Author Topic: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9  (Read 313198 times)

Offline envy887

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #820 on: 02/19/2019 11:00 pm »
e. The State of Texas discovers a need to expand Boca Chica State Park.  Houses are added to the Park for that very public purpose, thus solving the problem SpaceX was having with vaporizing civilians.

Nobody is vaporizing anyone. If the village was such a big problem SpaceX wouldn't be allowed to launch F9 or FH there.

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #821 on: 02/19/2019 11:39 pm »
e. The State of Texas discovers a need to expand Boca Chica State Park.  Houses are added to the Park for that very public purpose, thus solving the problem SpaceX was having with vaporizing civilians.

Nobody is vaporizing anyone. If the village was such a big problem SpaceX wouldn't be allowed to launch F9 or FH there.
Well, I hope you are right.  Some of the villagers are very nice folks. :) 

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #822 on: 02/20/2019 01:24 am »
e. The State of Texas discovers a need to expand Boca Chica State Park.  Houses are added to the Park for that very public purpose, thus solving the problem SpaceX was having with vaporizing civilians.

Nobody is vaporizing anyone. If the village was such a big problem SpaceX wouldn't be allowed to launch F9 or FH there.
If I wanted to worry about gasifying, I'd worry about the big LNG plants going in several miles away.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Online Wolfram66

e. The State of Texas discovers a need to expand Boca Chica State Park.  Houses are added to the Park for that very public purpose, thus solving the problem SpaceX was having with vaporizing civilians.

Nobody is vaporizing anyone. If the village was such a big problem SpaceX wouldn't be allowed to launch F9 or FH there.
If I wanted to worry about gasifying, I'd worry about the big LNG plants going in several miles away.

And a little cautionary tale from history. Oct. 20, 1944
http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/w/East_Ohio_Gas_Company_Explosion
« Last Edit: 02/20/2019 01:51 am by Wolfram66 »

Offline SPITexas

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #824 on: 02/20/2019 05:20 am »
At this point, now that SpaceX is serious about building both stages at Boca Chica and sending the raptor engines over.  I believe musk might decide to launch from a offshore launch pad in the gulf.  assemble it and deliver it all the way over to Florida wouldn’t it be easier and quicker if it was just a couple miles away. From Boca Chica.
« Last Edit: 02/20/2019 05:27 am by SPITexas »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #825 on: 02/20/2019 07:22 am »
https://twitter.com/rogerlewisholt/status/1098133466791755776

Quote
The pipe work on the burn off seams to have been connected up now.
@John_Gardi @Avron_p @CowboyDanPaasch
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Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #826 on: 02/20/2019 09:19 am »
... now that SpaceX is serious about building both stages at Boca Chica and sending the raptor engines over...

Is this confirmed?

Yes, Musk has confirmed that the prototype "hopper" Starship will be built in Boca Chica, and we can see it happening.

But for the actual orbital Starship and Super Heavy booster, when I checked this, it seems Elon denied it on Twitter.

Since that denial, there was a Teslarati article that found a SpaceX job posting which mentions a "SpaceX South Texas build site".  The Teslarati article then goes on to speculate that the "SpaceX South Texas build site" means Boca Chica.

However, a "SpaceX South Texas build site" could mean many things.  Among them, a facility along the Port of Brownsville channel, allowing BFR to be shipped to any location in the world, including an offshore pad near Boca Chica.
« Last Edit: 02/20/2019 09:27 am by Dave G »

Online enbandi

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #827 on: 02/20/2019 09:51 am »
However, a "SpaceX South Texas build site" could mean many things.  Among them, a facility along the Port of Brownsville channel, allowing BFR to be shipped to any location in the world, including an offshore pad near Boca Chica.

I found this argument about a possible Port of Bronswille facility in multiple threads/posts, but without any facts or evidence. For whom are interested in data digging the Port Comission meeting agendas are public and I haven't found a single clue about a possible lease to any of the known SpaceX subsidiaries. Also who are interested in this is a searchable GIS map of Cameron County, in which you can find all the Boca Chica real estate (to Dogleg Park LLC) but nothing else nearby.

The missing evidence is not a proof against that there will be another facility in Brownswille or nearby, but in this case I think it is a quite strong hypothesis. However, the map and the agendas are quite detailed, so somebody may find something in them. Happy digging.

[Edit: spelling and formatting]
« Last Edit: 02/20/2019 10:13 am by enbandi »

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #828 on: 02/20/2019 11:53 am »
However, a "SpaceX South Texas build site" could mean many things.  Among them, a facility along the Port of Brownsville channel, allowing BFR to be shipped to any location in the world, including an offshore pad near Boca Chica.

