Author Topic: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8  (Read 61493 times)

Offline D_Dom

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #140 on: 11/04/2018 02:28 AM »
Speaking from experience, drinking with Russian rocket scientists will alter your thought process. Personally I try to avoid starting, it is just too fun to even think about stopping!
Space is not merely a matter of life or death, it is considerably more important than that!

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #141 on: 11/04/2018 07:03 AM »
I'm pretty sure B2 would be the gate on hwy 4 to the field sw of the dishes, where the two small, blue buildings are. B1 will probably be a gate on the other side of that field.
 A lot of my brain cells seem to be sputtering after several instances of drinking with Russians, so I won't swear to anything.

You're not drinking with Russians who work in rocket assembly jobs are you? Because that could explain a lot.
Yes. We were talking about getting balls into sockets, and I advised them just to smack it with a hammer. Why? Did I miss something?

Online vaporcobra

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #142 on: 11/04/2018 08:31 AM »
I'm pretty sure B2 would be the gate on hwy 4 to the field sw of the dishes, where the two small, blue buildings are. B1 will probably be a gate on the other side of that field.
 A lot of my brain cells seem to be sputtering after several instances of drinking with Russians, so I won't swear to anything.

You're not drinking with Russians who work in rocket assembly jobs are you? Because that could explain a lot.
Yes. We were talking about getting balls into sockets, and I advised them just to smack it with a hammer. Why? Did I miss something?

#toosoon

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #143 on: 11/04/2018 01:14 PM »
I'm pretty sure B2 would be the gate on hwy 4 to the field sw of the dishes, where the two small, blue buildings are. B1 will probably be a gate on the other side of that field.

Online MickQ

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #144 on: 11/05/2018 09:45 AM »
I'm pretty sure B2 would be the gate on hwy 4 to the field sw of the dishes, where the two small, blue buildings are. B1 will probably be a gate on the other side of that field.
 A lot of my brain cells seem to be sputtering after several instances of drinking with Russians, so I won't swear to anything.

You're not drinking with Russians who work in rocket assembly jobs are you? Because that could explain a lot.
Yes. We were talking about getting balls into sockets, and I advised them just to smack it with a hammer. Why? Did I miss something?

Was this before or after that last Soyuz failure ?

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #145 on: 11/05/2018 01:29 PM »
I'm pretty sure B2 would be the gate on hwy 4 to the field sw of the dishes, where the two small, blue buildings are. B1 will probably be a gate on the other side of that field.
 A lot of my brain cells seem to be sputtering after several instances of drinking with Russians, so I won't swear to anything.

You're not drinking with Russians who work in rocket assembly jobs are you? Because that could explain a lot.
Yes. We were talking about getting balls into sockets, and I advised them just to smack it with a hammer. Why? Did I miss something?

Was this before or after that last Soyuz failure ?
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Online MickQ

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #146 on: 11/06/2018 09:34 AM »
Oh!  Did I miss something ?

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #147 on: 11/08/2018 09:09 AM »
Recent tweet from Elon gives some indication of the types of BFS tests they will perform here:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1060282495541727234
« Last Edit: 11/08/2018 09:09 AM by Dave G »

Offline SPITexas

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #148 on: 11/08/2018 12:53 PM »
Recent tweet from Elon gives some indication of the types of BFS tests they will perform here:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1060282495541727234

He says itís basically Like a mini-BFS/BFR  built like a falcon 9. so a Falcon 9 will launch from Bica Chica first? Thatíll be very cool to see. I liked how he said the sites real name Boca Chica instead of Brownsville very nice.

Offline speedevil

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #149 on: 11/08/2018 01:08 PM »
Recent tweet from Elon gives some indication of the types of BFS tests they will perform here:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1060282495541727234

'supersonic through landing' - the nominal BFS profile for the end of flight is to decelerate mostly smoothly from orbital speed, with the nose pointed very high, and the belly in the direction of flight.
Some side-side wiggles to trim the trajectory.

At around mach 2-3 and 30km, it rapidly finishes losing speed, and by 20km, is falling vertically supersonically with belly down.
This is two minutes before landing.

At 10km, it slows past the sound barrier, and continues to fall while slowing to 100m/s at 1200m or so.
It rapidly flips over, and ignites the engines when it gets to vertical, for a 16s or so landing burn beginning at 800m.

