Author Topic: Michigan Low Earth Orbit Launch Facility (Read 8682 times)

docmordrid · « **on:** 09/21/2018 09:05 pm »

https://twitter.com/Pat_Host/status/1042836073917894656

@Pat_Host (Jane's)
Apparently Michigan wants its own LEO launch facility, according to this agenda for a space conference next week in Traverse City

https://t.co/RSFL6f32hT

Two events sponsored by the Michigan Aerospace Manufacturers Association (MAMA); Sept. 25 and 26,

The event on the 25th covers commercial space and satellite cyber security. Chrystal A. Morgan of ULA and Mike Carey of Atlas Space Operations are participating.

Keynote: Lt Gen David A. Deptula, USAF (Ret.)

The event on the 26th has a round table titled Michigan Low Earth Orbit Launch Facility. Dan Shanahan of Boeing Defense, Space and Security is participating.

ISTM one site choice could be the former Keweenaw Rocket Range in Michigan's Upper Peninsula, which closed in 1971.

Eric Hedman · « **Reply #1 on:** 09/21/2018 10:22 pm »

Why? Is there a market for another launch facility?

docmordrid · « **Reply #2 on:** 09/22/2018 01:46 am »

My $0.02; MI is in a tech surge, including space industry startups, which took off after the State budget turned black and later Detroit started to stabilize. Many things went from "why?" to "why not?"

Eric Hedman · « **Reply #3 on:** 09/22/2018 05:25 am »

Quote from: docmordrid on 09/22/2018 01:46 am

My $0.02; MI is in a tech surge, including space industry startups, which took off after the State budget turned black and later Detroit started to stabilize. Many things went from "why?" to "why not?"

We do live in interesting times. I live across Lake Michigan from you in Wisconsin. We've had quite the economic surge here too in the last few years. We have the new Foxconn $10 billion dollar factory going up. It's triggering a wave of new growth in the state. Venture capital for the first time in this state is flowing in significant quantities since the crash of 1929. Creative startups try everything possible under the Sun when cash is available. Most won't make it, but there might be some spectacular successes. So I guess why not for a launch facility in the UP.

I'd be curious to see what kind of launch vehicle they want to bring to such an unusual location. You do have the Great Lakes for splashing expendable first stages, but that's only in some launch directions. You could launch towards the north, but Canada would probably have some say in expendable first stages coming down in their territory. If you go south for a polar orbit, you're going towards Milwaukee and Chicago with major air traffic corridors. The UP is a bad spot for more equatorial orbits. I can't imagine SpaceX or Blue Origin bringing a reusable rocket to this location any time soon. I would love to find out what they think the business case is for a building a launch facility now.

docmordrid · « **Reply #4 on:** 09/22/2018 05:42 am »

Quote from: Eric Hedman on 09/22/2018 05:25 am

Quote from: docmordrid on 09/22/2018 01:46 am
My $0.02; MI is in a tech surge, including space industry startups, which took off after the State budget turned black and later Detroit started to stabilize. Many things went from "why?" to "why not?"
We do live in interesting times.
>

Indeed. In my 6.8 decades I've seen more changes in MI p in the last 8 years than the last 40.

Quote

I'd be curious to see what kind of launch vehicle they want to bring to such an unusual location. You do have the Great Lakes for splashing expendable first stages, but that's only in some launch directions.
>
I would love to find out what they think the business case is for a building a launch facility now.

From Keweenaw R.R. it's about 100 miles to the North shore of Lake Superior, and about 580 miles to the South shore of Hudson's Bay. About 400 miles to the South shore of Lake Michigan.

rdale · « **Reply #5 on:** 04/25/2019 01:13 pm »

It's alive again!

https://www.bridgemi.com/public-sector/all-systems-go-once-again-michigans-25m-rocket-plan

And here's a story from a time when Michigan actually did launch NASA rockets

https://www.mlive.com/news/2018/08/rockets_once_flew_at_launch_pa.html

jjyach · « **Reply #6 on:** 04/25/2019 01:57 pm »

Quote from: rdale on 04/25/2019 01:13 pm

It's alive again!

https://www.bridgemi.com/public-sector/all-systems-go-once-again-michigans-25m-rocket-plan

