In the picture from inside the building at 39A: assuming the more or less rectangular panel on the side of the Dragon is the hatch, there doesn't appear to be any method for opening it from the outside. There is a smaller square panel in the center right side of the big panel, that appears to be held on by 4 bolts. Is that a cover for the handle to open the hatch? Or is this not the hatch at all but some other cover and the hatch is on the other side of the Dragon? Or is it a temporary hatch for DM-1 and the real hatch will be installed on DM-2?I think, given the lessons of Apollo 1, it is very important to have a hatch that can be opened quickly from either the inside or the outside.(Edited for clarity)
Sorry to interrupt this propulsive landing / NASA money vs SpaceX / dead horse beating thread by asking about an update on Dragon 2. So, can someone explain the white covers that are over the black solar cells on the Trunk as seen in a photo a few posts up? Protective until shortly before launch, or will be there at launch and discarded sometime after Max-Q? Or is one side (180 degrees) covered in solar cells and the other not?
Quote from: georgegassaway on 12/21/2018 09:36 pmSorry to interrupt this propulsive landing / NASA money vs SpaceX / dead horse beating thread by asking about an update on Dragon 2. So, can someone explain the white covers that are over the black solar cells on the Trunk as seen in a photo a few posts up? Protective until shortly before launch, or will be there at launch and discarded sometime after Max-Q? Or is one side (180 degrees) covered in solar cells and the other not?The white half of the trunk are radiators.
Quote from: whitelancer64 on 12/21/2018 09:43 pmQuote from: georgegassaway on 12/21/2018 09:36 pmSorry to interrupt this propulsive landing / NASA money vs SpaceX / dead horse beating thread by asking about an update on Dragon 2. So, can someone explain the white covers that are over the black solar cells on the Trunk as seen in a photo a few posts up? Protective until shortly before launch, or will be there at launch and discarded sometime after Max-Q? Or is one side (180 degrees) covered in solar cells and the other not?The white half of the trunk are radiators. And the black half (obviously) are solar cells.I don't add this comment to try and be funny, but to ask a specific question.Apollo was rotated on its longitudinal axis during its missions to prevent overheating of any one side.Will Dragon be similarly rotated for the same reason?And if so how will this affect the environmental systems when the radiators are facing the sun?
The ISS has gone for decades without rolling, staying mostly in a fixed Local Vertical Local Horizontal (LVLH) orientation.
Apollo was rotated on its longitudinal axis during its missions to prevent overheating of any one side.
>Which does bring up the question of why SpaceX went with the body mounted solar cells, and didn't just add four fins to the Cargo Dragon trunk. .
Quote from: Comga on 12/21/2018 11:04 pm>Which does bring up the question of why SpaceX went with the body mounted solar cells, and didn't just add four fins to the Cargo Dragon trunk. .I would assume to eliminate the numerous "solar wing" deployment mechanisms and events, starting with the covers. KISS.
Quote from: whitelancer64 on 12/21/2018 03:41 pmQuote from: Comga on 12/21/2018 03:35 pmSo let's start a different unanswerable debate about Dragon 2Please point out corrections where these assumptions are wrong.SpaceX is building a new Dragon 2 for each manned/crewed flight to the ISS under Commercial Crew.Eventually NASA will allow these to fly, next spring, next fall, before Boeing's CST-100, after Boeing, whatever.They plan on refurbishing capsules and reusing them for CRS-II cargo flights.SpaceX may do one crew rotation per year, and perhaps three cargo flights, as one of three providers, four if we count the modest amount of cargo that can ride with the four passengers on CST-100.Because Dragon is never flown as expendable, SpaceX will start accumulating used Dragons.I would presume that BFS will take a bit longer than some of Musk's predictions to get built, work out the ground system, fly low altitude, low speed tests, build to high speed and altitude, practice the acrobatics of converting from reentry to landing, and fly some test orbits, which will be needed before the DearMoon flight.Given they will have used first stages and capsules complete with proven life support systems, the marginal cost of an independent crew flight to orbit is mostly the second stage and trunk. This is not trivial, but not huge on the scale of SpaceX projects, or even the Boring Company projects.Why wouldn't someone try to arrange a private flight to LEO?Why wouldn't SpaceX agree to make that happen?NASA will have "real astronauts" doing Real Astronaut Stuff (R) on the real space station, so they might not care.SpaceX can "walk and chew gum at the same time". I think this will indeed happen, perhaps in 2021 or 2022.I also hope it does.SpaceX's attitude has generally been, "if someone is willing to pay us, we'll do it," so I would say such a tourist flight(s) would be plausible. That said, they will probably also be re-using crew dragons for flights to Bigelow's space station, whenever they get around to launching it.Skip the second stage for an interesting suborbital flight. Only throwing away the trunk. Should be relatively inexpensive with reusable booster and capsule.
