian 'Semmel', sometimes called 'Kaisersemmel'. I got that name after a friend continuously called me that whenever I made a minor mistake in the execution of an otherwise brilliant plan.. which lead to its ultimate demise. And I was born in a small town near Bernburg called Strenzfeld. To all you American readers: it is as funny as it sounds Try say it out loud with a bad German accent! Also, it fits my user name pretty well in concept and tone. It doesnt get more backwater than that.

[CJ]

Anyone having any luck spotting Starlink "sky trains"?

I'm using Heavens Above, and stayed up until after 4am this morning, trying to spot the Starkink 8 sats. A pass was predicted at mag 1.7, becoming visible right near Jupiter and Saturn (thus easy to spot, I thought).

I'm in a fairly dark sky (well away from cities and towns) high altitude location in northern Arizona, and I have absolutely no trouble at all seeing Polaris as a bright star (even at partial disk and dawn) at mag 8.7 with unaided vision (it's one of the few stars I can both identify and name). Jupiter and Saturn were very, very bright.  Yet, even alternating good binoculars with unaided eyesight, I could not see ANY sats along the Starlink predicted path, though I did spot a couple of sats (including one heading ENE) but none even close to Starlink's predicted path and heading. I kept trying for about ten minutes, just in case.

I've tried Starlink train spotting several times in recent months, always within a few days of launch, and so far, nothing.

     

[rsdavis9]

Anyone having any luck spotting Starlink "sky trains"?

I'm using Heavens Above, and stayed up until after 4am this morning, trying to spot the Starkink 8 sats. A pass was predicted at mag 1.7, becoming visible right near Jupiter and Saturn (thus easy to spot, I thought).

I'm in a fairly dark sky (well away from cities and towns) high altitude location in northern Arizona, and I have absolutely no trouble at all seeing Polaris as a bright star (even at partial disk and dawn) at mag 8.7 with unaided vision (it's one of the few stars I can both identify and name). Jupiter and Saturn were very, very bright.  Yet, even alternating good binoculars with unaided eyesight, I could not see ANY sats along the Starlink predicted path, though I did spot a couple of sats (including one heading ENE) but none even close to Starlink's predicted path and heading. I kept trying for about ten minutes, just in case.

I've tried Starlink train spotting several times in recent months, always within a few days of launch, and so far, nothing.

   

Polaris is at a visual magnitude of 2.0.
The 8.7 magnitude is for one of the components of the tripple star system.
I tried to see the last launch(L7) a few days after launch. I saw one object and a flash from one nearby. I have a friend and he saw 43 but with binoculars.

So the  new attitude while raising seems to have dropped the magnitude to around 5 or 6.

[Thorny]

Anyone having any luck spotting Starlink "sky trains"?

I saw them from San Angelo, Texas 100 minutes after launch on Saturday morning. I was outside my apartment complex surrounded by security and street lights and had no trouble seeing them. Somewhere between Magnitude 1 and 2, I'd say. The length of the train was about twice, maybe three times the diameter of the full moon. I saw a sporadic flasher half a train length behind the train itself, maybe Stage 2 or one of the Skysats?

I have a video taken with my phone, but the quality is not great.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i6trlfugqbxc00l/Starlink%208%20Flyover.mp4?dl=0

[Ghoti]

Anyone having any luck spotting Starlink "sky trains"?

I'm using Heavens Above, and stayed up until after 4am this morning, trying to spot the Starkink 8 sats. A pass was predicted at mag 1.7, becoming visible right near Jupiter and Saturn (thus easy to spot, I thought).

I'm in a fairly dark sky (well away from cities and towns) high altitude location in northern Arizona, and I have absolutely no trouble at all seeing Polaris as a bright star (even at partial disk and dawn) at mag 8.7 with unaided vision (it's one of the few stars I can both identify and name). Jupiter and Saturn were very, very bright.  Yet, even alternating good binoculars with unaided eyesight, I could not see ANY sats along the Starlink predicted path, though I did spot a couple of sats (including one heading ENE) but none even close to Starlink's predicted path and heading. I kept trying for about ten minutes, just in case.

I've tried Starlink train spotting several times in recent months, always within a few days of launch, and so far, nothing.

   

Seems like the Starlink sats are much less visible than you'd imagine from the uproar. I've tried to spot several trains with little success. A train of 9 from L6  went overhead and I was only able to see one of them. The full set of newly launched L7 wasn't visible to me at all. I've been using "See a Satellite Tonight" to spot them and it even shows you where to spot them with your neighborhood street view images to make it very clear.

[rsdavis9]

Anyone having any luck spotting Starlink "sky trains"?

I saw them from San Angelo, Texas 100 minutes after launch on Saturday morning. I was outside my apartment complex surrounded by security and street lights and had no trouble seeing them. Somewhere between Magnitude 1 and 2, I'd say. The length of the train was about twice, maybe three times the diameter of the full moon. I saw a sporadic flasher half a train length behind the train itself, maybe Stage 2 or one of the Skysats?

I have a video taken with my phone, but the quality is not great.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i6trlfugqbxc00l/Starlink%208%20Flyover.mp4?dl=0

From a different thread it appears that the S2 is dumped on the first orbit off of western mexico.

[rsdavis9]

So I wonder if the different magnitude is related to hours/days after launch. When first launched they probably are not adjusting attitude for a while(days?). My observation(or lack of) was 2 days after launch.

[Semmel]

Heavens above is pretty good, but doesn't know everything. Make sure it has your exact geo coordinates. Also expect to have +-5 min in the actual timing and maybe small changes in position. Also, the sats sometimes are in earth shadow for parts of their pass at your location.
I spotted the previous train only above 60 deg above horizon. Jupiter is pretty low on the northern hemisphere right now, I would not expect to see starlink near it at moment.

