Author Topic: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9  (Read 316891 times)


Offline MikeAtkinson

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #801 on: 02/17/2019 12:35 pm »
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-job-openings-starship-super-heavy-booster-texas-production/

From the supervisor opening:

Quote
Familiarity and/or experience with flux-cored arc welding (FCAW), submerged arc welding (SAW), gas metal arc welding (GMAW) processes

I don't know much about welding, but these are all pretty standard aren't they.

Quote
Basic knowledge of inherent non-destructive evaluation (NDE) inspection methods and criteria including penetrant, visual, and x-ray testing

Again pretty standard QA procedures for welding.
Quote
Typically exposed to work in extreme outdoor environments heat, cold, rain

So not in a building / tent at least initially.

Quote
Experience in machining and fabrication proficiencies:
Vertical mill, holding tight tolerances and correct material setups
Lathe, holding tight tolerances and correct material setups
Various power tools such as drills, saws, and pneumatic die grinders, etc.
Utilize proper tools for precision measuring




« Last Edit: 02/17/2019 12:36 pm by MikeAtkinson »

Offline JohnLloydJones

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #802 on: 02/17/2019 01:14 pm »
If SpaceX are going to fabricate SH/SS in situ, doesn't this pose interesting challenges for cryo hardening? Or am I missing something?

Offline testguy

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #803 on: 02/17/2019 02:08 pm »
I guess few of us are surprised that the Starship will fly from South Texas it makes perfect sense.  Also, many of us have, for a long time suspected that it fly from an offshore platform or ship yet to be confirmed.  Both had me wondering even before the announcement about a few things:

1.  It seams that what we are calling the Hopper launch complex might have a future life.  SpaceX is investing a lot of capital in a facility that is limited to just Hopper tests.  When you looked at the Grasshopper launch site you knew it was minimalistic and temporary.  That is not the case here.  I know SpaceX has said that the Starship, at least we believe, will be used for all future launches but I just can't believe that it will overkill for many applications.  I'm still of the camp that SpaceX will want a smaller raptor powered launcher when the cost of propellent and ground handling exceed the amortized launch cost of the Starship.  This launch site would be perfect for those times.  Thoughts?

2.  How will SpaceX safe the SH & S in the event of a hurricane?  Won't they have to go horizontal?  Any ideas?




Offline Jcc

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #804 on: 02/17/2019 02:44 pm »
I guess few of us are surprised that the Starship will fly from South Texas it makes perfect sense.  Also, many of us have, for a long time suspected that it fly from an offshore platform or ship yet to be confirmed.  Both had me wondering even before the announcement about a few things:

1.  It seams that what we are calling the Hopper launch complex might have a future life.  SpaceX is investing a lot of capital in a facility that is limited to just Hopper tests.  When you looked at the Grasshopper launch site you knew it was minimalistic and temporary.  That is not the case here.  I know SpaceX has said that the Starship, at least we believe, will be used for all future launches but I just can't believe that it will overkill for many applications.  I'm still of the camp that SpaceX will want a smaller raptor powered launcher when the cost of propellent and ground handling exceed the amortized launch cost of the Starship.  This launch site would be perfect for those times.  Thoughts?

2.  How will SpaceX safe the SH & S in the event of a hurricane?  Won't they have to go horizontal?  Any ideas?

Consider the timeline as we now know it: 1. Hopper is being fabricated and built  in place now, in the open. 2. Components of the first orbital Starship prototype are being made in Hawthorne, and we can only assume it will be assembled in Boca Chica. Lacking any other facilities there, they could make use of the tent for components that need to be sheltered from the weather, and for the heat of summer, which may be when they start assembly. But, the hull would still need to assembled in the open (like ships are). 3. They will need to make Starship resistant to high aerodynamic loads so in the long term, it should be relatively "hurricane proof", but in the short term they are running the risk of high wind causing damage. Sometimes you just have to take risks.

Further out, I expect they will want a huge building to build Starship and Super heavy. Maybe Michaud will become available?