Quote from: Comga on 12/21/2018 03:35 pmSo let's start a different unanswerable debate about Dragon 2Please point out corrections where these assumptions are wrong.SpaceX is building a new Dragon 2 for each manned/crewed flight to the ISS under Commercial Crew.Eventually NASA will allow these to fly, next spring, next fall, before Boeing's CST-100, after Boeing, whatever.They plan on refurbishing capsules and reusing them for CRS-II cargo flights.SpaceX may do one crew rotation per year, and perhaps three cargo flights, as one of three providers, four if we count the modest amount of cargo that can ride with the four passengers on CST-100.Because Dragon is never flown as expendable, SpaceX will start accumulating used Dragons.I would presume that BFS will take a bit longer than some of Musk's predictions to get built, work out the ground system, fly low altitude, low speed tests, build to high speed and altitude, practice the acrobatics of converting from reentry to landing, and fly some test orbits, which will be needed before the DearMoon flight.Given they will have used first stages and capsules complete with proven life support systems, the marginal cost of an independent crew flight to orbit is mostly the second stage and trunk. This is not trivial, but not huge on the scale of SpaceX projects, or even the Boring Company projects.Why wouldn't someone try to arrange a private flight to LEO?Why wouldn't SpaceX agree to make that happen?NASA will have "real astronauts" doing Real Astronaut Stuff (R) on the real space station, so they might not care.SpaceX can "walk and chew gum at the same time". I think this will indeed happen, perhaps in 2021 or 2022.I also hope it does.SpaceX's attitude has generally been, "if someone is willing to pay us, we'll do it," so I would say such a tourist flight(s) would be plausible. That said, they will probably also be re-using crew dragons for flights to Bigelow's space station, whenever they get around to launching it.
So let's start a different unanswerable debate about Dragon 2Please point out corrections where these assumptions are wrong.SpaceX is building a new Dragon 2 for each manned/crewed flight to the ISS under Commercial Crew.Eventually NASA will allow these to fly, next spring, next fall, before Boeing's CST-100, after Boeing, whatever.They plan on refurbishing capsules and reusing them for CRS-II cargo flights.SpaceX may do one crew rotation per year, and perhaps three cargo flights, as one of three providers, four if we count the modest amount of cargo that can ride with the four passengers on CST-100.Because Dragon is never flown as expendable, SpaceX will start accumulating used Dragons.I would presume that BFS will take a bit longer than some of Musk's predictions to get built, work out the ground system, fly low altitude, low speed tests, build to high speed and altitude, practice the acrobatics of converting from reentry to landing, and fly some test orbits, which will be needed before the DearMoon flight.Given they will have used first stages and capsules complete with proven life support systems, the marginal cost of an independent crew flight to orbit is mostly the second stage and trunk. This is not trivial, but not huge on the scale of SpaceX projects, or even the Boring Company projects.Why wouldn't someone try to arrange a private flight to LEO?Why wouldn't SpaceX agree to make that happen?NASA will have "real astronauts" doing Real Astronaut Stuff (R) on the real space station, so they might not care.SpaceX can "walk and chew gum at the same time". I think this will indeed happen, perhaps in 2021 or 2022.I also hope it does.