This means to test the transition ranges, it first needs to do test hops to ~3000m or so, turn off the engines, go horizontal, and then return vertical and land.
This then would be extended through rather more energetic flights starting out the test phase ~20km downrange and at mach 2-3 at 30km.

Assuming that Musk would have said 'hypersonic' if it was >mach 5, there is nothing the vehicle apparently does in the mach 5-3 range which is interesting - the body attitude does not change.

If they are testing the two transitions - from very tilted to horizontal and from horizontal to vertical, the most energetic they need to get on entry to the tests is 20km downrange at 30km altitude and mach 2-3.

This would be well under a hundred tons of propellant per flight , unless a fully laden cargo mass is added.
(back of the envelope sums only)

From 'dear moon' video graphs.

Offline IntoTheVoid

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #150 on: 11/08/2018 01:38 PM »
'supersonic through landing' - the nominal BFS profile for the end of flight is to decelerate mostly smoothly from orbital speed, with the nose pointed very high, and the belly in the direction of flight.
Some side-side wiggles to trim the trajectory.

From the context, this would be a minimum based on what they're not doing with the Baby BFS, but doesn't mean they won't do more, particularly after it's tested with the Baby BFS.

Offline Nydoc

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #151 on: 11/08/2018 02:23 PM »
Recent tweet from Elon gives some indication of the types of BFS tests they will perform here:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1060282495541727234

He says itís basically Like a mini-BFS/BFR  built like a falcon 9. so a Falcon 9 will launch from Bica Chica first? Thatíll be very cool to see. I liked how he said the sites real name Boca Chica instead of Brownsville very nice.
I think you got it wrong. My reading of this is that there are to be two test vehicles:

ē A mini BFS which flies atop F9 to test ultra light heat shield and high Mach control surfaces throughout reentry.
ē The BFS dev ship which will do supersonic through landing tests in Boca Chica.

This doesn't imply that F9 will fly from Boca Chica.

Offline edzieba

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #152 on: 11/08/2018 02:56 PM »
Recent tweet from Elon gives some indication of the types of BFS tests they will perform here:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1060282495541727234

He says itís basically Like a mini-BFS/BFR  built like a falcon 9. so a Falcon 9 will launch from Bica Chica first? Thatíll be very cool to see. I liked how he said the sites real name Boca Chica instead of Brownsville very nice.
He means that the mini-BFS (LFS?) will be launched atop a Falcon 9 - presumably from existing pads - but will not be used for proulsive landing tests. The full-size test BFS will be performing propulsing landing tests at Boca Chica.

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #153 on: 11/08/2018 04:59 PM »
so a Falcon 9 will launch from Bica Chica first? Thatíll be very cool to see.

Wishing for something doesn't make it so.

To be clear, Musk's recent tweets said:
1) A mini BFS upper stage will launch on Falcon 9.
2) This mini BFS upper stage will not land propulsively.
3) A full-scale BFR development ship will do supersonic through landing tests in Boca Chica.

If that's not clear enough, there's also this quote from Elon:

Quote from: Elon Musk
Our South Texas launch site will be dedicated to BFR, because we get enough capacity with two launch complexes at Cape Canaveral and one at Vandenberg to handle all of the Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy missions.

https://gist.github.com/theinternetftw/5ba82bd5f4099934fa0556b9d09c123e

So according to the latest info, Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy will not launch from the South Texas launch site.

Offline SPITexas

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #154 on: 11/08/2018 05:40 PM »
so a Falcon 9 will launch from Bica Chica first? Thatíll be very cool to see.

Wishing for something doesn't make it so.

To be clear, Musk's recent tweets said:
1) A mini BFS upper stage will launch on Falcon 9.
2) This mini BFS upper stage will not land propulsively.
3) A full-scale BFR development ship will do supersonic through landing tests in Boca Chica.

If that's not clear enough, there's also this quote from Elon:

Quote from: Elon Musk
Our South Texas launch site will be dedicated to BFR, because we get enough capacity with two launch complexes at Cape Canaveral and one at Vandenberg to handle all of the Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy missions.

https://gist.github.com/theinternetftw/5ba82bd5f4099934fa0556b9d09c123e

So according to the latest info, Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy will not launch from the South Texas launch site.

