Author Topic: Project "Harvest Moon"  (Read 6620 times)

Offline quickscan

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 21
  • Likes Given: 0
Project "Harvest Moon"
« on: 08/14/2018 10:40 pm »
This was a nearly forgotten page of Apollo history. 1971, the "Committee For the Future" pursued obtaining the 2 left-over Saturn 5s and launching 2 private missions to the moon.

See attached Wall Street Journal article.

I was the instigator of this project. Now at age 87 I think it should be acknowledged.

Online Kansan52

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1199
  • Hutchinson, KS
  • Liked: 388
  • Likes Given: 428
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #1 on: 08/14/2018 10:45 pm »
Thanks for the info.

More please. What are your recollections?

Offline speedevil

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3213
  • Fife
  • Liked: 1664
  • Likes Given: 1973
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #2 on: 08/14/2018 11:39 pm »
This would have been fascinating had it happened.

Offline Proponent

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5652
  • Liked: 1174
  • Likes Given: 713
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #3 on: 08/15/2018 12:46 am »
Although I am unable to recall where, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the backers of Harvest Moon had in mind getting the Apollo 15 crew to fly an Apollo H-class mission back to the landing site of Apollo 15 (which, of course, had been a J-class mission).

Offline quickscan

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 21
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #4 on: 08/15/2018 01:49 am »
I have more documentation that would be of historical interest. Could post it here, but what I really was hoping for was a Wikipedia page. Have made some minor edits in the past, but creating a whole new page is beyond me.

Any "mentors" out there? g.

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11592
  • Liked: 3145
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #5 on: 08/15/2018 02:39 am »
I have more documentation that would be of historical interest. Could post it here, but what I really was hoping for was a Wikipedia page. Have made some minor edits in the past, but creating a whole new page is beyond me.

Any "mentors" out there? g.

Scan it, send it to me. I'll write a Space Review article about it. Once it's covered in an article, somebody can create a Wikipedia entry, which is easier to do when you can reference an internet article.

Offline quickscan

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 21
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #6 on: 08/15/2018 12:19 pm »
Congressman "Tiger' Teague entered a Congressional Resolution asking NASA to cooperate with the Committee For the Future. (ATTACHED)

More to come. g.

Offline quickscan

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 21
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #7 on: 08/15/2018 12:36 pm »
As a side-bar, I produced several space documentaries including "Log of Apollo 7."
You can find it on YouTube channel, George Van Valkenburg.


Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2594
  • Liked: 477
  • Likes Given: 1096
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #8 on: 08/15/2018 03:35 pm »
Wow. My mind is completely blown. The exact kind of people that make this forum such a unique place on the Internet.

I ran across this project a while back, and I did some searches about it (I'm writing fiction in my free time). Information is pretty scarce, hence THIS is too good to be true.

In my view project Harvest Moon is rather unique as far as space history goes. An atempt at a private Apollo mission to try and rescue that program, that was a bold move even if probably very difficult. It had to be tried ! And that was 40 years before Golden Spike (what happened to them, anyway ?), 30 years before SpaceX, and 10 years before early efforts to get a private Space Shuttle off the pad.

I have some questions...

Do you remember Barbara Marx Hubbard involvment ?

In a later biography called "The hunger of Eve" she told she had met von Braun and he had told her about growing crystalls aboard Skylab. She didn't found the idea exciting enough.
As said in another post, Olin Teague supported the project in Congress but it died there.

Wasn't Krafft Ehricke involved at some point ? 

How did Project Harvest Moon evolved into Mankind One ?

https://www.wired.com/2012/03/destination-mankind-1972/

As for a Wikipedia page, perhaps not an entirely new one, but Project Harvest Moon deserves to be mentionned, either as "private spaceflight" or "Apollo" entry (I'd prefer the later, as Wikipedia private spaceflight entry is a mess).
Or maybe here >  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_private_spaceflight

Your venture was some years before OTRAG, although very different.
« Last Edit: 08/15/2018 03:48 pm by Archibald »
...you have been found guilty by the elders of the forum of a (imaginary) vendetta against Saint Elon - BLAAASPHEMER !