I found this argument about a possible Port of Bronswille facility in multiple threads/posts, but without any facts or evidence. For whom are interested in data digging the Port Comission meeting agendas are public and I haven't found a single clue about a possible lease to any of the known SpaceX subsidiaries. Also who are interested in this is a searchable GIS map of Cameron County, in which you can find all the Boca Chica real estate (to Dogleg Park LLC) but nothing else nearby.

The missing evidence is not a proof against that there will be another facility in Brownswille or nearby, but in this case I think it is a quite strong hypothesis. However, the map and the agendas are quite detailed, so somebody may find something in them. Happy digging.

[Edit: spelling and formatting]

The first orbital launch of BFR may use an off shore launch pad. That came from Elon himself.

And we now have evidence that Starship and Super Heavy will be built at a new "SpaceX South Texas build site". This came from SpaceX job postings.

If the new SpaceX South Texas build site is located in Boca Chica, it would be a lot more difficult to get BFR/BFS to an off shore launch pad.  So one logical possibility is that the "SpaceX South Texas build site" is located along a shipping lane.

As for the online Cameron County real estate map, if you look at my posts on this thread over the past 7 years, you'll know I'm very familiar with this site.  The problem here is that this site is being updated much more slowly than it used to be. For example, after Nomadd verified that SpaceX purchased the big LBJ house, it took 1-2 years before that fact was reflected in the online map. So searching this map now won't give an accurate indication of whether or not SpaceX has purchased any property recently. In addition, SpaceX has purchased lots in Boca Chica under other names than "Dogleg Park LLC".  For example, some lots were purchased under the name "The Flats at Mars Crossing LLC".

Another issue with locating the new "SpaceX South Texas build site" in Boca Chica - since everyone knows about this site, many real estate speculators have purchased lots there, most likely hoping to get a high price from SpaceX for this land.  You can see this reflected on the online map.  For the current BFH construction area, many of the lots around this area have been sold within the last 3-5 years to companies that seem to specialize in real estate speculation.  So building a facility large enough to manufacture BFR could be problematic.

Online enbandi

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #829 on: 02/20/2019 02:37 pm »
.....
The first orbital launch of BFR may use an off shore launch pad. That came from Elon himself.

And we now have evidence that Starship and Super Heavy will be built at a new "SpaceX South Texas build site". This came from SpaceX job postings.

If the new SpaceX South Texas build site is located in Boca Chica, it would be a lot more difficult to get BFR/BFS to an off shore launch pad.  So one logical possibility is that the "SpaceX South Texas build site" is located along a shipping lane.

As for the online Cameron County real estate map, if you look at my posts on this thread over the past 7 years, you'll know I'm very familiar with this site.  The problem here is that this site is being updated much more slowly than it used to be. For example, after Nomadd verified that SpaceX purchased the big LBJ house, it took 1-2 years before that fact was reflected in the online map. So searching this map now won't give an accurate indication of whether or not SpaceX has purchased any property recently. In addition, SpaceX has purchased lots in Boca Chica under other names than "Dogleg Park LLC".  For example, some lots were purchased under the name "The Flats at Mars Crossing LLC".

Another issue with locating the new "SpaceX South Texas build site" in Boca Chica - since everyone knows about this site, many real estate speculators have purchased lots there, most likely hoping to get a high price from SpaceX for this land.  You can see this reflected on the online map.  For the current BFH construction area, many of the lots around this area have been sold within the last 3-5 years to companies that seem to specialize in real estate speculation.  So building a facility large enough to manufacture BFR could be problematic.

It is not against you, I simply want to point to the fact, that we have no evidence or a single clue about a new location. Yes, if the launch pad will be somewhere else or on a platform, then a water bound location seems logical. But it is a big IF, without supporting info about any activity outside BC. And since the LA factory was well under preparation, if they try to apply similar schedules they may be well in the preparation of the new site by now (if it exists), so we should see something somewhere. The fact that they are hiring to that location by now, also pushing the timeline. Therefore the missing clues can be some faint indirect hits toward that (one of) the known BC locations are actually the building site.

As I read the job postings the SS/SH will be build or assembled in a "South Texas build site". All the job postings specify Brownsville as location, so it will be the Brownsville area (still can be BC). It will be a new site (meaning the infrastructure, equipment, positions etc...) but we don't know if it will be on a new real estate, or simply utilization of the existing ones. (Job postings doesn't mention "new location", and from job  perspective the new infrastructure on existing locations can be worded as a new location).