Offline su27k

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #805 on: 02/17/2019 03:30 pm »
1.  It seams that what we are calling the Hopper launch complex might have a future life.  SpaceX is investing a lot of capital in a facility that is limited to just Hopper tests.  When you looked at the Grasshopper launch site you knew it was minimalistic and temporary.  That is not the case here.  I know SpaceX has said that the Starship, at least we believe, will be used for all future launches but I just can't believe that it will overkill for many applications.  I'm still of the camp that SpaceX will want a smaller raptor powered launcher when the cost of propellent and ground handling exceed the amortized launch cost of the Starship.  This launch site would be perfect for those times.  Thoughts?

They may build shortened SuperHeavy (for example a 19 Raptor SH), but I don't think they'll deviate from the Starship/SuperHeavy architecture, this is it.

As for the facility, I think it will be their future test flight facility. They'll be iterating Starship/SuperHeavy for years to come, and they need a place to test flight them, that'll be Boca Chica's launch site's role. They can probably test flight SuperHeavy there too by just using the center 7 engines to take off. But I don't think they'll build a full orbital launch site here.
« Last Edit: 02/17/2019 03:31 pm by su27k »

Online meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #806 on: 02/17/2019 03:35 pm »
I guess few of us are surprised that the Starship will fly from South Texas it makes perfect sense.  Also, many of us have, for a long time suspected that it fly from an offshore platform or ship yet to be confirmed.  Both had me wondering even before the announcement about a few things:

1.  It seams that what we are calling the Hopper launch complex might have a future life.  SpaceX is investing a lot of capital in a facility that is limited to just Hopper tests.  When you looked at the Grasshopper launch site you knew it was minimalistic and temporary.  That is not the case here.  I know SpaceX has said that the Starship, at least we believe, will be used for all future launches but I just can't believe that it will overkill for many applications.  I'm still of the camp that SpaceX will want a smaller raptor powered launcher when the cost of propellent and ground handling exceed the amortized launch cost of the Starship.  This launch site would be perfect for those times.  Thoughts?

2.  How will SpaceX safe the SH & S in the event of a hurricane?  Won't they have to go horizontal?  Any ideas?

Consider the timeline as we now know it: 1. Hopper is being fabricated and built  in place now, in the open. 2. Components of the first orbital Starship prototype are being made in Hawthorne, and we can only assume it will be assembled in Boca Chica. Lacking any other facilities there, they could make use of the tent for components that need to be sheltered from the weather, and for the heat of summer, which may be when they start assembly. But, the hull would still need to assembled in the open (like ships are). 3. They will need to make Starship resistant to high aerodynamic loads so in the long term, it should be relatively "hurricane proof", but in the short term they are running the risk of high wind causing damage. Sometimes you just have to take risks.

Further out, I expect they will want a huge building to build Starship and Super heavy. Maybe Michaud will become available?
To my eye, the BC site is extremely minimal.

For example - small storage tanks located within a hair of the test pad.

The Grasshopper pad was similar in concept (except of course they fueled from trucks, which is not practical here.)

IMO they'll always assemble the ship vertically - SS will never go horizontal throughout its planned life.

The tall hangar to do this in is not that giant...  I mean if you can build a flying building, how hard van it be to build a stationary one that's 20% larger?

Large sub-components, up to 9 m slices, can be manufactured anywhere... That's why the port is nearby.



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Offline philw1776

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #807 on: 02/17/2019 03:49 pm »
I guess few of us are surprised that the Starship will fly from South Texas it makes perfect sense.  Also, many of us have, for a long time suspected that it fly from an offshore platform or ship yet to be confirmed.  Both had me wondering even before the announcement about a few things:

1.  It seams that what we are calling the Hopper launch complex might have a future life.  SpaceX is investing a lot of capital in a facility that is limited to just Hopper tests.  When you looked at the Grasshopper launch site you knew it was minimalistic and temporary.  That is not the case here.  I know SpaceX has said that the Starship, at least we believe, will be used for all future launches but I just can't believe that it will overkill for many applications.  I'm still of the camp that SpaceX will want a smaller raptor powered launcher when the cost of propellent and ground handling exceed the amortized launch cost of the Starship.  This launch site would be perfect for those times.  Thoughts?