Offline quickscan

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 21
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #9 on: 08/15/2018 10:16 pm »
Thanks Archibald
It is good to be remembered. Yes, Barbara was the force behind the Committee For the future. She mentions me in "The Hunger of Eve." Not sure what Mankind One was. My memory is that the Committee put Harvest Moon in the 'too hard' basket and launched the talkfest called Syncon.
I have 3 significant documents relating to your questions about history. Not sure I can attach them all. Maybe one at a time? g.

Offline Wicky

  • Member
  • Posts: 57
  • Liked: 12
  • Likes Given: 57
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #10 on: 08/16/2018 10:32 am »
Fascinating - Were they too optimistic on the financial value of the moon rocks they hoped to sell which mainly underpinned the business case of the project?

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2594
  • Liked: 477
  • Likes Given: 1096
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #11 on: 08/16/2018 10:58 am »
Seconded. Fill a lot of gaps in the few thing I found in my search.

Quote
Thanks Archibald - It is good to be remembered.

You are welcome. Projct Harvest Moon is interesting in the sense that, in a lot of pre-Apollo, 50's sci-fi stories, conquest of the Moon was made by some private companies or individual, the ones who build the first piloted lunar ships. Typical: Heinlein - The man who sold the Moon.
Then Apollo happened thanks to the governement. Project Harvest Moon was kind of private sector trying to enter the project.

Overall, Project Harvest Moon would made a good basis for a hard sci-fi novel, some kind of alternate history.
Think James Michener Space, or more recently, Allen Steele. Or Martin Caidin Marooned. Or, the horror way, that movie - Apollo 18
« Last Edit: 08/16/2018 10:59 am by Archibald »
...you have been found guilty by the elders of the forum of a (imaginary) vendetta against Saint Elon - BLAAASPHEMER !

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2594
  • Liked: 477
  • Likes Given: 1096
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #12 on: 08/18/2018 06:06 am »
I red the linked documents. Look at scan number 3: one of the concepts was FIELD - plants to be grown on the lunar surface, protected by a 20ft wide mylar dome.
By some amusing / astonishing coincidence, Elon Musk started SpaceX on a very similar idea in 2001 (except on Mars !).
 He wanted to land a plastic dome on the surface, protecting plants growing on the regolith. I can't remember the exact details, but I think he submitted or borrowed the idea from Zubrin Mars Society before they parted ways. Then Musk realized existing rockets were unaffordable, and started SpaceX. The irony was SpaceX ultimately prevailed over the initial idea.

Both projects are based on a similar idea: to create a media frenzy and impress Joe-six-pack by showing that earth plants can be grown on another planetary body.

« Last Edit: 08/18/2018 06:11 am by Archibald »
...you have been found guilty by the elders of the forum of a (imaginary) vendetta against Saint Elon - BLAAASPHEMER !

Offline anobium625

  • Member
  • Posts: 3
  • Eastern Kentucky
  • Liked: 4
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #13 on: 08/20/2018 11:46 pm »
I saw your request for an account of Profect Harvest Moon in the Wikipedia Teahouse (which I suggest you look at) and wrote a short article based principally upon US newspaper accounts. I just found this thread with the Wall Street Journal article, the details of the Harvest Moon experiments, and Olin Teague's resolution. I will include citations to them in what I have already written. Another Wiki editor has agreed to review and revise my present draft. I don't plan to submit the draft for review until I have read Barbara Marx Hubbard's biography, which is coming in the mail.
I have one question. One of the newspaper articles said that a "newspaper columnist" was a member of the Committee for the Future. Could you identify him/her, since membership may have biased his/her article(s).

