NASA to launch safety review of SpaceX and Boeing after video of Elon Musk...

[kevinof]

It's a real shame SpaceX don't have enough cash to take out their right hand and display , with a nice underarm motion, a fully extended index finger to Nasa and it's political hacks. Then go off and focus on commercial launches and BFR and leave everyone in their dust.

[jpo234]

This whole thing makes me still angry at Elon. He is smart and he is long enough in the business to know that you don't provide ammo to your detractors. Taking this hit was both stupid and completely superfluous.

You are mistaken IMO. This should be blamed on certain political critters for abusing their people-given political powers to further their own agendas.

The only reason why this review applies to both CCP providers is to cover NASA's ass. Had this review been ordered to apply to SpaceX alone than NASA would be facing a lawsuit faster than Jim Bridenstine can say Quidditch.

We know that. But by being needlessly stupid, Elon opened this particular flank to an attack. He knew or should have known that he openly flaunts federal law and the terms of SpaceX's contract.

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.

[woods170]

It's a real shame SpaceX don't have enough cash to take out their right hand and display , with a nice underarm motion, a fully extended index finger to Nasa and it's political hacks. Then go off and focus on commercial launches and BFR and leave everyone in their dust.

From what Chris told us in this post there is as much incomprehension, about why this review is being held, within NASA as outside NASA.

So it is not so much giving NASA "the finger" but their political bosses on Capitol Hill.

[woods170]

This whole thing makes me still angry at Elon. He is smart and he is long enough in the business to know that you don't provide ammo to your detractors. Taking this hit was both stupid and completely superfluous.

You are mistaken IMO. This should be blamed on certain political critters for abusing their people-given political powers to further their own agendas.

The only reason why this review applies to both CCP providers is to cover NASA's ass. Had this review been ordered to apply to SpaceX alone than NASA would be facing a lawsuit faster than Jim Bridenstine can say Quidditch.

We know that. But by being needlessly stupid, Elon opened this particular flank to an attack. He knew or should have known that he openly flaunts federal law and the terms of SpaceX's contract.

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.

Wrong. Elon has not violated federal law until a court of law determines that he in fact did.
Innocent until proven guilty, remember?
That applies even in the USA.

[Poole Amateur]

If this review is going to cover" everything and anything with regards to safety" I guess they will have to compare apples with apples and look into the suppliers of the launch systems as well? Will there be a trip to Russia to see if the Atlas engines are built in a safe manner? Even with my limited engineering knowledge I suppose rocket engines play some part in the safety of a launch system.

God forbid another Soyuz incident occurs with less positive results than the last and it comes out that the US providers were ready to go, bar a needless politically motivated "review".

It seems so counter productive to me, I wish I were intelligent enough to understand it all.

[kevinof]

Ok but that then shows a distinct lack of balls on behalf of the Nasa Administrator,  who appears to have let this go through. If Nasa really believe this is not necessary then stand up and say so, no matter the consequences.

It's a real shame SpaceX don't have enough cash to take out their right hand and display , with a nice underarm motion, a fully extended index finger to Nasa and it's political hacks. Then go off and focus on commercial launches and BFR and leave everyone in their dust.

From what Chris told us in this post there is as much incomprehension, about why this review is being held, within NASA as outside NASA.

So it is not so much giving NASA "the finger" but their political bosses on Capitol Hill.

[jpo234]

This whole thing makes me still angry at Elon. He is smart and he is long enough in the business to know that you don't provide ammo to your detractors. Taking this hit was both stupid and completely superfluous.

You are mistaken IMO. This should be blamed on certain political critters for abusing their people-given political powers to further their own agendas.

The only reason why this review applies to both CCP providers is to cover NASA's ass. Had this review been ordered to apply to SpaceX alone than NASA would be facing a lawsuit faster than Jim Bridenstine can say Quidditch.

We know that. But by being needlessly stupid, Elon opened this particular flank to an attack. He knew or should have known that he openly flaunts federal law and the terms of SpaceX's contract.

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.

Wrong. Elon has not violated federal law until a court of law determines that he in fact did.
Innocent until proven guilty, remember?
That applies even in the USA.

Now you are splitting hairs. Be glad that there is no court case, otherwise the trouble could be much, much worse.
If he was found guilty, he would lose his security clearances, wouldn't he?

[woods170]

It's a real shame SpaceX don't have enough cash to take out their right hand and display , with a nice underarm motion, a fully extended index finger to Nasa and it's political hacks. Then go off and focus on commercial launches and BFR and leave everyone in their dust.

