Author Topic: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)  (Read 4170 times)

Online Chris Bergin

InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« on: 11/29/2018 07:13 PM »
ONLY updates in this thread please.

Master thread for coverage through dev and landing:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=27717.0

ARTICLES:
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/?s=insight

Online Chris Bergin

Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #1 on: 11/29/2018 07:14 PM »
FEATURE ARTICLE: InSight healthy, prepares for a two Earth year primary science mission -

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/11/insight-healthy-two-earth-year-primary-science-mission/

- By Chris Gebhardt

(Awesome InSight EDL render by Nathan Koga for NSF/L2)

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1068235962994573313

Offline mcgyver

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 471
  • milan, rome
  • Liked: 128
  • Likes Given: 91

Offline mcgyver

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 471
  • milan, rome
  • Liked: 128
  • Likes Given: 91
Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #3 on: 12/01/2018 10:15 AM »
Suggestion for slider values suitable for Insight pictures?


Online defisheye tool

Offline mlindner

  • Software Engineer
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2090
  • Space Capitalist
  • Silicon Valley, CA -- previously in Ann Arbor, MI
  • Liked: 748
  • Likes Given: 289
Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #4 on: 12/02/2018 05:02 PM »
Dust appears to be blowing off the camera lens over time.
« Last Edit: 12/02/2018 05:04 PM by mlindner »
Internal combustion engine in space. It's just a Bad Idea.TM - Robotbeat

Offline mlindner

  • Software Engineer
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2090
  • Space Capitalist
  • Silicon Valley, CA -- previously in Ann Arbor, MI
  • Liked: 748
  • Likes Given: 289
Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #5 on: 12/02/2018 05:06 PM »
10 new images releases, arm moved:
https://mars.nasa.gov/insight/multimedia/raw-images/?order=sol+desc%2Cdate_taken+desc&per_page=50&page=0&mission=insight

The images are downloaded as PNG files but they have jpg compression in them. Do you know where the actual raw images are available? NASA seems to be at some point saving them as jpg before converting them to png.
Internal combustion engine in space. It's just a Bad Idea.TM - Robotbeat

Offline ugordan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
    • My mainly Cassini image gallery
  • Liked: 1840
  • Likes Given: 405
Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #6 on: 12/02/2018 06:16 PM »
It is quite possible they're actually being downloaded from the spacecraft in jpg form, for bandwidth reasons. If it's anything like MSL, they have the option of returning on-board-debayered color images in such a compressed form or raw, uncompressed bayered CCD readouts.

Offline theinternetftw

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 241
    • www.theinternetftw.com
  • Liked: 539
  • Likes Given: 284
Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #7 on: 12/02/2018 06:49 PM »
NASA seems to be at some point saving them as jpg before converting them to png.

That point is on Mars. :)  From this PDF:

Quote
All onboard IDC/ICC image processing is done by the lander flight software running on the lander computer. After an image is read out from the camera, a shutter image is also acquired and subtracted from the image of interest; this removes frame transfer readout smear and dark current. The raw Bayer image is then demosaicked into RGB triplets, color balanced onboard using preloaded color correction coefficients, and companded to 8 bits using a 12- to-8 bit square root lookup table (LUT). The resultant images are JPEG-compressed by the lander computer and packetized for downlink. Typical JPEG quality values used for deployment activites are 85, 90, and 95, which correspond approximately to compressed bit rates of 1, 2, and 3 bits/pixel, respectively (the exact relationship between compression quality and bit rate is scene-dependent).

This seems to suggest jpeg is all we'll get.  I mean, it's software, if they want the raw data or any of the above interim products, they can get it, but the PDF doesn't suggest that as an option.

Edit: Fixed a case of mistaken identity.
« Last Edit: 12/02/2018 11:16 PM by theinternetftw »

Offline ugordan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
    • My mainly Cassini image gallery
  • Liked: 1840
  • Likes Given: 405
Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #8 on: 12/02/2018 08:22 PM »
NASA seems to be at some point saving them as jpg before converting them to png.

That point is on Mars. :)  From this PDF:

Please check your quoting, that's not my quote. What I said is basically what your pdf says. This approach with images downlinked already jpegged started with MSL. They did occasionally send lossless raw CCD data down, but because of how the ground raw image pipeline worked, it converted those to "greyscale" jpegs as well which made them useless for manual debayering because all the high spatial frequency bayer filter data was clobbered at that point. It turned out that the public raw pipeline re-encoded the already jpegged images into jpeg again, for the sake of simplicity in the pipeline.

At least with InSight we skip one extra lossy compression step with the public raw images.
« Last Edit: 12/02/2018 08:29 PM by ugordan »

Offline theinternetftw

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 241
    • www.theinternetftw.com
  • Liked: 539
  • Likes Given: 284
Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #9 on: 12/02/2018 11:10 PM »
Please check your quoting, that's not my quote.

That's weird, you didn't even quote them yourself.  No idea how that happened.

Edit: Fixed the original post.

By the way, it looks like lossy compression (though not jpeg) was used on the MER rovers as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICER
« Last Edit: 12/02/2018 11:34 PM by theinternetftw »

Offline ugordan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
    • My mainly Cassini image gallery
  • Liked: 1840
  • Likes Given: 405
Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #10 on: 12/03/2018 06:48 AM »
By the way, it looks like lossy compression (though not jpeg) was used on the MER rovers as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICER

Yes, MER used quite an interesting wavelet-based compression. The difference is that those images were by definition monochromatic as the cameras used either rotating filter wheels or a fixed one. MSL was the first such landed mission that used bayer color filters on the chip itself and the high frequency bayer mosaic "noise" made such lossy compression schemes really bad unless you did a debayer already on the spacecraft. Once you did that, might as well use good ole jpeg for the resulting color product. Seems like a bit of a shame they didn't adapt ICER for color and it's as if we regressed back to a less sophisticated jpeg algorithm, but hey - it works.