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2594
  • Liked: 477
  • Likes Given: 1096
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #14 on: 08/21/2018 03:40 pm »
I saw your request for an account of Profect Harvest Moon in the Wikipedia Teahouse (which I suggest you look at) and wrote a short article based principally upon US newspaper accounts. I just found this thread with the Wall Street Journal article, the details of the Harvest Moon experiments, and Olin Teague's resolution. I will include citations to them in what I have already written. Another Wiki editor has agreed to review and revise my present draft. I don't plan to submit the draft for review until I have read Barbara Marx Hubbard's biography, which is coming in the mail.
I have one question. One of the newspaper articles said that a "newspaper columnist" was a member of the Committee for the Future. Could you identify him/her, since membership may have biased his/her article(s).

If a wikipedia page is ever created, I'll be happy to contribute, but I need a "sherpa" to guide me across Wiki intricacies (so that my entry would not be deleted for whatever reasons).
...you have been found guilty by the elders of the forum of a (imaginary) vendetta against Saint Elon - BLAAASPHEMER !

Online Lar

  • Fan boy at large
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11356
  • Saw Gemini live on TV
  • A large LEGO storage facility ... in Michigan
  • Liked: 8405
  • Likes Given: 6736
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #15 on: 08/21/2018 03:50 pm »
I saw your request for an account of Profect Harvest Moon in the Wikipedia Teahouse (which I suggest you look at) and wrote a short article based principally upon US newspaper accounts. I just found this thread with the Wall Street Journal article, the details of the Harvest Moon experiments, and Olin Teague's resolution. I will include citations to them in what I have already written. Another Wiki editor has agreed to review and revise my present draft. I don't plan to submit the draft for review until I have read Barbara Marx Hubbard's biography, which is coming in the mail.
I have one question. One of the newspaper articles said that a "newspaper columnist" was a member of the Committee for the Future. Could you identify him/her, since membership may have biased his/her article(s).

If a wikipedia page is ever created, I'll be happy to contribute, but I need a "sherpa" to guide me across Wiki intricacies (so that my entry would not be deleted for whatever reasons).

There are some good pages that deal with the process and give good advice. But even finding them can be a bit of a challenge for new editors.

I'm an admin on English Wikipedia. Basically for non biographical things, stick to neutral tone and only report things you can source (please actually add references) and you'll be fine. This is a non biographical thing.  If you start, reach out and I'll take a look. Involving people from the appropriate WikiProject will help too.

Please provide links to the teahouse request and other relevant things if you all would. Best to link to a specific diff so if the page changes you can still find it. (use the article history to find the diff)
« Last Edit: 08/21/2018 03:51 pm by Lar »
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline quickscan

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 21
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #16 on: 08/21/2018 09:53 pm »
I would be interested in anything you have posted.
Original "Committee For the Future" members attached.

Offline anobium625

  • Member
  • Posts: 3
  • Eastern Kentucky
  • Liked: 4
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #17 on: 08/22/2018 01:54 am »
If you go to any Wikipedia page, the left hand column has the word "Help". Click on that and look for the "Teahouse." Click on Teahouse and you'll find a report of my status on the Harvest Moon article. Briefly, another Wiki editor is going to review it for Wiki technicalities and make changes as necessary. I would also like to read Barbara Marx Hubbard's biography in hopes of finding related topics that I can look up. Wiki doesn't permit original research, so whatever is on the Wiki page needs valid citations from public sources. Considering that I had never heard of Harvest Moon and have only been at it for a little over a week, I've made great progress. I should have a draft article very soon, but it will take Wiki as much as six weeks to review it and decide if it is "notable" enough for a Wiki article. But it is in the works.

Offline quickscan

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 21
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #18 on: 08/22/2018 04:39 am »
If you are in personal contact with Barbara, give her my regards. g.