From what Chris told us in this post there is as much incomprehension, about why this review is being held, within NASA as outside NASA.

So it is not so much giving NASA "the finger" but their political bosses on Capitol Hill.

Ok but that then shows a distinct lack of balls on behalf of the Nasa Administrator,  who appears to have let this go through. If Nasa really believe this is not necessary then stand up and say so, no matter the consequences.

The NASA administrator is a political appointee, remember? Being the NASA administrator is all about politics and bowing to his/hers political masters.

Why the h*ll do you think there was so much uproar about Jim Bridenstine's nomination? Because he is a pure politician, not somebody with a background in either the spaceflight industry or NASA itself.
He does what his political masters want him to do. He does not do what is best for NASA.

[robert_d]

... DOZENS of NASA employees have been working with SpaceX side by side since the beginning on the program and their processes have gone through deep review by NASA. This is beyond stupid, NASA should already know if there is a safety problem in SpaceX, if they don't know they are just useless at their job.   

This.

36 launches in just two years over 3 launch pads. Is there anyone here who would not accept a seat on a Dragon 2 if offered? ANYONE?

[woods170]

This whole thing makes me still angry at Elon. He is smart and he is long enough in the business to know that you don't provide ammo to your detractors. Taking this hit was both stupid and completely superfluous.

You are mistaken IMO. This should be blamed on certain political critters for abusing their people-given political powers to further their own agendas.

The only reason why this review applies to both CCP providers is to cover NASA's ass. Had this review been ordered to apply to SpaceX alone than NASA would be facing a lawsuit faster than Jim Bridenstine can say Quidditch.

We know that. But by being needlessly stupid, Elon opened this particular flank to an attack. He knew or should have known that he openly flaunts federal law and the terms of SpaceX's contract.

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.

Wrong. Elon has not violated federal law until a court of law determines that he in fact did.
Innocent until proven guilty, remember?
That applies even in the USA.

Now you are splitting hairs. Be glad that there is no court case, otherwise the trouble could be much, much worse.
If he was found guilty, he would lose his security clearances, wouldn't he?

He probably wouldn't. AF already reviewed the impact of the "smoking pot" webcast and determined there was nothing to be held against either Elon or SpaceX.

[TripleSeven]

... DOZENS of NASA employees have been working with SpaceX side by side since the beginning on the program and their processes have gone through deep review by NASA. This is beyond stupid, NASA should already know if there is a safety problem in SpaceX, if they don't know they are just useless at their job.   

This.

36 launches in just two years over 3 launch pads. Is there anyone here who would not accept a seat on a Dragon 2 if offered? ANYONE?

I would want to see the escape system tested in a max Q abort for both or either system.

I would be OK with going with both companies parachute issues and the Boeing Thruster problem. 

[Robotbeat]

This whole thing makes me still angry at Elon. He is smart and he is long enough in the business to know that you don't provide ammo to your detractors. Taking this hit was both stupid and completely superfluous.

You are mistaken IMO. This should be blamed on certain political critters for abusing their people-given political powers to further their own agendas.

The only reason why this review applies to both CCP providers is to cover NASA's ass. Had this review been ordered to apply to SpaceX alone than NASA would be facing a lawsuit faster than Jim Bridenstine can say Quidditch.

We know that. But by being needlessly stupid, Elon opened this particular flank to an attack. He knew or should have known that he openly flaunts federal law and the terms of SpaceX's contract.

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.

A spade a spade??

A SPADE A SPADE???

If he had been drug tested Right freaking there on the spot, there’s a good chance the test wouldn’t even have shown anything except the alcohol.

We had to get a Constitutional Amendment to ban alcohol. Federal meddling in states’ rights like this is questionable constitutionally (as it goes beyond the areas of interest established in the constitution), and this whole thing reeks of abuse of power.


This is Banana Republic territory. Which unfortunately seems more and more common nowadays.

[programmerdan]

The politicians who set this in motion would love if you were mad at Elon instead of them. That's the whole point of this fishing expedition -- make Elon the villain who delayed the Crew Program, b/c he just HAD to take that puff of wacky.

Don't do that. Don't be an accessory to this.

[haywoodfloyd]

This is either:
A) one hand of NASA (the ASAP+SLS/Orion crowd) not coordinating with the other, or
B) NASA taking self-sabotage to the next level.

Whatever it is, it needs to stop. NASA has had deep insight into both programs for a long time, and should be well aware of the safety culture and what (if any) should be changed YEARS ago.