You are the expert of the GIS map: if it is out of date, we cannot use it as an indicator. But the port meeting agendas seems clear enough: if they are going to lease a parcel in the developed area of the port (similar to LA) I think that should be mentioned in the public records, and I was unable to find anything (subleases also mentioned). But I think the port area/control is only applies to some parts of the channel, maybe from the fishing harbour, so locations in the undeveloped part are not ruled out.

As another idea: if they want to start a new factory that should have some official permits. I am not familiar with the local legal environment, but environmental permits are exists and available. Searching these databases I was able only to find the existing McGregor and BC sites/activities. I think this is another data point against the new site theory.

[edit: spelling]
« Last Edit: 02/20/2019 02:42 pm by enbandi »

Online spacenut

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #830 on: 02/20/2019 02:52 pm »
Someone else may chime in, but in some areas of America, more rural areas may not even have permitting.  Farmers or ranchers can throw up a barn or tractor shed without permitting, so putting up a building may not be a problem.  Don't know about Boca Chica.  Brownsville is a few kilometers to the west of Boca Chica launch site.  An offshore platform also if outside US controlled waterways will may not need permitting. 

Online enbandi

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #831 on: 02/20/2019 03:15 pm »
Someone else may chime in, but in some areas of America, more rural areas may not even have permitting.  Farmers or ranchers can throw up a barn or tractor shed without permitting, so putting up a building may not be a problem.  Don't know about Boca Chica.  Brownsville is a few kilometers to the west of Boca Chica launch site.  An offshore platform also if outside US controlled waterways will may not need permitting.

I don't know anything about building permits or something else regarding industrial activity. What I linked previously are environmental permits, somewhat indirect: about wastewater, trash, industrial waste, etc... Both McGregor and the existing BC site has permits like this (and so a lot of other companies with industrial activity) so I suppose that SpaceX will need something similar according to a new location (if there will be one).

Online dnavas

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #832 on: 02/20/2019 03:44 pm »
Another possibility is that they sublease from someone like Keppel
http://www.keppelom.com/en/content.aspx?sid=2808
Their O&M business is in recovery, but nothing is ever fast enough for the Street "...there are different areas that we are targeting, not only in the oil and gas sector..." though the only ones mentioned are renewable (likely offshore wind).

One might expect to see press releases about any SpaceX hookup from them, and we have not seen that.  Nonetheless, something to keep an eye on.  If not for vehicle production, then at least for launch platforms (ed: particularly as vehicles may be problematic given Keppel ownership)....

« Last Edit: 02/20/2019 03:46 pm by dnavas »

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #833 on: 02/20/2019 04:08 pm »
Local news article from a while back:

https://riograndeguardian.com/campirano-elon-musk-may-have-bigger-plans-for-boca-chica/

Quote from: Rio Grande Guardian
Eduardo A. Campirano, port director and CEO of the Port of Brownsville, says he would not be surprised to see Elon Musk announce even bigger plans for SpaceX’s rocket-launching site at Boca Chica.

Campirano was asked to give an update on SpaceX’s plans for Boca Chica when chairing a Rio South Texas Economic Council meeting earlier this week.

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #834 on: 02/20/2019 04:24 pm »
Someone else may chime in, but in some areas of America, more rural areas may not even have permitting...

Permits are generally required in the Brownsville area.  But as I understand it, new permits aren't required if the land has already been developed for a specific purpose.  Also, I'm not sure if structures like a large tent would require a permit.

The Port of Brownsville used to be where all aircraft carriers went to be scrapped, but if I remember correctly, the newer, larger, nuclear aircraft carriers aren't allowed there.

In any case, we have some evidence that Starship and Super Heavy will be built at a new "SpaceX South Texas build site", but we don't have any evidence that this will be located in Boca Chica.  I'm simply pointing out other possibilities.

Offline JoerTex

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #835 on: 02/20/2019 04:26 pm »
Someone else may chime in, but in some areas of America, more rural areas may not even have permitting.  Farmers or ranchers can throw up a barn or tractor shed without permitting, so putting up a building may not be a problem.  Don't know about Boca Chica.  Brownsville is a few kilometers to the west of Boca Chica launch site.  An offshore platform also if outside US controlled waterways will may not need permitting.

In Texas counties do not issue building permits; they do enforce building codes and standards.  Cities have Extra Territorial Jurisdiction, and they can require site plans and other reviews before any building.  As this thread has discussed before, the Environmental Permit now in force for Boca Chica will have public comment if significant deviation and change is planned.

Online Slarty1080

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #836 on: 02/20/2019 05:00 pm »
However, a "SpaceX South Texas build site" could mean many things.  Among them, a facility along the Port of Brownsville channel, allowing BFR to be shipped to any location in the world, including an offshore pad near Boca Chica.

