Author Topic: Early 1960's Convair concept for a Saturn-like rocket?  (Read 831 times)

Offline Proponent

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The attached image comes from Erik Bergaust's 1962 children's book Rocket Power.  At first glance, I thought it was some sort of early advanced Saturn concept, the two 400,000-lb thrust "outboard" engines possibly being of the E-1 type that von Braun originally intended to use on what became the Saturn I.  But then I noticed the credit to Convair, manufacturer of the original Atlas.  And, come to think of it, it does look like an Atlas.  On the other hand, the nozzle-exit diameter of the F-1 being about 12 feet, the diameter of the rocket is more like that of the Saturn I than the Atlas.

Does anyone have any more information about this concept?

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Early 1960's Convair concept for a Saturn-like rocket?
« Reply #1 on: 12/17/2018 11:21 pm »
I vaguely remember seeing something similar in the Atlas book, or the Centaur book. Had a quick look, but couldn't find it.
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Offline Generic Username

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Re: Early 1960's Convair concept for a Saturn-like rocket?
« Reply #2 on: 12/18/2018 09:31 am »
  And, come to think of it, it does look like an Atlas.  On the other hand, the nozzle-exit diameter of the F-1 being about 12 feet, the diameter of the rocket is more like that of the Saturn I than the Atlas.


Difficulty: the little spaceplane/landing boat at the top was originally designed specifically to fit on the Atlas, so it is presumably the same size, with the proto-Centaur upper stage being ten feet in diameter.
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Offline Proponent

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Re: Early 1960's Convair concept for a Saturn-like rocket?
« Reply #3 on: 12/18/2018 10:44 am »
Difficulty: the little spaceplane/landing boat at the top was originally designed specifically to fit on the Atlas, so it is presumably the same size, with the proto-Centaur upper stage being ten feet in diameter.

That's a good argument in favor of this being a re-engined Atlas.  But wouldn't it be drastically over-powered?  Take-off thrust would have been a multiple of the Atlas D's.

I now suspect that the figure caption is wrong in describing the main engine as an F-1.  Perhaps the first stage is an Atlas with upgraded engines and likely without the dropable booster section.
« Last Edit: 12/18/2018 11:33 am by Proponent »

Offline Generic Username

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Re: Early 1960's Convair concept for a Saturn-like rocket?
« Reply #4 on: 12/18/2018 05:07 pm »

I now suspect that the figure caption is wrong in describing the main engine as an F-1. 

It is wrong. The center engine is, seemingly, an S-3D, the engine used on the Thor & Jupiter and sort of the early, overly complex version of the H-1. You can tell because of the turbine exhaust tube running alongside the bell, something the F-1 didn't have.

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Offline Michel Van

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Re: Early 1960's Convair concept for a Saturn-like rocket?
« Reply #5 on: 12/18/2018 07:12 pm »
The Payload are two Lifting bodies by Dr. Krafft A. Ehricke
had to be launch by Atlas into orbit   
That means this Launch rocket has diameter of 3 meter or 10 ft.
This would match with S-3D engine in first stage


Offline Generic Username

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Re: Early 1960's Convair concept for a Saturn-like rocket?
« Reply #6 on: 12/18/2018 07:28 pm »
 
That means this Launch rocket has diameter of 3 meter or 10 ft.

Maybe 12 feet. Notice that there is a *slight* increase in diameter from the third stage to the booster. The two-stage booster rocket is pretty much entirely different from the Atlas... new engines, new shorter tanks, different innards. So they might as well increase diameter a little.
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Tags: Atlas