Quote from: RonM on 12/21/2018 04:49 pmQuote from: whitelancer64 on 12/21/2018 03:41 pmQuote from: Comga on 12/21/2018 03:35 pmSo let's start a different unanswerable debate about Dragon 2Please point out corrections where these assumptions are wrong.SpaceX is building a new Dragon 2 for each manned/crewed flight to the ISS under Commercial Crew.Eventually NASA will allow these to fly, next spring, next fall, before Boeing's CST-100, after Boeing, whatever.They plan on refurbishing capsules and reusing them for CRS-II cargo flights.SpaceX may do one crew rotation per year, and perhaps three cargo flights, as one of three providers, four if we count the modest amount of cargo that can ride with the four passengers on CST-100.Because Dragon is never flown as expendable, SpaceX will start accumulating used Dragons.I would presume that BFS will take a bit longer than some of Musk's predictions to get built, work out the ground system, fly low altitude, low speed tests, build to high speed and altitude, practice the acrobatics of converting from reentry to landing, and fly some test orbits, which will be needed before the DearMoon flight.Given they will have used first stages and capsules complete with proven life support systems, the marginal cost of an independent crew flight to orbit is mostly the second stage and trunk. This is not trivial, but not huge on the scale of SpaceX projects, or even the Boring Company projects.Why wouldn't someone try to arrange a private flight to LEO?Why wouldn't SpaceX agree to make that happen?NASA will have "real astronauts" doing Real Astronaut Stuff (R) on the real space station, so they might not care.SpaceX can "walk and chew gum at the same time". I think this will indeed happen, perhaps in 2021 or 2022.I also hope it does.SpaceX's attitude has generally been, "if someone is willing to pay us, we'll do it," so I would say such a tourist flight(s) would be plausible. That said, they will probably also be re-using crew dragons for flights to Bigelow's space station, whenever they get around to launching it.Skip the second stage for an interesting suborbital flight. Only throwing away the trunk. Should be relatively inexpensive with reusable booster and capsule.If the Dragon is out of the atmosphere does it need a trunk at all? Attached the Dragon to a modified intrastage fairing directly. Actively stablized the Dragon for the short time aloft with the Dracos.Of course you might need down range recovery assets.
And if so how will this affect the environmental systems when the radiators are facing the sun?
Quote from: clongton on 12/21/2018 10:36 pmAnd if so how will this affect the environmental systems when the radiators are facing the sun?The radiators should still work when facing the sun. Presumably, the paint they use is the type that is white (reflective) in the visible, so absorbs little radiation from the sun. But it's black in the infra-red, so it can still radiate heat. See, for example Spacecraft Thermal Control Systems, page 11.
Quote from: clongton on 12/21/2018 10:36 pmQuote from: whitelancer64 on 12/21/2018 09:43 pmQuote from: georgegassaway on 12/21/2018 09:36 pmSorry to interrupt this propulsive landing / NASA money vs SpaceX / dead horse beating thread by asking about an update on Dragon 2. So, can someone explain the white covers that are over the black solar cells on the Trunk as seen in a photo a few posts up? Protective until shortly before launch, or will be there at launch and discarded sometime after Max-Q? Or is one side (180 degrees) covered in solar cells and the other not?The white half of the trunk are radiators. And the black half (obviously) are solar cells.I don't add this comment to try and be funny, but to ask a specific question.Apollo was rotated on its longitudinal axis during its missions to prevent overheating of any one side.Will Dragon be similarly rotated for the same reason?And if so how will this affect the environmental systems when the radiators are facing the sun?It's pretty unlikely SpaceX will replicate the "barbeque roll" for thermal equalization, but they probably don't have to.I think the roll was done transiting between LEO and lunar orbit or on the return trip, where there were extended periods of continuous sunlight.The Dragon should remain in LEO, particularly now that all deep space missions are planned with BFS. The ISS has gone for decades without rolling, staying mostly in a fixed Local Vertical Local Horizontal (LVLH) orientation.Dragon couldn't do a roll when docked to the ISS for six months. It has to be able to handle full sunlight for 45 minutes, and longer at times of high beta angles.
Quote from: clongton on 12/21/2018 10:36 pmApollo was rotated on its longitudinal axis during its missions to prevent overheating of any one side.But not when docked to Skylab.
Since there doesn't appear to be a thread for the Dragon-2 DM1 mission (yet), is this still on schedule for NASA's target of January 7th (2019) launch?
If the Dragon is out of the atmosphere does it need a trunk at all?