Yeah I get it what got my attention was Elon saying BFR for test at Boca Chica. Is he saying he will only test the booster without the BFS also or does he mean BFS still? Sorry I thought the falcon will launch from here, knowing itís dedicated for the ships.
« Last Edit: 11/08/2018 06:00 PM by SPITexas »

Offline BadgerLegs

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #155 on: 11/08/2018 06:41 PM »
Here is what I gather from looking at the tweets:  They will test the BFS by doing high-altitude Grasshopper like flights to pin-down the supersonic-through-landing phase.  They will modify the F9 upper stage with control surfaces and a heat shield to test reentry characteristics that will later be applied to orbital BFS.  It does not rule out landing the Mini BFS, though.  They could use SuperDraco engines to do this, maybe in combination with parachutes.  MVAC is a bad idea in this case as the nozzle would crumple. 

Offline NewSpaceIsFun

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #156 on: 11/08/2018 08:15 PM »
I'm kind of wondering about the possibility that this "test bed" F9S2/mini-BFS could be partly a result of the need for a more controllable/capture-able  reusable second stage... Just in case the fairing-capture-gambit is not panning out and you don't want to throw away all those fairings as you are trying to accelerate Starlink rollout. So....reusable smallish-sat deployer! :) Yeah bad mass fraction or whatever, but you get the hardware back each time. Gotta add deploy door/mechanism, extra cold gas, chutes and carrying that integrated "fairing" all the way to LEO reduces usable payload..but we want cheap not high performance. If I'm moving quick/agile and want a quick turnaround this sounds doable as right now I'm the only customer.

If mini-BFS works out ok and is helping reduce Starlink rollout time/costs, and if you give customers with smaller sats a cut in price you might be able reduce S2/fairing manufacturing overhead even more all while having Customers(Starlink is a Customer, right?) pay for dev work. Also note that a fairing half somewhat approximates the aero profile of a falling BFS right? They have a lot of recent experience with that regime, but slower. Of course mini-BFS is probably much heavier than a fairing half when being captured.

Has there been a slowdown in fairing-capture exercises?
How many Starlink sats (gen-1) can a mini-BFS delivery to orbit?
If the net could capture a Dragon, how much more does an almost empty mini-BFS weight?

Also, I'm guessing std lithium-based F9 and Mvac... Moving quick right!!??

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #157 on: 11/08/2018 09:06 PM »
For speculation about how Elon's recent tweets affect what we know about the South Texas launch site, this is the right thread.

For speculation surrounding mini-BFS, you may be better off posting on the thread below.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=46716.msg1874266#msg1874266


Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #158 on: 11/08/2018 09:31 PM »
Is he saying he will only test the booster without the BFS also or does he mean BFS still? Sorry I thought the falcon will launch from here, knowing itís dedicated for the ships.

1) We know they plan to do sub-orbital tests of BFS (a.k.a. BFR dev ship) from the Boca Chica launch site.  This is just the space ship part without the BFR booster.

2) We know they no longer plan to launch Falcon 9 or Falcon Heavy from the the Boca Chica launch site.

3) We don't know what their plans are beyond this. 

If they want to use the Boca Chica launch site for the BFR booster and/or the full BFR/BFS stack, they'll need to get approval from the FAA. The FAA approval process requires amending the current EIS.  Amending the EIS requires a public comment period.  A public comment period means local news coverage, which means we will know when this happens. It hasn't happened yet.

Note: When Musk announced Yusaku Maezawa as the first lunar BFR passenger, he also mentioned the possibility of an off-shore launch platform.

Everything beyond that is speculation.  For example, after the initial BFS tests, it may be that the Boca Chica site will just be used as a control center and tracking station.  Or not.  We don't know.

Offline John Alan

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 8
« Reply #159 on: 11/08/2018 09:46 PM »
Boca Chica MAY later be used as a landing, refurb and sub orbital relaunch facility for BFS vehicles in the fleet...

It's place as a mid continent command and relay station is a given with the two dishes...

I could see them using sub-orbital hops to move spare BFS's and BFR's around the world in 10 years time...  ;)

But the only kerosene that will ever burn on that site is maybe a helicopter coming and going someday...  ???

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