And here's a story from a time when Michigan actually did launch NASA rockets

https://www.mlive.com/news/2018/08/rockets_once_flew_at_launch_pa.html

Having camped there many a time, it is a great site, but it will need better road access. With my alma mater Michigan Tech having a payload on STP-2 I could see them possibly wanting that site used for other future items.

rdale · « **Reply #7 on:** 04/25/2019 01:58 pm »

To clarify - I see zero possibility of this new site (if it happens) going in the UP. Most likely would be Alpena.

rdale · « **Reply #8 on:** 05/17/2019 10:43 pm »

https://www.dbusiness.com/from-the-magazine/rockets-red-glare/

Lower Peninsula sites under consideration for the Michigan space port are Rogers City (on the shores of Lake Huron between Alpena and Cheboygan), Oscoda (home of the decommissioned Wurtsmith Air Force Base), and Alpena (just north of Oscoda). In the Upper Peninsula, Chippewa County (directly north of the Mackinac Bridge and the Sault Ste. Marie State Forest) and the decommissioned K.I. Sawyer Air Force Base (now Sawyer International Airport) in Marquette County are other candidates.

Greg906 · « **Reply #9 on:** 05/21/2019 12:43 pm »

I've been watching this topic on the interwebs since last fall, and interesting how it keeps bubbling up in local media as the state's aerospace manufacturer's association gives public talks. One example here:

https://www.miningjournal.net/news/front-page-news/2019/05/spaceport-for-sawyer/

Two questions:

Is there a practical business case for Michigan to have a spaceport?

Aside from just talk, what is the next concrete step that would need to be taken?

...as a life-long space nerd, political scientist, and denizen of Michigan's Upper Peninsula, it's fun to speculate. But what's the realistic odds here?

Lar · « **Reply #10 on:** 05/21/2019 04:10 pm »

I went to MTU ("da tech") after growing up in Petoskey and currently live in Grand Rapids...

I'm dubious that this is actually a good idea at this point in the development of space economies. Not needed. Further, long term these remote locations are negatives, something closer to population centers for SpaceX (and others) P2P services would be more well suited to reduce travel times.

I see this as a way for local pols to bring home some gravy, not actually a useful thing. But if one was built I'd go watch launches.

Zed_Noir · « **Reply #11 on:** 05/21/2019 08:33 pm »

Slightly OT.

Maybe in the future you could have floating spaceport platform(s) in middle of lake Michigan between Grand Rapids and Milwaukee providing polar P2P flights with fast ferry and VTOL aircraft links to the aforementioned city regions and the Chicago waterfront.

rdale · « **Reply #12 on:** 01/23/2020 07:01 pm »

"The Michigan Aerospace Manufacturing Association is expected to announce next Tuesday January 28 the site for a horizontal launch site in Michigan."

https://www.uppermichiganssource.com/content/news/Spaceport-announcement-567216181.html

rdale · « **Reply #13 on:** 01/31/2020 02:11 am »

A few more weeks...

https://www.ironmountaindailynews.com/opinion/editorials/2020/01/sawyer-in-running-to-be-a-spaceport/

rdale · « **Reply #14 on:** 02/18/2020 01:33 am »

“The announcement will be made at a press conference at 9:30 a.m. Tuesday.“ (EST, 1430UTC)

https://www.wilx.com/content/news/New-satellite-launch-facility-location-567949731.html

rdale · « **Reply #15 on:** 02/18/2020 02:36 pm »

We're going to Alpena

(Well, Oscoda Michigan technically.)

https://www.wlns.com/news/michigan/plan-to-create-satellite-launch-site-in-michigan-unveiled/

rdale · « **Reply #16 on:** 07/24/2020 12:52 pm »

Well we're not just going to Alpena - that's not in a bad enough weather area

Oscoda (Alpena) will be for horizontal launches, and Marquette for vertical.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2020/07/23/michigan-rocket-launch-site-marquette/5493837002/

http://www.michman.org/

rpapo · « **Reply #17 on:** 08/09/2020 10:28 am »

The NIMBY crew strikes again. See article in the Detroit Free Press today.

rdale · « **Reply #18 on:** 09/23/2020 06:52 pm »

After dire predictions of Michigan's 2021 budget due to COVID income loss - the legislature agreed to a budget that allocated $500,000 for the Michigan Aerospace Manufacturers Association, which is planning space launch centers in Oscoda and Marquette.