[ZChris13]

Anyone having any luck spotting Starlink "sky trains"?

I had an excellent pass on June 4th, which was ~24 hours after a launch. If you want to see them you need them to be freshly launched, it seems.

[Tonelyr]

Hey everyone,

We made a small website to track and get information about all starlink satellites in sky right now.
We'd like to hear your comments and opinion about the website, here's the link https://starlinkradar.com/ (I don't know if it's authorized, if it's not, I will remove the post)

If some are interested in this project, you can contact us on one of these two email adresses :
[email protected] , [email protected]

Thank you all and have a wonderful day !

[rsdavis9]

Hey everyone,

We made a small website to track and get information about all starlink satellites in sky right now.
We'd like to hear your comments and opinion about the website, here's the link https://starlinkradar.com/ (I don't know if it's authorized, if it's not, I will remove the post)

If some are interested in this project, you can contact us on one of these two email adresses :
[email protected] , [email protected]

Thank you all and have a wonderful day !

Can you give a brief guide to the meaning of "adjusted elevation" and "cap angle"

[Tonelyr]

Hi rsdavis9,

The cap angle is the Spherical cap (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_cap), but you replace the sphere as the Earth and the h paramater is the elevation of the satellite from Earth center . It's based on the Spherical Earth Model

The adjusted elevation parameter is the quotient of altitude (in m) divided by Earth radius ( in m).

Hope you like our tracker and we'd love to hear your feedback.

Have a nice evening.

Tonelyr.

[bulkmail]

Hey everyone,

We made a small website to track and get information about all starlink satellites in sky right now.
We'd like to hear your comments and opinion about the website, here's the link https://starlinkradar.com/ (I don't know if it's authorized, if it's not, I will remove the post)

If some are interested in this project, you can contact us on one of these two email adresses :
[email protected] , [email protected]

Thank you all and have a wonderful day !

Great work!

Do you show somehow the orbital height (340km, 550km, etc.) - color, hovering tooltip, etc. (in general would be nice if hover/click on satellite gives more info - unique ID, launch, Ku/Ka/inter-link/V, etc.)?
Can you make a toggle to show the coverage of the ground stations?
When zooming out can you switch to a spherical globe instead of flat projection (to avoid the distortion of the poles)?

[Suzy]

Did I see a batch of Starlink satellites passing over Melbourne this morning, around 5:15 a.m.? Quite a stunning and unexpected sight if they were - all traveling in a line northeast!
Edit: yes they were! What were these lights in the sky over eastern Australia?

[AndrewRG10]

Suzy's comment actually re-sparked my hunt to see these satellites. I haven't bothered getting up for them since they put shades on then.
So this morning I went out and saw the L23 satellites and they're still as bright as Saturn. Even 30 minutes before sunrise in a suburban city living they're visible with the naked eye.

So yeh don't give up trying to look for them, turn on your notifications for whatever app you use, they're very much still visible for your enjoyment

[Citabria]

HA predicted an overhead pass of 40+ Starlinks in 5 minutes at 2.6 magnitude tonight. Easy naked eye, right? The track was between the Big Dipper and Leo, so easy to spot. Well, they were not visible except as brief but bright flashes in Leo's hindquarters, more like Iridium flares.

[CJ]

I've been trying to spot a skytrain for a while, with no success. Until today that is, when I saw one purely by accident. I was outside just after twilight at approx 9pm Arizona time, and glanced up to see a long string of very bright (a bit brighter than the typical bright stars in the sky, about twice the brightness of Polaris) lights heading a bit east of north. For a minute or so, they stretched across most of the sky. The gap between them looked fairly (though not exactly) uniform, at about 1 degree of arc (two full moons). 

They were spectacular, and I'm very glad I've finally seen them.

In case it helps anyone, I'll mention that they were at around 45 degrees elevation to my west, just after local twilight. I'm guessing that the sun angle on them has a lot to do with their apparent magnitude.

For anyone out there who has yet to see a skytrain, I assure you it's well worth the effort.

Edit: I have now identified this skytrain, and to my surprise it's the April 29th launch (L24), NOT the May 4th launch as I'd assumed. 

[laszlo]

I just had eye surgery to remove cataracts last week. That also got rid of my lifelong astigmatism at the same time. The difference is phenomenal! I was able to easily spot all 7 major stars in the Pleiades with a possible 7th and 8th with the naked eye. I also saw the Andromeda galaxy with naked eyes, even though I live in a light-polluted suburb. Jupiter's Galilean moons are easy with a 10x25 set of binoculars.

The relevance of all this to this thread is that while I was trying out my new eyes, every 5 to 10 minutes a new very dim satellite would pass overhead. They were visible in 7x50 binoculars as they traveled across the Milky Way, generally north/south, about 2 hours after sunset, but invisible to the naked eye. This went on for about 45 minutes before I headed inside. Since I was mostly interested in what I could see, I wasn't keeping any proper notes so I don't have any quantitative information like magnitude, inclination, angular speed, timing, etc. but I was wondering if this was similar to what experienced Starlink watchers have seen.

The next morning I watched a pair of satellites crossing Orion. They were as bright as his sword, one was going more or less west/east and the other was angled about 30 degrees higher heading SW/NE. They actually crossed paths in Orion. This was about 2 hours before sunrise. Same question, is Starlink-like behavior?

I plan on getting set up again with proper tools (notebook, timer, voice recorder, star charts, etc.) for satellite tracking and will visit the Starlink tracking websites so I'll have some hard data to process soon.