2.  How will SpaceX safe the SH & S in the event of a hurricane?  Won't they have to go horizontal?  Any ideas?

Long agreed that the biggies need an offshore launch platform.  Good thing Gulf is shallow many miles offshore.

Regarding overkill, you want to fly a re-useable vehicle as many times as possible.  I say early tests of the SuperHeavy will start with much less than 31 engines.  I see a ~19 engine depopulated 1st stage Heavy launching Starships with less payload to LEO.
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Offline spacenut

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #808 on: 02/17/2019 04:04 pm »
I inspected welding as an engineer working for a natural gas company.  Out in the open is kind of weird.  Too much moisture in the welding rods can cause cracks.  Has to be done in good weather and seams must be dry.  In emergencies our welder crews used popup tents to cover the welds.  They pipe was heated slightly with torches to dry them before welding.  Starships are huge in comparison.  The will eventually have to build a facility.  Maybe they can get Brownsville to have a building built for inside controlled fabrication. 

Offline Slarty1080

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #809 on: 02/17/2019 06:51 pm »
What is going to happen to Boca Chica "village"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boca_Chica_Village,_Texas

https://web.archive.org/web/20180624175639/http://www.thv11.com/article/news/local/texas/spacex-ceos-comments-about-a-texas-launch-site-has-upset-a-border-community/273-519435139

If the residents don't want to move? It's only 1.5 miles from the launch site so they may object to having their windows blown in every time there is a Superheavy launch.

What's most likely:

a) Elon will buy them out with sufficient $$$
b) They will decide to move after their windows have been blown out a few times
c) SpaceX will demolish their houses by mistake when they go shopping...
d) Superheavy launches will be prohibited by court order

The first words spoken on Mars: "Humans have been wondering if there was any life on the planet Mars for many decades well ... there is now!"

Offline DanielW

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #810 on: 02/17/2019 07:28 pm »
Plainly this will shortly be a heartwarming movie about salt of the earth retirees finding a way to keep their homes in the face of extreme hostility from the evil industrialist hell-bent on turning their corner of paradise into a launch pad. Maybe hallmark could pick it up and add a bit at the end where Elon learns the true meaning of Christmas.

Offline Slarty1080

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #811 on: 02/17/2019 08:19 pm »
Plainly this will shortly be a heartwarming movie about salt of the earth retirees finding a way to keep their homes in the face of extreme hostility from the evil industrialist hell-bent on turning their corner of paradise into a launch pad. Maybe hallmark could pick it up and add a bit at the end where Elon learns the true meaning of Christmas.

Happy ending - their houses are converted to withstand the launches and they take in tourists (for a fee) to watch at point blank range with crash helmets from their own private bunkers at the bottom of their gardens - all paid for by SpaceX.

On a more serious note it would seem that SpaceX are spending a lot of money on Boca Chica if it is just a test site ($100,000,000). I am beginning to think that they might actually use it for full scale Starship launches.

For those who have not read it, the wikipedia article has a lot of information:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_South_Texas_Launch_Site

I thought the following extracts were of particular interest:
"SpaceX is also modifying several residential properties in Boca Chica Village, but apparently planning to leave them in residential use, about 2 miles (3.2 km) west of the launch site."


"In order to stabilize the waterlogged ground at the site, SpaceX engineers determined that a process known as soil surcharging would be required. For this to happen, some 310,000 cubic yards (240,000 m3) of new soil was trucked to the facility between October 2015 and January 2016. In January 2016, following additional soil testing that revealed foundation problems, SpaceX was not planning to complete construction until 2017, and the first launch from Boca Chica was not expected until late 2018. In February 2016, SpaceX President and COO Gwynne Shotwell stated that construction had been delayed by poor soil stability at the site, and that "two years of dirt work" would be required before it can build the launch facility. Construction costs should, as a result, be higher the previously stated. The first phase of the soil stabilization process was completed by May 2016."



The first words spoken on Mars: "Humans have been wondering if there was any life on the planet Mars for many decades well ... there is now!"

Offline ChrisC

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #812 on: 02/17/2019 08:53 pm »
All of which was well documented at the time in this thread (and its precursors).  It's worth going back and reading, if you're relatively new.  There's a lot in 2016 in particular, back when they starting the soil surcharging, or further back when the EIS was filed and we analyzed it here.