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/schools-spared-pork-added-pure-michigan-restored-628b-state-budget

rdale · « **Reply #19 on:** 02/01/2021 12:13 pm »

Mission control has been picked...

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/01/28/sault-ste-marie-chippewa-county-rocket-launch-command-site/4291399001/

rdale · « **Reply #20 on:** 04/24/2022 11:02 pm »

Uh oh - it appears some important details were left out of previous communications from the Michigan space group…

https://www.newyorker.com/news/us-journal/the-plan-to-make-michigan-the-next-space-state?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=TNY_Daily_042422

“the annual revenue generated from a launch cadence of one rocket launch per week in Michigan would have the same revenue impact in the State equal to the annual revenue of two additional fast-food chain restaurants.”

rdale · « **Reply #21 on:** 09/15/2022 10:40 am »

Where’s my ‘shocked’ emoji?

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/michigan-spent-25m-be-rocket-hub-critics-say-its-produced-only-hype

arachnitect · « **Reply #22 on:** 09/15/2022 01:36 pm »

Quote from: rdale on 09/15/2022 10:40 am

Where’s my ‘shocked’ emoji?

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/michigan-spent-25m-be-rocket-hub-critics-say-its-produced-only-hype

FYI for those who don't click through, the amount spent is $2.5 Million, not $25M.

Robotbeat · « **Reply #23 on:** 09/15/2022 01:56 pm »

$2.5m isn’t very much.

The annual revenue mentioned… sounds like just launch license fees? The obvious benefit from such a thing is not just generating license fees but an aerospace hub with high paying jobs.

Maybe Michigan doesn’t need that. At least right now, employment rate is fairly high, and it’s not obvious they need more jobs. Spending to increase employment only helps if you need more employment. But it is clearly a bigger impact than two McDonalds’. The tourism impact alone would be a lot more.

You don’t just automatically get big multiplier effects from just any kind of spending unless you’re in a demand-deficit recession of some sort (regional or national). If you’re meeting an important need, you can do better than mere Keynesian multipliers, though. But there’s not really a sign that there aren’t enough launch sites, so you’d have to make a stronger case that the Michigan site has a unique advantage.

Freshwater is FAR less corrosive than saltwater, so it’d make some kinds of rocket reuse a lot easier. That is one argument, but without more information, it’s not enough.

If point to point cargo (or even passenger) travel becomes a thing, then the argument for a regional spaceport becomes stronger (for the same reason cities need airports—there’s a very large logistical argument—cities need to be well-connected to thrive), but that’d still be very much cart-before-the-horse right now. But maybe not for too much longer… The DoD has given out rocket cargo development contracts to multiple companies, now (SpaceX and RocketLab, and perhaps a few more?).

Robotbeat · « **Reply #24 on:** 09/15/2022 02:04 pm »

Pretty freaking hilarious this person doesn’t think there are heavy industrial sites on Lake Superior, though, which is used for transport of iron ore from one of the largest source of iron ore in the world…

Quote

“It’s really quite remarkable that anyone would consider putting a heavy industrial facility [like a launch pad] on the coastline of the largest body of freshwater in the world,” said Dennis Ferraro, who lives about 3 miles from the selected site and leads the opposition group Citizens for a Safe & Clean Lake Superior.

As someone who has been to Lake Superior many times, it has some of the largest industrial sites on it that I’ve ever seen in my life, and the same is true for the other Great Lakes, which formed the logistical network to connect the whole upper Midwest and Northeast industrial heartland of America, making America the manufacturing hub of the world, back when America actually was on the forefront of manufactured stuff instead of a post-industrializing nation exporting our industrial capacity to China…

rdale · « **Reply #25 on:** 12/14/2023 01:01 pm »

The township where the launch site was going to be located said no...

And there are legal questions behind how the grant was obtained and what the money was used for...

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/dana-nessels-office-probing-2m-rocket-plan-failed-launch