Finally, NASA and safety culture. Talk about shooting in a glass house. Pot, kettle, black. Take your euphemism pick.

You beat me to it. That's exactly what I was thinking as well. But maybe...just maybe, Bridenstine is being pushed into this by someone else (gee, I wonder who).

[jpo234]

A spade a spade??

A SPADE A SPADE???

If he had been drug tested Right freaking there on the spot, there’s a good chance the test wouldn’t even have shown anything except the alcohol.

We had to get a Constitutional Amendment to ban alcohol. Federal meddling in states’ rights like this is questionable constitutionally (as it goes beyond the areas of interest established in the constitution), and this whole thing reeks of abuse of power.


This is Banana Republic territory. Which unfortunately seems more and more common nowadays.

Last post from me in this thread: Elon is the highly visible CEO of a federal contractor. That makes him an "employee in a sensitive position". Smoking or pretending to smoke pot in public violates the spirit and the letter of SpaceX's contract. Doing this for absolutely no gain (except looking cool on a webcast) is IMHO needlessly stupid.

If you are trying to make humanity a space faring civilization, you should avoid such mistakes.

[rklaehn]

Last post from me in this thread: Elon is the highly visible CEO of a federal contractor. That makes him an "employee in a sensitive position". Smoking or pretending to smoke pot in public violates the spirit and the letter of SpaceX's contract. Doing this for absolutely no gain (except looking cool on a webcast) is IMHO needlessly stupid.

If you are trying to make humanity a space faring civilization, you should avoid such mistakes.

There are many CEOs that know exactly how to behave in public in order not to be a target for politically motivated investigations. *None of them* is investing billions of their own money to make humanity a space faring civilization.

If NASA can not work with brilliant people with somewhat eccentric personalities, they will have to launch on Soyuz until the next one blows up, then deorbit ISS.

[spacenut]

I worked in the natural gas industry.  We had random drug testing all the time.  The federal laws say no one can work in the electrical, natural gas, gasoline, or any industry where explosions or any dangerous situations can occur.  The drug testing also included alcohol testing.  They absolutely didn't want anyone working impaired.  Now Elon doesn't actually do the physical work on his rockets, his crew does.  Don't know how that would figure in. 

[Robotbeat]

A spade a spade??

A SPADE A SPADE???

If he had been drug tested Right freaking there on the spot, there’s a good chance the test wouldn’t even have shown anything except the alcohol.

We had to get a Constitutional Amendment to ban alcohol. Federal meddling in states’ rights like this is questionable constitutionally (as it goes beyond the areas of interest established in the constitution), and this whole thing reeks of abuse of power.


This is Banana Republic territory. Which unfortunately seems more and more common nowadays.

Last post from me in this thread: Elon is the highly visible CEO of a federal contractor. That makes him an "employee in a sensitive position". Smoking or pretending to smoke pot in public violates the spirit and the letter of SpaceX's contract. Doing this for absolutely no gain (except looking cool on a webcast) is IMHO needlessly stupid.

If you are trying to make humanity a space faring civilization, you should avoid such mistakes.

Right, because tediousness is going to get us to Mars.

There’s one thing I’ve learned from the NatGeo Mars series. And that’s that there’s no way we’re going to get to Mars with a bunch of joyless people no one wants to be around.

Stop blaming the victim of politically motivated, corrupt government trumped up charges.

Elon did nothing wrong, and it’s a violation of the rule of law and due process for this “review” process to go forward.

[edkyle99]

Wrong. Elon has not violated federal law until a court of law determines that he in fact did.
Innocent until proven guilty, remember?
That applies even in the USA.

Legal or illegal is really irrelevant in this situation.  CEOs are fired all the time for behavior that is not illegal.  One example was Boeing's Harry Stonecipher in 2005.  In recent years, CEOs have been fired at Intel, HP, Priceline, Best Buy, Papa John's, etc., for allegedly doing things that were perfectly legal.  The list goes on and on.

 - Ed Kyle 

[whitelancer64]

*snip*
It was pleasant to be within eight months or so of a SpaceX launch with crew.

We still are.

From what I hear: No.

There is going to be delays. Key personnel won't be available for work for some time because of the reviews being conducted.

Both manned demo missions (from Boeing and SpaceX) just shifted to the right. Its just a matter of time before this starts to show up on FPIP and other flight planning documentation.

SpaceX's uncrewed demo flight just shifted a day to the left.