Offline anobium625

  • Member
  • Posts: 3
  • Eastern Kentucky
  • Liked: 4
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #19 on: 08/22/2018 05:56 pm »
I have never met Barbara or anyone else associated with Harvest Moon. I'm just a relatively new Wiki editor looking for places to help, and Harvest Moon needed an editor.  :)

Online Lar

  • Fan boy at large
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11356
  • Saw Gemini live on TV
  • A large LEGO storage facility ... in Michigan
  • Liked: 8405
  • Likes Given: 6736
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #20 on: 08/22/2018 08:43 pm »
If you go to any Wikipedia page, the left hand column has the word "Help". Click on that and look for the "Teahouse." Click on Teahouse and you'll find a report of my status on the Harvest Moon article. Briefly, another Wiki editor is going to review it for Wiki technicalities and make changes as necessary. I would also like to read Barbara Marx Hubbard's biography in hopes of finding related topics that I can look up. Wiki doesn't permit original research, so whatever is on the Wiki page needs valid citations from public sources. Considering that I had never heard of Harvest Moon and have only been at it for a little over a week, I've made great progress. I should have a draft article very soon, but it will take Wiki as much as six weeks to review it and decide if it is "notable" enough for a Wiki article. But it is in the works.

Please message me (on Wiki, to my User talk page) with a link to your draft, I would love to see it. I am prepared, just from it being written up in the WSJ, to argue for notability as is. I'm an admin there, and my userID is "Lar"  Here's a link to my user and talk pages on english wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Lar
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline quickscan

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 21
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #21 on: 08/22/2018 10:48 pm »
This should link to Anobium625/sandbox page for any bloggers interested in editing Wikipedia.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Anobium625/sandbox

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2594
  • Liked: 477
  • Likes Given: 1096
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #22 on: 08/23/2018 05:33 am »
Excellent work, really ! There is a sidenote to that story, which is Mankind One.

https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/barbara-marx-hubbard-and-origins-pro-space-movement-1970s

http://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/2017/04/geosynchronous-drift-krafft-ehrickes.html

Now if you look at Quickscan list of CFF documents, you'll see that Ehricke was among them.

Mankind One was proposed in May 1972, right between Teague 9 march 1972 congressional support and NASA July 18, 1972 denial.

Also, General Bleimayer had played an important role on the cancelled MOL / KH-10 manned spysat. The CFF roaster was quite impressive.

Barbara Marx Hubbard had gatherings called SYNCON, and Whiteside aide was Alan Ladwig who later went to NASA HQ in 1980 and pushed CFF like outreach projects through the shuttle (such as poor Mc Auliffe Teacher in space)

More on the Ladwig conexction later.
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/aero/events/tgir/2003/speakers03/ladwig.htm


« Last Edit: 08/23/2018 05:36 am by Archibald »
...you have been found guilty by the elders of the forum of a (imaginary) vendetta against Saint Elon - BLAAASPHEMER !

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2594
  • Liked: 477
  • Likes Given: 1096
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #23 on: 08/23/2018 11:11 am »
http://articles.latimes.com/1985-02-06/news/vw-4525_1_campaign-managers/2

It is perhaps one of the more remarquable legacies  of Project Harvest Moon and Barbara Marx Hubbard space activism. Alan Ladwig probably understood, in 1972, that somebody had to be part of NASA to get the space agency onboard such projects. Ladwig did exactly that, from 1980 onwards.

Quote
Between 1981 to 1990, he held a variety of positions at NASA Headquarters, including Manager of the Space Flight Participant Program, Director of Special Projects for the Office of Exploration, and Manager of the Shuttle Student Involvement Program. He also served as the Assistant to the Director of the Administrator's Long-Range Planning Task Force that produced the report, Leadership and America's Future in Space (The Ride Report).

Ladwig pioneered NASA outreach toward students and secondary schools, flying experiments aboard the Shuttle. Later the next logical step was to fly a teacher. It is quite heartbreaking that Christa McAuliffe died like this; at least Barbara Morgan carried on, become an astronaut, and finally flew in space.
« Last Edit: 08/23/2018 11:13 am by Archibald »
...you have been found guilty by the elders of the forum of a (imaginary) vendetta against Saint Elon - BLAAASPHEMER !

