Author Topic: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)  (Read 176611 times)

Online gongora

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8911
  • US
  • Liked: 11009
  • Likes Given: 4943
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #280 on: 08/09/2020 11:22 pm »
Will the new class C fairing the new contract implies be available for commercial/civilian missions, or is that locked to national security launches?

There's no reason it wouldn't be available for all missions.  It will be more expensive and probably produced in small quantities.  It will be interesting to see the details on those fairings.  They could be outsourced, and I wouldn't be shocked if they required vertical integration (or at least different integration fixtures when putting it on the launcher, like Sea Launch used to do.)

Online Alexphysics

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1162
  • Spain
  • Liked: 2959
  • Likes Given: 793
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #281 on: 08/09/2020 11:33 pm »
Does it even fit inside the HIF? The current fairing is still right there on the edge of fitting through the doors of the HIF

Offline Jarnis

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1293
  • Liked: 801
  • Likes Given: 195
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #282 on: 08/10/2020 02:40 am »
Would seem fairly simple to extend the HIF by a few meters...

Offline Tomness

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Into the abyss will I run
  • Liked: 233
  • Likes Given: 698
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #283 on: 08/10/2020 04:38 am »
Would seem fairly simple to extend the HIF by a few meters...

No need, that's what the New Vertical integration Mobile Tower is for.

Offline woods170

  • IRAS fan
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11201
  • IRAS fan
  • The Netherlands
  • Liked: 14635
  • Likes Given: 8627
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #284 on: 08/10/2020 08:06 am »
Would seem fairly simple to extend the HIF by a few meters...

No need, that's what the New Vertical integration Mobile Tower is for.

Exactly. It took a few days for my sources to get back to me but they basically confirmed that the $316 million, for their first launch under phase 2 of NSSL, includes what most people are already suspecting: the total cost of constructing and certifying the MST. As well as funding for other one-off modifications and procurements to support the phase 2 NSSL missions.

Offline Zed_Noir

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4075
  • Canada
  • Liked: 1191
  • Likes Given: 1103
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #285 on: 08/10/2020 10:01 am »
Does SpaceX have a crane in the new mobile service tower to lift up payloads requiring vertical integration?

Offline [email protected]

Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #286 on: 08/10/2020 11:55 am »
Does SpaceX have a crane in the new mobile service tower to lift up payloads requiring vertical integration?
I'm sure that is already accounted into MST funding
My parents was just being born when the Apollo program is over. Why we are still stuck in this stagnation, let's go forward again

Offline spacetraveler

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 687
  • Atlanta, GA
  • Liked: 162
  • Likes Given: 26
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #287 on: 08/10/2020 02:41 pm »
With a very mature, DoD certified, human rated, and presumably significantly cheaper vehicle family losing to an unflown vehicle with engines behind schedule from an inexperienced supplier I canít help wondering if the SpaceX legal counsel is having a busy weekend. Protest coming?

SpaceX might have leapfrogged them in tech but Boeing/Lockmart still have superior lobbying.

Offline bulkmail

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 135
  • Liked: 58
  • Likes Given: 30
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #288 on: 08/11/2020 09:15 am »
There was massive Intel leak today with 20GB of source code and confidential files released. One of the interesting things leaked is this:
Quote
Binaries for Camera drivers Intel made for SpaceX

I don't have the files onhand, but maybe something like slightly customized RealSense camera drivers, for space use perhaps? Nothing fancy...

Per ZDNet article about the leak the leak includes "Binaries for Camera drivers Intel made for SpaceX".

In another thread (that went missing?) I asked whether it was known where SpaceX is using Intel cameras or drivers:
- on the ground for perimeter protection, etc. - I assume here they use off-the-shelf CCTV systems
- on the rockets for the launch livestreams - I assume here they use off-the-shelf cameras
- in manufacturing?
- for Falcon9/Dragon 'navigation' - like Autopilot?
- somewhere else?
- it's a mistake and drivers are actually for Tesla - earlier versions of Tesla Autopilot were using Intel/Mobileye hardware

Another poster responded (in the thread I can't find anymore) that maybe custom drivers were needed for the livestream cams due to US regulatory restrictions on what is allowed to be shown from orbit.

