Author Topic: FAILURE: Soyuz MS-10 - October 11, 2018 - Baikonur (DISCUSSION)  (Read 44729 times)

Offline Eosterwine

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you know what I meant

Offline Leither

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Images of MS-10 rollout and lift to launch attitude from SFN
https://spaceflightnow.com/2018/10/10/photos-soyuz-transferred-to-baikonur-launch-pad/

Excerpt showing stage 1 connection to core at booster 4.

Itís a complicated connection and any failure of the cutting charges could be problematic.

Opinions?
I think the problem lies at the forward end of the booster not the rear attachment.  It seems more likely the oxygen vent valve may have malfunctioned and failed to push the booster away from the centre core.  The venting oxygen is what makes the Korolev cross so visible, not the engine exhaust.  MS-10 has a very 'ragged' cross. 

Offline GWR64

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I think :
The outer block seems to have pushed further, after the bottom connections were disconnected.
As a result, the tip of the outer block was rammed into the oxygen tank in block A and the Soyuz out of the direction.
« Last Edit: 10/14/2018 03:13 PM by GWR64 »

Offline speedevil

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I think :
The outer block seems to have pushed further, after the bottom connections were disconnected.
As a result, the tip of the outer block was rammed into the oxygen tank in block A and the Soyuz out of the direction.
The rocket isn't robust enough that you can push on it at one point and create a large change in attitude or acceleration without rupturing it.
The stack at this point weighs well over 100 tons.

The amount you can move it over a second of contact, even with a hundred tons of force is only five meters.

Offline dccraven

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Here is a link to what appears to be an excellent explanation of the 1st stage to 2nd stage connections and the process of separation. It also seems to indicate that there have been several failures of this arrangement down through the years.

https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fkik-sssr.ru%2FIP_4_Turatam_old_Razdel_1.htm&edit-text=

Offline eeergo

Here is a link to what appears to be an excellent explanation of the 1st stage to 2nd stage connections and the process of separation. It also seems to indicate that there have been several failures of this arrangement down through the years.

https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fkik-sssr.ru%2FIP_4_Turatam_old_Razdel_1.htm&edit-text=

Fantastic, that is a precious compendium of every R7 first stage failure I ever got to see scattered around the Internet, and the detailed accounts of how the systems work are invaluable. Wonderful find, thanks!


It also shows that, if indeed the oxygen pressurization valve failed to open at separation, allowing the side booster's tip to pierce Block A, then the systems involved could have been the pyrovalve itself or the vertical displacement "sensor".
« Last Edit: 10/14/2018 09:02 PM by eeergo »
-DaviD-

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My question is, is the rocket moving sideways at this point? 


Here is a better video of the sideways motion of the second stage after the incident.  Several swings are indicated.

Soyuz MS-10 in-flight abort (close-up)

SciNews
Published on Oct 14, 2018

A Soyuz-FG rocket launched the Soyuz MS-10 spacecraft from the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan, on 11 October 2018, at 08:40 UTC (14:40 local time). Shortly after launch, an in-flight abort was triggered by an issue with the booster. The spacecraft separated and the capsule returned in a ballistic decent mode. International Space Station Expedition 57-58 crew members, NASA astronaut Nick Hague and Roscosmos cosmonaut Alexey Ovchinin were safely recovered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF_9mVUvl3Y?t=001

Tony De La Rosa

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Here is another version of the above:

Soyuz MS-10 Failure extended (stabilization, zoom 2x, slow motion 25% with frame interpolation)


AstronautiCAST
Published on Oct 14, 2018

Edit by Riccardo Rossi (ISAA) - Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License -

Original footage courtesy of Roscosmos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rROPB0QrZVY?t=001

Tony De La Rosa

Offline jacqmans

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Offline SciNews

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With all due respect to Chris Hadfield, he could have chosen his words better and not describe the current ISS crew as "marooned" repeatedly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qgQLmbwtec?t=173
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia1DtOxPKiU?t=163
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeMxbFpcsa4?t=356

Offline Kosmos2001

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Here is another version of the above:

Soyuz MS-10 Failure extended (stabilization, zoom 2x, slow motion 25% with frame interpolation)


AstronautiCAST
Published on Oct 14, 2018

Edit by Riccardo Rossi (ISAA) - Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License -

Original footage courtesy of Roscosmos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rROPB0QrZVY?t=001



Wow! Look at the central core pitching/yawing from 0:40 until the end.
« Last Edit: 10/15/2018 10:32 AM by Kosmos2001 »

Offline eeergo

Here is another version of the above:

Soyuz MS-10 Failure extended (stabilization, zoom 2x, slow motion 25% with frame interpolation)


AstronautiCAST
Published on Oct 14, 2018

Edit by Riccardo Rossi (ISAA) - Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License -

Original footage courtesy of Roscosmos


In these videos it's very noticeable which one is the booster that failed to separate properly.