Online niwax

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 239
  • Germany
    • SpaceX Booster List
  • Liked: 128
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #11 on: 12/03/2018 07:56 AM »
By the way, it looks like lossy compression (though not jpeg) was used on the MER rovers as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICER

Yes, MER used quite an interesting wavelet-based compression. The difference is that those images were by definition monochromatic as the cameras used either rotating filter wheels or a fixed one. MSL was the first such landed mission that used bayer color filters on the chip itself and the high frequency bayer mosaic "noise" made such lossy compression schemes really bad unless you did a debayer already on the spacecraft. Once you did that, might as well use good ole jpeg for the resulting color product. Seems like a bit of a shame they didn't adapt ICER for color and it's as if we regressed back to a less sophisticated jpeg algorithm, but hey - it works.

Since this isn't an imaging mission and the cameras are pretty much just there so we puny humans can judge what the robot is doing they likely went for the simplest solution. No reason to spend time adapting algorithms when basic JPEG is dead simple to implement.
Which booster has the most soot? SpaceX booster launch history!

Offline ugordan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
    • My mainly Cassini image gallery
  • Liked: 1840
  • Likes Given: 405
Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #12 on: 12/03/2018 08:04 AM »
No reason to spend time adapting algorithms when basic JPEG is dead simple to implement.

Perfectly fine for InSight, I was really commenting about MER->MSL transition. Wavelet should theoretically give slightly better image quality than DCT, but it's perhaps less resilient to data dropouts.

Offline falcon19

  • Member
  • Posts: 2
  • United States
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #13 on: 12/03/2018 02:19 PM »
Looking at the latest pictures from InSight, it looks like the Context Camera has dropped the lens cover, but there is still dust on the lens, is that correct?

Offline redliox

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1963
  • Arizona USA
  • Liked: 397
  • Likes Given: 66
Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #14 on: 12/03/2018 06:23 PM »
Looking at the latest pictures from InSight, it looks like the Context Camera has dropped the lens cover, but there is still dust on the lens, is that correct?

Indeed.  Some of the dust seems to be falling off.  Far from a perfect image, but I will say it is clear enough for the engineers to recreate the workspace ground.

The area either to the left or directly past the one rock in front of InSight looks perfect for the instruments.  The area around the footpad toward the far right looks like the only troublesome spot, assuming the gravel-esque rocks are any trouble at all.
"Let the trails lead where they may, I will follow."
-Tigatron

Offline theinternetftw

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 241
    • www.theinternetftw.com
  • Liked: 539
  • Likes Given: 284
Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #15 on: 12/03/2018 06:37 PM »
A bit of metadata about the above image: It's from Sol 5 (December 1st) and was taken at a mean solar time of 13:04:20.

And to show dust change in a bit of a different way, here's an image highlighting the dust particles that are no longer on the lens, compared to Sol 4.  So the quality of image is steadily getting better.
« Last Edit: 12/03/2018 06:42 PM by theinternetftw »

Offline deruch

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2355
  • California
  • Liked: 1896
  • Likes Given: 4437
Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #16 on: 12/04/2018 01:01 PM »
No reason to spend time adapting algorithms when basic JPEG is dead simple to implement.

Perfectly fine for InSight, I was really commenting about MER->MSL transition. Wavelet should theoretically give slightly better image quality than DCT, but it's perhaps less resilient to data dropouts.

No reason for NASA to fret about images being mangled due to dropped or corrupted data.  They could just turn to the experts in the field of spaceflight-related image recovery: NASASpaceflight

:D
« Last Edit: 12/04/2018 01:02 PM by deruch »
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline ChrisC

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1536
  • Liked: 400
  • Likes Given: 515
Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #17 on: 12/06/2018 02:14 PM »
Jean-Yves Le Gall has tweeted two images of the SEIS instrument on the deck.

Disappointed that these didn't show up in the raw images website first, but I can understand the argument that they get first dibs.  Hopefully it's actually just a pipeline or website glitch.

(and sorry that I'm apparently not capable of following my own embed instructions right now )

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="fr" dir="ltr">Mars. Elysium Planitia. Deux nouvelles photos d’InSight. SEIS en gros plan sur la première et le logo du CNES en bas à gauche sur la deuxième. Le CNES est sur Mars! @CNES @CNRS @InSight_IPGP @NASA @NASAInSight @NASAJPL pic.twitter.com/DSGpTyKZBa</p>&mdash; Jean-Yves Le Gall (@JY_LeGall) December 6, 2018
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
« Last Edit: 12/06/2018 02:19 PM by ChrisC »
How to embed photos from outside sources (e.g. Twitter)
NASA TV in HD:  history and FAQ (from 2007-2010 startup period)

Offline ugordan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
    • My mainly Cassini image gallery
  • Liked: 1840
  • Likes Given: 405
Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #18 on: 12/06/2018 02:16 PM »
The image on the right nicely shows engine exhaust marks on the ground.

Online catdlr

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5631
  • Viewed launches since the Redstones
  • Marina del Rey, California, USA
  • Liked: 2196
  • Likes Given: 1546
Re: InSight Mission Updates (Post Landing)
« Reply #19 on: 12/06/2018 05:47 PM »
NASA's Mars InSight Flexes Its Arm

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=7298

Tony De La Rosa

Tags: