NASA to launch safety review of SpaceX and Boeing after video of Elon Musk...

[jpo234]

This whole thing makes me still angry at Elon. He is smart and he is long enough in the business to know that you don't provide ammo to your detractors. Taking this hit was both stupid and completely superfluous.

The last person to be angry at for this is Elon. Let's not blame the victims because 'they could have seen it coming'.

He knowingly ignored or willfully violated federal law and regulations (as outdated as they may be). Did he really expect that there would be no consequences?

Yes, he should have seen it coming. He is not a blameless victim.

[AbuSimbel]

This whole thing makes me still angry at Elon. He is smart and he is long enough in the business to know that you don't provide ammo to your detractors. Taking this hit was both stupid and completely superfluous.

The last person to be angry at for this is Elon. Let's not blame the victims because 'they could have seen it coming'.

He knowingly ignored or willfully violated federal law and regulations (as outdated as they may be). Did he really expect that there would be no consequences?

Yes, he should have seen it coming. He is not a blameless victim.

'How foolish do you have to be if you don't expect consequences from barely puffing a joint you were offered, in your free time, in a state where it's legal to smoke pot?'

Can you point me out which federal laws or regulations he violated by taking a single hit of a joint he was offered in California?

This whole thing is stupid, not Elon Musk.

[RotoSequence]

Can you point me out which federal laws or regulations he violated by taking a single hit of a joint he was offered in California?

Article 6, Section 2 of the United States Constitution:

This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlevi

As a foundational underpinning of the nation's legal system, State law is fundamentally preempted by Federal law.  Strictly applying Federal law towards this matter, however, would be a joke, since it would be an obvious demonstration of targeted partiality utilizing a law that is not being properly enforced under the authority of the Executive Branch.

[docmordrid]

This whole thing makes me still angry at Elon.
>

Isn't that a bit like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt?

Sen. Shelby is an opportunistic ass, no matter which party he's been in (both.) He can't retire soon enough for my taste.

[jpo234]

This whole thing makes me still angry at Elon.
>

Isn't that a bit like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt?

Sen. Shelby is an opportunistic ass, no matter which party he's been in (both,) and can't retire soon enough for my taste.

Wearing a short skirt isn't illegal and SpaceX isn't subjected to a crime. Here is the relevant page from the CCTCAP contract. Note:

(3) The Contractor's program shall test for the use of marijuana and cocaine. The Contractor's
program may test for the use of other controlled substances.

[kevinof]

So do we know who "ordered" this? Was it Shelby telling Nasa to do an investigation or did this come from Nasa? Either way it shows that Bridenstine either supported the investigation or didn't have the balls to "just say no".

Not a great way to build a healthy ongoing business relationship.

[su27k]

This whole thing makes me still angry at Elon.
>

Isn't that a bit like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt?

Sen. Shelby is an opportunistic ass, no matter which party he's been in (both,) and can't retire soon enough for my taste.

Wearing a short skirt isn't illegal and SpaceX isn't subjected to a crime. Here is the relevant page from the CCTCAP contract. Note:

(3) The Contractor's program shall test for the use of marijuana and cocaine. The Contractor's
program may test for the use of other controlled substances.

This only talks about testing for controlled substances, it has nothing to do with this fracking "review".

[mlindner]

This whole thing makes me still angry at Elon. He is smart and he is long enough in the business to know that you don't provide ammo to your detractors. Taking this hit was both stupid and completely superfluous.

This type of post doesn't belong on this forum. Why are we the public trying to mandate what an individual does on their own damn time? It literally does not matter that he's a CEO. We really need to get out of this stupid mindset in this country.

[su27k]

This whole thing makes me still angry at Elon. He is smart and he is long enough in the business to know that you don't provide ammo to your detractors. Taking this hit was both stupid and completely superfluous.

The last person to be angry at for this is Elon. Let's not blame the victims because 'they could have seen it coming'.

He knowingly ignored or willfully violated federal law and regulations (as outdated as they may be). Did he really expect that there would be no consequences?

Yes, he should have seen it coming. He is not a blameless victim.

The "review" is politically motivated by Jurczyk's statement about SLS just a few weeks ago, there's no way Elon can foresee this. Since it's politically motivated, it doesn't matter what Elon did, if he didn't smoke joint, Shelby will just find some other excuse to start this "review".

[jpo234]

Wearing a short skirt isn't illegal and SpaceX isn't subjected to a crime. Here is the relevant page from the CCTCAP contract. Note:

(3) The Contractor's program shall test for the use of marijuana and cocaine. The Contractor's
program may test for the use of other controlled substances.

This only talks about testing for controlled substances, it has nothing to do with this fracking "review".

It provides the cover. That's all that's needed.

If you play in a high stakes environment, you can't afford mistakes.