NSF's own search doesn't work so well, but you can use google to find things quickly within NSF.  For example, to find loooots of earlier discussion about the impact of launches on Boca Chica residents, try this:

https://www.google.com/search?&q=site%3Aforum.nasaspaceflight.com+spacex+texas+sound+level+db

Other terms worth hunting for are "sound pressure" and "Distant Focusing Overpressure" (DFO).

The very first result in these searches is often the EIS itself.  Read that.

Offline clongton

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #813 on: 02/18/2019 01:23 am »
What is going to happen to Boca Chica "village"

Nothing
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Online docmordrid

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #814 on: 02/18/2019 02:20 am »
Wonder if they'll build an assembly building at Hwy 4 and Eichorn? Seems a straighter shot to the pad.
DM

Offline Slarty1080

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #815 on: 02/18/2019 11:11 am »
What is going to happen to Boca Chica "village"

Nothing

So no problem with people living 2 miles or less from a Superheavy launch?
The first words spoken on Mars: "Humans have been wondering if there was any life on the planet Mars for many decades well ... there is now!"

Offline testguy

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #816 on: 02/18/2019 03:24 pm »
It appears the first flight of the Hopper will be paced by Raptor availability or completion of the launch complex. It has been a few days since we have seen good arial photos of the launch complex. Those videos and photos are always greatly appreciated by us nerds who look for progress day to day.   This is a request to keep them coming. I believe the last good view showed preparation for concrete pouring on the pad.   Thanks!


Offline SPITexas

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #817 on: 02/19/2019 12:10 am »
I know this has been asked before. But just for thoughts now that the starship and booster will be built here, if they plan to do orbital test launch in 2020 which is a possiblilty in the air.  They would need permission by the FAA and a new EIS right?

Offline marsbase

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #818 on: 02/19/2019 12:50 am »
What is going to happen to Boca Chica "village"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boca_Chica_Village,_Texas

https://web.archive.org/web/20180624175639/http://www.thv11.com/article/news/local/texas/spacex-ceos-comments-about-a-texas-launch-site-has-upset-a-border-community/273-519435139

If the residents don't want to move? It's only 1.5 miles from the launch site so they may object to having their windows blown in every time there is a Superheavy launch.

What's most likely:

a) Elon will buy them out with sufficient $$$
b) They will decide to move after their windows have been blown out a few times
c) SpaceX will demolish their houses by mistake when they go shopping...
d) Superheavy launches will be prohibited by court order
e. The State of Texas discovers a need to expand Boca Chica State Park.  Houses are added to the Park for that very public purpose, thus solving the problem SpaceX was having with vaporizing civilians.

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #819 on: 02/19/2019 09:27 pm »
What is going to happen to Boca Chica "village"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boca_Chica_Village,_Texas

https://web.archive.org/web/20180624175639/http://www.thv11.com/article/news/local/texas/spacex-ceos-comments-about-a-texas-launch-site-has-upset-a-border-community/273-519435139

If the residents don't want to move? It's only 1.5 miles from the launch site so they may object to having their windows blown in every time there is a Superheavy launch.

What's most likely:

a) Elon will buy them out with sufficient $$$
b) They will decide to move after their windows have been blown out a few times
c) SpaceX will demolish their houses by mistake when they go shopping...
d) Superheavy launches will be prohibited by court order

My guess: The orbital Star Ship and Super Heavy will launch from a few miles off shore. The control center, tracking station, and propellant storage will be in Boca Chica (on shore).

By the way, Elon specifically mentioned the possibility of an off shore launch pad:

Quote from: Question from Steven Clark (SpaceFlightNow)
Have you selected a launch and landing site for BFR for the initial flights and the first orbital flights?

Quote from: Elon Musk
...For the short hops, we'll be doing it out of our Texas site.  So we have a site that's on the South coast of Texas near Brownsville, and that's where we'll be doing the initial hops of BFS...

As for the first orbital flights, we have not made a firm decision on that, and it may actually be that we launch from a floating platform. That's possible.

(starting at 53 minutes and 46 seconds into the attached video)




« Last Edit: 02/19/2019 09:28 pm by Dave G »

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