It's the one on the right of the rocket as seen from the camera. Watching the whole launch it is clear that's the one lying on the pitch/-Z axis (Soyuz FG launches from a rotated launch mount so there is no roll to confound things), which means the defective booster should be Block V.
« Last Edit: 10/15/2018 04:42 PM by eeergo »
-DaviD-

Offline asmi

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As per NK forum apparently the LAS signal is suppressed for 6 seconds after separation to allow core stage to stabilize before LAS monitoring is re-activated again.

Offline Alexphysics

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As per NK forum apparently the LAS signal is suppressed for 6 seconds after separation to allow core stage to stabilize before LAS monitoring is re-activated again.

That's also on the RussianSpaceWeb.com article about the Soyuz MS-10. The booster sep (and failiure) was at T+117 seconds into flight and the LES was automatically activated 6 seconds later at T+123 seconds.

Offline kdhilliard

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Here is another version of the above:

Soyuz MS-10 Failure extended (stabilization, zoom 2x, slow motion 25% with frame interpolation)

AstronautiCAST
Published on Oct 14, 2018
Edit by Riccardo Rossi (ISAA) - Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License -
Original footage courtesy of Roscosmos



Do we know what caused the momentary disturbance in the plume at 0:22 in that video?

Offline whitelancer64

Here is another version of the above:

Soyuz MS-10 Failure extended (stabilization, zoom 2x, slow motion 25% with frame interpolation)

AstronautiCAST
Published on Oct 14, 2018
Edit by Riccardo Rossi (ISAA) - Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License -
Original footage courtesy of Roscosmos



Do we know what caused the momentary disturbance in the plume at 0:22 in that video?

That's the initiation of 1st stage separation.

The same plume disruption happens in other Soyuz launch videos.

Good side-by-side video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHWDNrrfhnI?t=132
« Last Edit: 10/15/2018 10:16 PM by whitelancer64 »
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Offline russianhalo117

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Here is another version of the above:

Soyuz MS-10 Failure extended (stabilization, zoom 2x, slow motion 25% with frame interpolation)


AstronautiCAST
Published on Oct 14, 2018

Edit by Riccardo Rossi (ISAA) - Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License -

Original footage courtesy of Roscosmos


In these videos it's very noticeable which one is the booster that failed to separate properly.

It's the one on the right of the rocket as seen from the camera. Watching the whole launch it is clear that's the one lying on the pitch/-Z axis (Soyuz FG launches from a rotated launch mount so there is no roll to confound things), which means the defective booster should be Block V.
V could have also been effected but Block D per Russian Space Web is quoted as the culprit:
Images available from the BSVK video system confirmed abnormal behavior of the D strap-on booster of the first stage with the failed oxidizer valve.

Offline eeergo


In these videos it's very noticeable which one is the booster that failed to separate properly.

It's the one on the right of the rocket as seen from the camera. Watching the whole launch it is clear that's the one lying on the pitch/-Z axis (Soyuz FG launches from a rotated launch mount so there is no roll to confound things), which means the defective booster should be Block V.
V could have also been effected but Block D per Russian Space Web is quoted as the culprit:
Images available from the BSVK video system confirmed abnormal behavior of the D strap-on booster of the first stage with the failed oxidizer valve.


Ok, I was basing my identification on the attached image (credit: Starsem, via SpaceFlight101) and the fact in the video the Soyuz pitches down away from the camera, while the booster that fails to separate with the other three is located on the right side in that video. Maybe the video is mirrored?
-DaviD-

Offline SLC

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This is a really informative link. Thank you!

Here is a link to what appears to be an excellent explanation of the 1st stage to 2nd stage connections and the process of separation. It also seems to indicate that there have been several failures of this arrangement down through the years.

https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fkik-sssr.ru%2FIP_4_Turatam_old_Razdel_1.htm&edit-text=
... and I too will be calling the side boosters "carrots" from now on.  It's surprisingly readable for a machine translation (although it did take me a minute to work out that "sour native" is oxy-gen).

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... and I too will be calling the side boosters "carrots" from now on.  It's surprisingly readable for a machine translation (although it did take me a minute to work out that "sour native" is oxy-gen).

Please give the machine feedback that it's oxygen, as that makes it better.
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