[kevinof]

How do you know that? Was he charged with any crime? Was he drug tested? No.

While you may be right in that he smoked weed, you can't kick in an investigation based on something that was streamed online and no changes ever brought. You're assuming he did something wrong.

Cart before horse and all that.

[...

He knowingly ignored or willfully violated federal law and regulations (as outdated as they may be). Did he really expect that there would be no consequences?

Yes, he should have seen it coming. He is not a blameless victim.

[jpo234]

The "review" is politically motivated by Jurczyk's statement about SLS just a few weeks ago, there's no way Elon can foresee this. Since it's politically motivated, it doesn't matter what Elon did, if he didn't smoke joint, Shelby will just find some other excuse to start this "review".

You are probably right. But smoking weed in public is like wearing a "kick me" sign. It makes it easier for your detractors.

[IRobot]

I don't think this is a new thing. Elon's behavior may be the straw(s) that broke the camel's back, but both Boeing and SpaceX had findings in their last ISO 9001 audits that could indicate a poor safety culture.

ISO 9001 does not evaluate safety issues.

You've posted several times on this thread that ISO 9001 audit reveals a poor safety culture, but unless you have specific information regarding findings, I think your statements are pure FUD.

[su27k]

Wearing a short skirt isn't illegal and SpaceX isn't subjected to a crime. Here is the relevant page from the CCTCAP contract. Note:

(3) The Contractor's program shall test for the use of marijuana and cocaine. The Contractor's
program may test for the use of other controlled substances.

This only talks about testing for controlled substances, it has nothing to do with this fracking "review".

It provides the cover. That's all that's needed.

If all Shelby needs is a cover, he can easily use something else.

If you play in a high stakes environment, you can't afford mistakes.

Actually you have to be able to afford mistakes, since the only way to make no mistake is to quit the game. And Elon is kind of especially prone to mistakes, since he values decision speed more than decision correctness.

[jpo234]

How do you know that? Was he charged with any crime? Was he drug tested? No.

While you may be right in that he smoked weed, you can't kick in an investigation based on something that was streamed online and no changes ever brought. You're assuming he did something wrong.

Cart before horse and all that.

[...

He knowingly ignored or willfully violated federal law and regulations (as outdated as they may be). Did he really expect that there would be no consequences?

Yes, he should have seen it coming. He is not a blameless victim.

By being the CEO of a federal contractor, different rules apply. He is not just a private citizen.

Don't get me wrong: Yes, this "safety review" is a politically motivated show trial and should be condemned.

But Elon did something stupid and provided an easy target. Without this, his allies (and he has a lot of them) probably could have toned down the attack to something a lot less invasive and disrupting.

[AbuSimbel]

The "review" is politically motivated by Jurczyk's statement about SLS just a few weeks ago, there's no way Elon can foresee this. Since it's politically motivated, it doesn't matter what Elon did, if he didn't smoke joint, Shelby will just find some other excuse to start this "review".

You are probably right. But smoking weed in public is like wearing a "kick me" sign. It makes it easier for your detractors.

Again, that's what we are saying: Elon puffs a joint vs a slimy political move to unfairly hit him, 100s of people who have been working relentlessly for Commercial Crew and you choose to be angry at Elon...

This is victim blaming.

[jtrame]

I would have assumed that NASA was reviewing the safety of the two programs ongoing throughout their development.  That there was already a committee and observers were assigned and and reported back to headquarters on a regular basis.  That this was not the case and NASA is just now forming one shows that NASA was not doing their due diligence all along.  Interesting that they would admit this, but that's essentially what has just happened.

[jpo234]

If you play in a high stakes environment, you can't afford mistakes.

Actually you have to be able to afford mistakes, since the only way to make no mistake is to quit the game. And Elon is kind of especially prone to mistakes, since he values decision speed more than decision correctness.

Then change this to "avoidable, stupid mistakes".

[rklaehn]

This is infuriating.

If this was any other time, you could say it's just politics.

But we had not one but two major incidents with Soyuz just this year. The last one was almost a loss of crew. An in-flight abort is a big deal. Add to that the constant stream of quality issues in the Russian space industry.

If commercial crew gets delayed because of this, there is a decent chance that the luck will run out and astronauts will die because of this.

It almost seems as if NASA is more comfortable to work with the Russian government than with private companies in America.

[woods170]

This whole thing makes me still angry at Elon. He is smart and he is long enough in the business to know that you don't provide ammo to your detractors. Taking this hit was both stupid and completely superfluous.

You are mistaken IMO. This should be blamed on certain political critters for abusing their people-given political powers to further their own agendas.

The only reason why this review applies to both CCP providers is to cover NASA's *ss. Had this review been ordered to apply to SpaceX alone than NASA would be facing a lawsuit faster than Jim Bridenstine can say Quidditch.