I found this argument about a possible Port of Bronswille facility in multiple threads/posts, but without any facts or evidence. For whom are interested in data digging the Port Comission meeting agendas are public and I haven't found a single clue about a possible lease to any of the known SpaceX subsidiaries. Also who are interested in this is a searchable GIS map of Cameron County, in which you can find all the Boca Chica real estate (to Dogleg Park LLC) but nothing else nearby.

The missing evidence is not a proof against that there will be another facility in Brownswille or nearby, but in this case I think it is a quite strong hypothesis. However, the map and the agendas are quite detailed, so somebody may find something in them. Happy digging.

[Edit: spelling and formatting]

The first orbital launch of BFR may use an off shore launch pad. That came from Elon himself.

And we now have evidence that Starship and Super Heavy will be built at a new "SpaceX South Texas build site". This came from SpaceX job postings.

If the new SpaceX South Texas build site is located in Boca Chica, it would be a lot more difficult to get BFR/BFS to an off shore launch pad.  So one logical possibility is that the "SpaceX South Texas build site" is located along a shipping lane.

Snip...

Unless they can fly them there? I assume a Starship or Superheavy could be built at some sort of facility near Boca Chica given a small amount of propellant, launched on just three engines, flown out to sea and then landed on the platform.

Seems like an odd way of doing it, but after recent events nothing would suprise me. Obviously this is just speculation but are there any obvious show stoppers to doing this?
The first words spoken on Mars: "Humans have been wondering if there was any life on the planet Mars for many decades … well ... there is now!"

Online rsdavis9


Unless they can fly them there? I assume a Starship or Superheavy could be built at some sort of facility near Boca Chica given a small amount of propellant, launched on just three engines, flown out to sea and then landed on the platform.

Seems like an odd way of doing it, but after recent events nothing would suprise me. Obviously this is just speculation but are there any obvious show stoppers to doing this?

It seems perfectly normal to me.
You build a car. Drive it out of the factory.
You build an airplane. They don't truck it to an airfield?

Build a spaceship fly it with reduced engines and thrust to where the massive propellant and thrust will be used.
I think we may see the full SS/SH built right here with just a tent.
I think they may build the tent closer to the current launch site.
Right now if they light up 3 raptors on the BFH doesn't nommads house go kabloomy?

Why move a 100 ton rocket with trucks if it can transport itself.

With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
Same engines. Design once. Same vehicle. Design once. Reusable. Build once.

Online Slarty1080

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #838 on: 02/20/2019 05:38 pm »

Unless they can fly them there? I assume a Starship or Superheavy could be built at some sort of facility near Boca Chica given a small amount of propellant, launched on just three engines, flown out to sea and then landed on the platform.

Seems like an odd way of doing it, but after recent events nothing would suprise me. Obviously this is just speculation but are there any obvious show stoppers to doing this?

It seems perfectly normal to me.
You build a car. Drive it out of the factory.
You build an airplane. They don't truck it to an airfield?

Build a spaceship fly it with reduced engines and thrust to where the massive propellant and thrust will be used.
I think we may see the full SS/SH built right here with just a tent.
I think they may build the tent closer to the current launch site.
Right now if they light up 3 raptors on the BFH doesn't nommads house go kabloomy?

Why move a 100 ton rocket with trucks if it can transport itself.

Perhaps your right. But whatever they are going to do, be it build a building, tent or sea platform they need to get on with it soon!
The first words spoken on Mars: "Humans have been wondering if there was any life on the planet Mars for many decades … well ... there is now!"

Online rsdavis9


Unless they can fly them there? I assume a Starship or Superheavy could be built at some sort of facility near Boca Chica given a small amount of propellant, launched on just three engines, flown out to sea and then landed on the platform.

Seems like an odd way of doing it, but after recent events nothing would suprise me. Obviously this is just speculation but are there any obvious show stoppers to doing this?


It seems perfectly normal to me.
You build a car. Drive it out of the factory.
You build an airplane. They don't truck it to an airfield?

Build a spaceship fly it with reduced engines and thrust to where the massive propellant and thrust will be used.
I think we may see the full SS/SH built right here with just a tent.
I think they may build the tent closer to the current launch site.
Right now if they light up 3 raptors on the BFH doesn't nommads house go kabloomy?

Why move a 100 ton rocket with trucks if it can transport itself.

Perhaps your right. But whatever they are going to do, be it build a building, tent or sea platform they need to get on with it soon!

And they already have a tent!
How long did it take them to put up the tent? 1 or 2 weeks?
Kinda torn between build and then take down the tent?
Or move it far enough away from the tent to do the self-ferry launch.

With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
Same engines. Design once. Same vehicle. Design once. Reusable. Build once.

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