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2594
  • Liked: 477
  • Likes Given: 1096
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #24 on: 08/26/2018 12:04 pm »
Dang, looks like Richard Hoagland was involved in the project. He actually provided some valuable hindsight and advice, so it seems it happened before he turned completely bonkers with that face-on-Mars siliness B.S.
I still wonder what happened to him. It is not the first time I find his name associed to non-whacky proposals (look at Arthur Clarke 2010 postface. Here's come Richiiiie ! He is mentionned as an advisor to Clarke, damn it)
He really went over the top in the mid-to-late 70's, God only knows the why and how it happened. Did space lizzards washed and ate his brain circa 1977 ?  :o 
I often wonder if his ascent in craziness is related to Capricorn One. Maybe he saw the movie and cynically reasonned "conspiracies sell far better that serious stuff." Or maybe he really went nut rather than just cynical, perhaps chocking on popcorn ?

It is a bit like Brian O'Leary unfortunate trajectory, at least O'Leary was not that insane, and had some valid excuses for his late drift into esoterics and fringe science.
« Last Edit: 08/26/2018 12:17 pm by Archibald »
...you have been found guilty by the elders of the forum of a (imaginary) vendetta against Saint Elon - BLAAASPHEMER !

Offline Phil Stooke

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 544
  • Canada
  • Liked: 362
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #25 on: 08/27/2018 02:42 am »
Loving this Harvest Moon history but must comment on Richard Hoagland. 

He was relatively serious at first, and wrote articles as a science journalist around the time of the Voyager flybys of Saturn.  But this was about the time of the Reagan-era OMB expressing a wish to shut down planetary exploration altogether - this was under David Stockman.  What follows is my interpretation of what happened. 

Hoagland conceived the idea that the public would only get behind space if there were big stories in the media, not just plain old science.   His first step was an article about a weird power source in Saturn's rings which would power humanity for ever if only one of the superpowers [there used to be two of them] could get to it first.  This was based on a poorly-understood radio emission detected by Voyager from or modulated by the rings.  It was a real phenomenon but he constructed a bizarre story out of it, trying to get public and/or congressional support behind planetary exploration.  I don't have a reference to that story, though I kept it for many years, but maybe someone can find it.  The date would be about 1981.

After that he got into the face on Mars and other ideas about aliens on Mars and the Moon, using the power of conspiracy theories - we can see today even more than then how powerful they can be.  The original purpose was to get the public behind a return to Mars, maybe even with people, at a time when Viking was ending with no successor in sight.  Whip up the public and let them push Congress. 

I have argued publically before that Hoagland started this nonsense for well-meaning reasons.  But as others have learned or are now re-learning,  he found that he was now trapped in the lies.  He couldn't get out of it, and also there was the little matter of earning a living - he couldn't go back to science or science journalism.  But the lecture circuit, books, and later websites brought him an income which he now had to keep going.  He never actually believed any of it, in my view.  Many others in the aliens on Mars field also don't believe it - all that crap about buildings seen in orbital images (at the limit of resolution, of course) or sasquatches on Mars in Curiosity images - it's all from people who don't believe it, but can make money off it with views of a web page.  That's why it is a waste of time arguing with them about it.
 

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11592
  • Liked: 3145
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #26 on: 08/27/2018 04:21 am »
He never actually believed any of it, in my view.  Many others in the aliens on Mars field also don't believe it - all that crap about buildings seen in orbital images (at the limit of resolution, of course) or sasquatches on Mars in Curiosity images - it's all from people who don't believe it, but can make money off it with views of a web page.  That's why it is a waste of time arguing with them about it. 

I saw him at an event many years ago. I think his wackiness is genuine, not an act.

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1022/1

« Last Edit: 08/27/2018 11:39 am by Blackstar »

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2594
  • Liked: 477
  • Likes Given: 1096
Re: Project "Harvest Moon"
« Reply #27 on: 08/27/2018 05:26 am »
Maybe he is just a good actor at playing a whacko. Except the frontier between acting and real world is more and more blurred as time goes by, and he turned whacko all the time.

Phil Stooke: I read your article about Hog-land credentials. He really took an arrow in the knee - or in the brain - circa 1981.
« Last Edit: 08/27/2018 04:11 pm by Archibald »
...you have been found guilty by the elders of the forum of a (imaginary) vendetta against Saint Elon - BLAAASPHEMER !