Offline Bananas_on_Mars

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 526
  • Liked: 430
  • Likes Given: 85
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #289 on: 08/11/2020 09:51 am »
There was massive Intel leak today with 20GB of source code and confidential files released. One of the interesting things leaked is this:
Quote
Binaries for Camera drivers Intel made for SpaceX

I don't have the files onhand, but maybe something like slightly customized RealSense camera drivers, for space use perhaps? Nothing fancy...

Per ZDNet article about the leak the leak includes "Binaries for Camera drivers Intel made for SpaceX".

In another thread (that went missing?) I asked whether it was known where SpaceX is using Intel cameras or drivers:
- on the ground for perimeter protection, etc. - I assume here they use off-the-shelf CCTV systems
- on the rockets for the launch livestreams - I assume here they use off-the-shelf cameras
- in manufacturing?
- for Falcon9/Dragon 'navigation' - like Autopilot?
- somewhere else?
- it's a mistake and drivers are actually for Tesla - earlier versions of Tesla Autopilot were using Intel/Mobileye hardware

Another poster responded (in the thread I can't find anymore) that maybe custom drivers were needed for the livestream cams due to US regulatory restrictions on what is allowed to be shown from orbit.

Startracker for Dragon would be my guess.

Offline Darkseraph

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 699
  • Liked: 459
  • Likes Given: 146
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #290 on: 08/11/2020 10:48 am »
https://twitter.com/GregScott_photo/status/1292799411161124864

Given on many returns the Falcon 9 ends up looking like this, painting it in a new black color scheme similar to electron would hide how messed up it looks! I don't know about you guys but if a airplane looked like that after a few flights it wouldn't psychologically inspire confidence in me to jump aboard. Repainting the entire booster would be costly and a pain so painting it black would avoid most of this.

Black also looks cool...
« Last Edit: 08/11/2020 10:51 am by Darkseraph »
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." R.P.Feynman

Online gongora

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8911
  • US
  • Liked: 11009
  • Likes Given: 4943
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #291 on: 08/11/2020 12:54 pm »
Another poster responded (in the thread I can't find anymore) that maybe custom drivers were needed for the livestream cams due to US regulatory restrictions on what is allowed to be shown from orbit.

Unless your custom camera driver has a well trained AI to know when it's looking at something it shouldn't, I really don't think that would be the reason.  Without any more information than "SpaceX had some cameras somewhere" I really don't see much point in random speculation.

Offline Zed_Noir

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4075
  • Canada
  • Liked: 1191
  • Likes Given: 1103
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #292 on: 08/11/2020 06:28 pm »
<snip>
Given on many returns the Falcon 9 ends up looking like this, painting it in a new black color scheme similar to electron would hide how messed up it looks! I don't know about you guys but if a airplane looked like that after a few flights it wouldn't psychologically inspire confidence in me to jump aboard. Repainting the entire booster would be costly and a pain so painting it black would avoid most of this.
<snip>

The Electron is actually mostly white at liftoff from the ice buildup on it's exterior.

Painting the Falcon 9 core black is a bad idea. IMO, the reason why SX painted the core mostly white is for thermal management of the propellants. To reduce the heating up of the super-cooled cryogenic propellants during propellant loading.


Offline llanitedave

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2270
  • Nevada Desert
  • Liked: 1520
  • Likes Given: 1981
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #293 on: 08/11/2020 08:05 pm »
<snip>
Given on many returns the Falcon 9 ends up looking like this, painting it in a new black color scheme similar to electron would hide how messed up it looks! I don't know about you guys but if a airplane looked like that after a few flights it wouldn't psychologically inspire confidence in me to jump aboard. Repainting the entire booster would be costly and a pain so painting it black would avoid most of this.
<snip>

The Electron is actually mostly white at liftoff from the ice buildup on it's exterior.

Painting the Falcon 9 core black is a bad idea. IMO, the reason why SX painted the core mostly white is for thermal management of the propellants. To reduce the heating up of the super-cooled cryogenic propellants during propellant loading.
But that function only works for the first flight.
"I've just abducted an alien -- now what?"

Online wannamoonbase

  • Elite Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4715
  • Denver, CO
    • U.S. Metric Association
  • Liked: 2425
  • Likes Given: 3151
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #294 on: 08/11/2020 08:20 pm »
<snip>
Given on many returns the Falcon 9 ends up looking like this, painting it in a new black color scheme similar to electron would hide how messed up it looks! I don't know about you guys but if a airplane looked like that after a few flights it wouldn't psychologically inspire confidence in me to jump aboard. Repainting the entire booster would be costly and a pain so painting it black would avoid most of this.
<snip>

The Electron is actually mostly white at liftoff from the ice buildup on it's exterior.

Painting the Falcon 9 core black is a bad idea. IMO, the reason why SX painted the core mostly white is for thermal management of the propellants. To reduce the heating up of the super-cooled cryogenic propellants during propellant loading.
But that function only works for the first flight.

I'm not against washing/cleaning the boosters.

I like the used look though.
Starship 2022, can't wait!!

Online TheRadicalModerate

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2724
  • Tampa, FL
  • Liked: 2010
  • Likes Given: 392
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #295 on: 08/12/2020 06:33 am »
I'm not against washing/cleaning the boosters.

I like the used look though.

I'm holding out for stone-washed Al-Li alloy.

Offline Tulse

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 546
  • Liked: 395
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #296 on: 08/12/2020 05:40 pm »
Are there any concerns around washing the boosters (e.g., water getting into places it shouldn't, and possibly freezing)? And are there any concerns on the other hand with large amounts of black soot buildup on the exterior (e.g., the colour absorbing too much heat in the sun or other thermal issues)?

Online whitelancer64

Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #297 on: 08/13/2020 02:31 pm »
<snip>
Given on many returns the Falcon 9 ends up looking like this, painting it in a new black color scheme similar to electron would hide how messed up it looks! I don't know about you guys but if a airplane looked like that after a few flights it wouldn't psychologically inspire confidence in me to jump aboard. Repainting the entire booster would be costly and a pain so painting it black would avoid most of this.
<snip>

The Electron is actually mostly white at liftoff from the ice buildup on it's exterior.

Painting the Falcon 9 core black is a bad idea. IMO, the reason why SX painted the core mostly white is for thermal management of the propellants. To reduce the heating up of the super-cooled cryogenic propellants during propellant loading.
But that function only works for the first flight.


It's a very thin layer of soot, just enough to look dirty. If the thermal characteristics were significantly adversly affected, they'd scrub it off. Way back in the day when they were first landing boosters, either Elon Musk or someone else at SpaceX said at some point the soot didn't add to the thermal load too much, and they only cleaned up small strips enough to do weld inspections.

I'm all nostalgic for 2016 / 2017 NSF now. Soot on the boosters was discussed extensively back then.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline macpacheco

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 888
  • Vitoria-ES-Brazil
  • Liked: 368
  • Likes Given: 2988
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #298 on: 08/15/2020 01:30 pm »
I think the soot is a badge of honor. Leave it in, unless it needs to be scrubbed for safety reasons.
"Hey I've been to hell and back a bunch of times".  ;D
Looking for companies doing great things for much more than money

Online yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14682
  • Liked: 5350
  • Likes Given: 2362
Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 15)
« Reply #299 on: 08/19/2020 09:56 pm »
Would seem fairly simple to extend the HIF by a few meters...

No need, that's what the New Vertical integration Mobile Tower is for.

Exactly. It took a few days for my sources to get back to me but they basically confirmed that the $316 million, for their first launch under phase 2 of NSSL, includes what most people are already suspecting: the total cost of constructing and certifying the MST. As well as funding for other one-off modifications and procurements to support the phase 2 NSSL missions.

Did your sources indicate whether it was a F9 or FH mission?

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement SkyTale Software GmbH
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0